Sanrenmu 7010 vs CRKT Drifter

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First time poster here. Maybe the wrong thread to start out in but I thought some of you might be interested in someone's point of view who's new to knives.

When I decided I wanted to get an EDC knife a few months back I started doing some research into as many different folding knives as I could find. Of course, early on I came across CRK and was more than impressed with the apparent workmanship and quality put into his knives. At some point later I saw the Sanrenmu 710/7010 but it didn't occur to me that it was meant as a rip off of a Sebenza, I just thought it looked kind of plain and a bit cheap & ugly with whatever they did to the grip on the handle. It was only later that I read about the controversy on the forums with side by side pictures that I saw some design cues the 710's took from the Sebenza, but there's other knives out there that I would have said shared a stronger resemblance to the Sebenza than the Sanrenmu.

This is not meant as a defence of Sanrenmu's business practices like ripping off the axis lock, I don't condone that in the least, I just thought you might be interested in the perspective of someone who saw both before knowing anything about the controversy over resemblance.
 
The last three or four knives that you have posted about liking are either what I consider a ripoff of another maker's knife or made by a company that produces what I consider ripoffs of other maker's knives. I'm assuming that you don't agree with my definition of a ripoff. I'm OK with that. You don't seem to be. It's funny to me that you get up on your high horse when other people buy knives that don't meet your standard yet you don't have a problem buying knives that don't meet my standard. I'm going to go ahead and assume that you don't care that these knives don't meet my standard, so the question is why would anybody care which knives meet your standard? You claim that there's no grey area, but that's a ridiculous claim unless you're going to hold yourself to the highest possible standard. You simply aren't doing that. I'm OK with that, but are you? Your previous posts seem to indicate that you're not.
 
Cory Hess said:
The last three or four knives that you have posted about liking are either what I consider a ripoff of another maker's knife or made by a company that produces what I consider ripoffs of other maker's knives.
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Care to explain?
 
Cory Hess said:
The last three or four knives that you have posted about liking are either what I consider a ripoff of another maker's knife or made by a company that produces what I consider ripoffs of other maker's knives. I'm assuming that you don't agree with my definition of a ripoff. I'm OK with that. You don't seem to be. It's funny to me that you get up on your high horse when other people buy knives that don't meet your standard yet you don't have a problem buying knives that don't meet my standard. I'm going to go ahead and assume that you don't care that these knives don't meet my standard, so the question is why would anybody care which knives meet your standard? You claim that there's no grey area, but that's a ridiculous claim unless you're going to hold yourself to the highest possible standard. You simply aren't doing that. I'm OK with that, but are you? Your previous posts seem to indicate that you're not.
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You care. So be specific.
 
Mo2 said:
a majority of people for a long long time have been calling it "The Poor Man's Sebenza" its not an exact clone like others do. it still is replicated in the style of the sebenza for profit. it does sell alot because people want a sebenza and think its the same thing. since CRK dont make an affordable version, is that okay for someone to steal the design on make an affordable version instead? NO

here's Nicks take on it, tl;dr dont buy because its a rip off design. stealing is not cool.

https://youtu.be/BNIuvKwTE5c?t=4m3s
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I dont understand how someone can act like they know what another person is thinking. Especially when they are talking about products they admittedly dont buy and have no real experience with. And who cares what nick thinks. Its not like if he says it it becomes a fact. I honestly dont think anyone is buying a sanrenmu and thinking its the same thing as a sebenza. Just like no one bought a fiero with the ferrari body kit and thought it was a real ferrari.
 
marcinek said:
But for over 2.5 inches, you would not pay more than $100 and would prefer to buy a....how to put it..."tribute" knife. That was pretty clear.
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Weird that you always seem to take this subject personally, and apply your morals to others...

I guess I don't get it.
 
Perhaps high-quality Chinese clones will spur domestic manufacturers to step up the innovation game. Possibly lower their prices?

I see nothing wrong with this. Look at the big picture, the long game.

Put your hollow pride away...it's not like you designed these knives...
 
W. Anderson said:
Perhaps high-quality Chinese clones will spur domestic manufacturers to step up the innovation game. Possibly lower their prices?

I see nothing wrong with this. Look at the big picture, the long game.

Put your hollow pride away...it's not like you designed these knives...
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Hollow pride. Nice one. Not an insult we see a lot around here.
 
W. Anderson said:
Perhaps high-quality Chinese clones will spur domestic manufacturers to step up the innovation game.
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You've got it exactly backwards if you think clones are going to generate innovation. Patents and the profit protection they give to to creators exist solely to spur innovation and have done so for millenia. That's not an exaggeration.

EDIT: If you were really concerned with the long game, you'd never support buying clones that were still under a patent protection of reasonable length.

