SanRenMu is back. Sort of.

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Legendary_Jarl said:
Oh I'm not attacking the Sebenza or even Chris Reeve. I'm attacking the stupid parrots who say I support thieves while they are unable to provide any arguments and who also think the Sebenza is a breakthrough in knife design, the pinacle of knife design worthy of a patent. It is not. The steel IS. I give him credit there. Also there is a difference between "CAN" and "WON'T". If I wanted to I could get a Sebenza just as I could get a $168 dollar t-shirt I saw the other day at Bloomingdale. I don't want to get either and I fail to understand why anyone would.



I fail to see how the design of the knife other than the steel constitutes innovation. The steel does.



So laughable you couldn't even answer one argument.



It is such a simple design I wonder if anything was "stolen" at all.



Same with cars. I mean look at cars in the 80's all square. They became more rounded up in the 90's and suddenly every car maker had a 4 cylinder small car and suddenly Toyota came up with the Tundra and hit the turf of Ford and GMC and now everybody has a crossover SUV model. Where do we draw the line? I bet you most of the hypocrites on this thread own something un-original for which the "creator" stood in the shoulders of others to make his product. And like I said, unless Chris Reeve invented folding knives he is standing in the shoulders of others himself. Where do we draw the line?
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What argument did I not answer?
 
danbot said:
We don't look down on clones because we're $300+ or it's crap knife snobs. It's because it hurts our hobby and the companies that have earned our respect and appreciation.
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You have not produced a single example or evidence of how this is the case. The only one who did was mr. "Joe" guy up there I forgot his name. Let me give you an example of an argument you can use, ok, seeing as to how you're incapable of coming up with something yourself:

You know how this affects Chris Reeve? Let's say he wanted to change his business model and cater to a wider public. Let's say he wanted to bring the Sebenza to an affordable scale. Let's say he somehow managed to lower the cost enough for that market. He would now find the market inundated with alternatives that look much like his own knife. Now THAT is an argument. Not these "Theft!" "Theft!" "theft!" "Forum rules" parrots. What does Chris Reeve do? Either make use of his name or innovate.

Then again, just as Ferrari won't make a cheap alternative for a $22,000 market I don't see Chris Reeve doing the same for his brand.
 
Legendary_Jarl said:
No, not everyone. Just the idiots in this thread who idolize the man and the knife.
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Name calling! Nice argument.

What you don't seem to follow, and the "idiots" here do, is that it is not about the Sebenza specifically, it is about stealing a knife maker's (or anyone's for that matter) work.

I cannot come up with a single one that justifies supporting people who do that, and you have an entire list of reasons.

Good for you.
 
Legendary_Jarl said:
I don't think your scenario is very plausible. What kind of an idiot would buy a knife called Sanrenmu 710 and then assume he has a Chris Reeves Sebenza? Specially when both names appear together in videos and forums calling out the design of the first being based on the later. Alternatively, consider the following scenario: Joe Perez who is not a knife-nut buys a Sanrenmu, falls in love with the design, does some digging and finds out about the actual Chris Reeve Sebenza and decides to save money to buy it. Maybe Joe Perez would even find this forum full of snobs who look down upon anything below 300 dollars and decide he wants to be just lke them. He'll get his gold membership and keep wasting 500 dollars annually on Chris Reeve's overpriced EDC pocket knives. Everyone happy. Which scenario is more plausible?
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The same kind of idiot who would stick around here to justify cloning and counterfeits. You'll find those folks few and far between. Maybe go to other places where that garbage is tolerated.
 
Legendary_Jarl said:
You have not produced a single example or evidence of how this is the case. The only one who did was mr. "Joe" guy up there I forgot his name. Let me give you an example of an argument you can use, ok, seeing as to how you're incapable of coming up with something yourself:

You know how this affects Chris Reeve? Let's say he wanted to change his business model and cater to a wider public. Let's say he wanted to bring the Sebenza to an affordable scale. Let's say he somehow managed to lower the cost enough for that market. He would now find the market inundated with alternatives that look much like his own knife. Now THAT is an argument. Not these "Theft!" "Theft!" "theft!" "Forum rules" parrots. What does Chris Reeve do? Either make use of his name or innovate.

Then again, just as Ferrari won't make a cheap alternative for a $22,000 market I don't see Chris Reeve doing the same for his brand.
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Okay, you don't think I answered your argument about how cloning is damaging knife companies. My answer was that I was tying to make a point. That's why I began my post with "Imagine".
Your argument against clones in this post is a good one. So clearly you understand the potential harm. Why don't you care?
And you are the one who brought up CRK. I don't own one because I can't afford one. I would like to though.
 
Legendary_Jarl said:
You talk of the damn Sebenza as if it had taken Chris Reeve 10 years of design and development. A knife such as simple and ugly probably took his 15 minutes in the crapper. Seriously. The "design" is so simple I fail to see he could possibly have a claim to a patent...
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Fifteen minutes in the crapper or fifteen years on the drawing board, it makes no difference. The design is his. He has a patent on it even if you fail to see why. Like it or not.

If you purchase a product based upon the work of Chris Reeve and it is not approved by Chris himself, CRK, or maybe his business partners, you are purchasing from a thief. Period! Unless, of course, the patent has run out. Then the design is up for grabs. Why is this so difficult for you to understand?

However, let's get away from CRK and the Sebenza for a moment, shall we? Can you use the same arguments if the knife is the $25-30 dollar RAT 1 or 2 made by Ontario Knife Co. and the clone is the $15 copy made overseas? How does your defense work now?
 