EDIT2: By the way, at least in principle, the Chinese government agrees. They both issue patents themselves and are signatories to international patent-protection agreements.
 
I respectfully disagree.

With the proliferation of technology and instant sharing of information, I believe that in order to stay relevant, designers will have to try new things. The world economy is very different that it was 30 years ago.
 
W. Anderson said:
I respectfully disagree.

With the proliferation of technology and instant sharing of information, I believe that in order to stay relevant, designers will have to try new things. The world economy is very different that it was 30 years ago.
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Try new things like copy old designs?
 
I dont see any patent or trademark infringement going on with the sanrenmu. But its being used as a debate point.
 
Maybe if we were a communist nation.

I'm not saying that I morally condone ripping other people's ideas off. I'm also not saying I'd ever buy a clone. I'm just saying that I beleive domestic designers are going to come up with some creative stuff to compete with the higher end Chinese stuff as the clones and even OEM designs become more popular over here.

We'll see, because the clones are here to stay. And China has efficient, advanced manufacturing techniques. We saw this happen with electronics.

Edit: I mean to quote craytab here.
 
Armadew said:
Care to explain?
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Not specifically about your knives. I'm glad that you like them. I can give a specific example from my own knives, and maybe you can apply it to knives that you like and carry.

I recently owned a Spyderco Manix 2. It's a great knife, and in fact is the knife that made me give modern folders a second chance. At the same time, I consider it a clone to a degree. The CBB lock that Spyderco puts on that knife is an obvious copy of the Benchmade Axis lock in my eyes. I know that many here justify this, and I'm OK with that. If they're happy with their Spydercos then I'm happy for them. It's just not for me. I ended up giving the knife away and don't have any interest in getting another Spyderco with the CBB lock. I am looking forward to the left-handed PM2 that they're coming out with, though. I'm not writing off the company as a whole because I don't agree with their decision on one knife. In fact, the knife that I consider a copy increased my respect for their products, as before that I had only handled Enduras and Delicas and the Manix 2 seemed to be a superior knife to me.

I hold similar beliefs about many ZT knives. They seem like great knives, and I'm happy that so many people can get such joy out of them. However, many of their patterns look like slightly modified copies of other knives to me. I don't wish them ill or think less of people that buy and carry ZT knives. I just have yet to see one that trips my trigger. Maybe they'll come out with something that is original enough for me to have an interest in. I doubt it though, and kind of hope that they don't. They have a good business model that's making them lots of money and lots of fans. I think it'd be a mistake to veer too far off of their current formula.

Now, I believe that Spyderco copying the Axis lock hurts Benchmade much more than Sanrenmu making the 7010 hurts Chris Reeve. I don't believe that Sanrenmu is siphoning off any CRK business by making the 7010, but I do believe that the CBB is siphoning off some of Benchmade's business. I don't believe that this will play a factor in whether or not Benchmade sinks more money into developing another new lock, so I don't think that the CBB is hurting the knife industry. I also don't think that any attempt by me to be self-righteous about my opinions or demeaning towards people that choose to purchase a Spyderco will help the knife industry in any way. I also don't believe that Spyderco's business suffering in any way would benefit the knife industry. I'm just happy that there are so many options out there and that people can buy what they like. Good for them.

We all have to come up with our own criteria on which knives we like and which we don't. We can share experiences and beliefs, but trying to convince somebody to abandon their own and subscribe to yours is just silly. Coming on and saying that you don't support Sanrenmu for whatever reason might sway some people that didn't know about that history. I don't believe that going on a crusade will. Who knows, I might be wrong. Maybe you'll put them out of business. I suspect that you'll have to convince Spyderco and other manufacturers to stop using the Sanrenmu factories to produce their knives. Seems like a big undertaking with very little reward. I think it's a better use of time and energy to try to educate people on how to spot fakes than it is to squabble over whether one knife is different enough from another to meet our arbitrary standards.
 
SpySmasher said:
You've got it exactly backwards if you think clones are going to generate innovation. Patents and the profit protection they give to to creators exist solely to spur innovation and have done so for millenia. That's not an exaggeration.

EDIT: If you were really concerned with the long game, you'd never support buying clones that were still under a patent protection of reasonable length.

EDIT2: By the way, at least in principle, the Chinese government agrees. They both issue patents themselves and are signatories to international patent-protection agreements.
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The whole question of China clones isn't relevant to the knife in question, though.

Doesn't 'mimic' a Sebenza, has some very superficial similarities. It's a framelock... both sides are metal... maybe if I squint real hard?

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seb1.jpg
 
As I said earlier, even if you don't think this knife is a Sebenza ripoff, you cannot deny the company has unquestionably ripped off other designs.
 
What is your opinion on the US companies that use Sanrenmu to produce knives for their brand? Boycott those companies for supporting thievery?
 
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