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Legendary_Jarl said:
Oh I'm not attacking the Sebenza or even Chris Reeve. I'm attacking the stupid parrots who say I support thieves while they are unable to provide any arguments and who also think the Sebenza is a breakthrough in knife design, the pinacle of knife design worthy of a patent. It is not. The steel IS. I give him credit there. Also there is a difference between "CAN" and "WON'T". If I wanted to I could get a Sebenza just as I could get a $168 dollar t-shirt I saw the other day at Bloomingdale. I don't want to get either and I fail to understand why anyone would.



I fail to see how the design of the knife other than the steel constitutes innovation. The steel does.



So laughable you couldn't even answer one argument.



It is such a simple design I wonder if anything was "stolen" at all.



Same with cars. I mean look at cars in the 80's all square. They became more rounded up in the 90's and suddenly every car maker had a 4 cylinder small car and suddenly Toyota came up with the Tundra and hit the turf of Ford and GMC and now everybody has a crossover SUV model. Where do we draw the line? I bet you most of the hypocrites on this thread own something un-original for which the "creator" stood in the shoulders of others to make his product. And like I said, unless Chris Reeve invented folding knives he is standing in the shoulders of others himself. Where do we draw the line?
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Why do you hate crk so much?
 
And how is knife steel more important than design? With that logic marble is more important than the sculpture David is carved from.
 
Legendary_Jarl said:
You have not produced a single example or evidence of how this is the case. The only one who did was mr. "Joe" guy up there I forgot his name. Let me give you an example of an argument you can use, ok, seeing as to how you're incapable of coming up with something yourself:

You know how this affects Chris Reeve? Let's say he wanted to change his business model and cater to a wider public. Let's say he wanted to bring the Sebenza to an affordable scale. Let's say he somehow managed to lower the cost enough for that market. He would now find the market inundated with alternatives that look much like his own knife. Now THAT is an argument. Not these "Theft!" "Theft!" "theft!" "Forum rules" parrots. What does Chris Reeve do? Either make use of his name or innovate.

Then again, just as Ferrari won't make a cheap alternative for a $22,000 market I don't see Chris Reeve doing the same for his brand.
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You have no idea what Chris Reeve did or currently does.
 
MolokaiRider said:
I did some quick Google searching and found many examples of gun manufacturers suing over design infringement. The problem is the inherent cost of litigation. A manufacturer must decide if it’s worth pursuing enough if it offsets enough of their profits. A design patent is not inherently the US patent office to enforce, but rather allows a company to sue.

For example; Company A steals Company B’s design, but the profit margin of Company B is not impacted enough to warrant the cost of litigation.

Company B is still the inherent loser in this deal regardless.
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I don't doubt for a minute the companies dont like it. I was more pondering on the enthusiasts difference in perception on the topic in the knife vs gun world.
 
sabre cat said:
However, let's get away from CRK and the Sebenza for a moment, shall we? Can you use the same arguments if the knife is the $25-30 dollar RAT 1 or 2 made by Ontario Knife Co. and the clone is the $15 copy made overseas? How does your defense work now?
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Excellent point!
L Legendary_Jarl , how does your less than logical logic defend clones in this case? If high cost, low value and poor design justify theft of the Sebenza design, what makes theft of the RAT 1 ok?

Are we just going to end up at “I WANTS IT!”?
 
There are 1000s of knives that are original designs. Why do you choose to support theft when you could get something really nice and original.

And a your excuses are bs. Your just about you.no care for anyone else. It's fully known no one likes there design stolen yet you don't care about them. It's okay as long as you get what you want. Even though it's a huge problem your going to share with the world you don't care about other people's design languages. When you can buy a perfectly original design. Why?
 
Mo2 said:
There are 1000s of knives that are original designs. Why do you choose to support theft when you could get something really nice and original.

And a your excuses are bs. Your just about you.no care for anyone else. It's fully known no one likes there design stolen yet you don't care about them. It's okay as long as you get what you want. Even though it's a huge problem your going to share with the world you don't care about other people's design languages. When you can buy a perfectly original design. Why?
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Ahhhhhh! Theft, theft, theft! Ahhhhh!:D:rolleyes:
 
Legendary_Jarl said:
Maybe Joe Perez would even find this forum full of snobs who look down upon anything below 300 dollars and decide he wants to be just lke them. He'll get his gold membership and keep wasting 500 dollars annually on Chris Reeve's overpriced EDC pocket knives. Everyone happy. Which scenario is more plausible?
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You seem to carry a big grudge against CRK and people who have them and I'm not sure why?
 
craytab said:
If that is what this forum and it's policy is for you, then why continue to fly your counterfeit support flag here?

The op, you, and the other few continued counterfeit supporters knew exactly how this would go.

If you support counterfeiting clone artists, don't brag about it here. Until the owner changes his rules on clones, the results will always be the same.
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:) Your main motive is to get someone banished . Get's you so hot . I've never "supported" anything but freedom of information and to buy what we choose . Most of my posts are about Cold Steel or in Prac-Tac . I really don't give a hoot about the brands that use imitation , so long as the brand labeling is correct and the purchase is legal . Just don't care ,but do not "promote "or "support" . Overwhelmingly , my comments about actual counterfeits have been negative for functional/value reasons. I only made one post(long ago) that was positive about an actual counterfeit $12.50 " Shiro " and that was a JOKE . Who could be fooled or harmed by that ? $12.50 for a $6000.00 knife . :p Take the rest of your crap to W&C , where it belongs . Whew ! I need a nap now . :cool::thumbsup::thumbsup:
 
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