Sebenza 25 construction flaw? (Nope, not a flaw, read inside)

Kenny_Powers said:
But instead of coming on the forum and telling people there's a flaw why not contact the maker first and have them fix the problem your having?
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I came here because for me, a forum is the right place to share with other people and hear their opinions and experience. I don't live in US so sending a knife in for me is a lot of trouble. Other than that, fixing a single knife doesn't solve the overall problem in design.
If CRK are monitoring the forums, and I hope that they are, it'll help them understand that something is wrong.
 
The guy in the vid seems happy with the customer service but what was done to correct the issue with the knife? Was hoping to see what the fix was so that it wouldn't happen again.
 
ToddM said:
That does seem like an odd design choice, I can't see any reason the first arc of the the blade tang itself that needs to pass the stop pin flat could not be reduced by what 0.1" at most to clear it without having to notch the pin, except it looks like the detent might ride very close to the edge there. The ceramic ball lock bar certainly isn't using that bottom 0.1" of tang for lock up. If a notched pin had to be used I'd think ideal solution would be to notch the pin/handle interface as well so that the pin cannot spin in the handle, even if a screw should loosen, but I'm not a knife maker and it would probably increase costs and time in manufacturing. Plus if yours is loose even with the screws tight well that's a double whammy.

It reminds me of the "multi-flats" stop pin BM tried on the 760 where guys were rotating it to change the lockup and some rotated on their own, but I've seen more than one of them where that pin had rotated and screwed up the lockup or disabled the knife. Any non-round stop pin seems to cause more problems than they are worth, Murphy seems to enjoy messing with them.

On the plus side there's no doubt that CRK will fix the problem for you, and while every company at every price point has problems I'd have to say that for $450+ I'd hope a rotating stop pin would not disable my knife. I'm not sure how much it would cost in manufacturing to either allow the use of a round pin or ensure the notched one cannot move but I'd think at that price point owners would pay a bit more for the peace of mind.
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Man, I agree with every word you said!
We are all love CRK knives but if there are weird things, it must be pointed out and called a spade a spade.
 
Exactly, Maprik. If there is a flaw in the design then I want to know about it.
Thanks OP for the notice.
CRK will fix the problem, no doubt, but this is where that process begins.
 
You got to realize that CRK is probably pupmping out more knives then they ever have now! But I was very happy with there customer service. And Vininull should call them and explain what the issue is and I'm sure they will take care of it in his benefit. I feel your aggravations though... i hate sending knives. But when you think about it. It's not that big of a deal. You should be happy in the end :)
 
I posted this: http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...ugh-Action-on-the-second-day-of-use-My-new-25 after this exact problem happened to me. The pin had turned just enough to create friction with the tang. I didn't know this until I took it apart, cleaned it, and put it back together. I have the pin with the screws, and when I reassembled my 25 the problem was fixed. It is my edc and I put a good deal of use on it since that post, and the problem has not returned. So, I guess my answer is to clean it and make sure the pin screws are tight when you reassemble it. It seemed to take care of the issue for me. If not, send it in. You paid for the warranty so you might as well use it.
 
vininull said:
So the one I am talking about has screws on each side. So it is natural that pin can spin a bit and bacause that tolerances are so high it causes problems right away. Looks like a construction flaw to me then.
What a mess... Why, why not using simple round stop pin...
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I have had zero issues with mine. I have not taken it apart though either. Will wait till it needs to be taken down before I do so, I see no reason until then. I do not need to to take it apart to question the design and critique it.
 
nyefmaker said:
I have had zero issues with mine. I have not taken it apart though either. Will wait till it needs to be taken down before I do so, I see no reason until then. I do not need to to take it apart to question the design and critique it.
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Of course you won't critique the knife without knowing what is going on inside! You can talk business only when it gets down to work, use, sharpening etc. When it happens (real use) you'll need to take it apart pretty soon, that's why Chris puts 3(!) wrenches with a knife.
 
Sadly all too often as companies get bigger they almost always loose the level of QC they had as a smaller company and it demands more decisions become based on manufacturing costs and production time. It's well documented CRK quality and customer service is still well above most of the production competition, so they have weathered becoming bigger better than most. However, CRK are still some of the most expensive non-custom S30/S35 made knives out there and the quality, design, and reliability must reflect that to justify that price.

I also appreciate users bringing these issues to light as long as it's in a civil manner, and it's an issue others have ran into as well. As these issues come to light, even minor ones, perhaps it will encourage another design change to improve an already great product. I'd encourage anyone with a product that they feel has an issue to inform the manufacturer at any price point it only helps them improve their products, and to tell others of the issue so they can be better informed consumers. In my mind I wouldn't want to worry about a pivot rotating on a $450 knife, but everyone is different and plenty of users are not seeing this particular issue.

On a positive note after seeing this I like my Zaan even more! :)
 
ToddM said:
Sadly all too often as companies get bigger they almost always loose the level of QC they had as a smaller company and it demands more decisions become based on manufacturing costs and production time. It's well documented CRK quality and customer service is still well above most of the production competition, so they have weathered becoming bigger better than most. However, CRK are still some of the most expensive non-custom S30/S35 made knives out there and the quality, design, and reliability must reflect that to justify that price.

I also appreciate users bringing these issues to light as long as it's in a civil manner, and it's an issue others have ran into as well. As these issues come to light, even minor ones, perhaps it will encourage another design change to improve an already great product. I'd encourage anyone with a product that they feel has an issue to inform the manufacturer at any price point it only helps them improve their products, and to tell others of the issue so they can be better informed consumers. In my mind I wouldn't want to worry about a pivot rotating on a $450 knife, but everyone is different and plenty of users are not seeing this particular issue.

On a positive note after seeing this I like my Zaan even more! :)
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Well said AND plus 1 on the Zaan! :)




Thanks to the OP for bringing this issue to light. From what I have seen CRK incorporates and weighs customer feedback and does a good job implementing them into old or new designs to a certain degree. Will the "Idaho Made" Stamp ever be done away with or moved to the blade.......probably not,( but the mechanical and functional minor flaws in designs always seemed to get their kinks worked out. This thread in particular drew my interest because I always thought the pressed in stop pins were a unique and cool feature AND looked pretty darn sleek. Obviously functional they are so why change them?? The knife can still be dissassembled and cleaned oh-so-thoroughly with the pin still attached to the lockside scale. Now it adds one more step to the dissassemble and assemble process. It seems to be a recurring theme (for me at least) that CRK gets it 99% right the first time and then change it?


Hope you can work out the kinks and either find a way to make the stop pin stay fixed in place (2-ton epoxy might work) or if you send it in to CRK I am sure they will fix it.
 
vininull said:
Of course you won't critique the knife without knowing what is going on inside! You can talk business only when it gets down to work, use, sharpening etc. When it happens (real use) you'll need to take it apart pretty soon, that's why Chris puts 3(!) wrenches with a knife.
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The design of the 25 sebenza is far different than that of the other sebenzas which I have had well over 50 of. I can plainly see the flat spot on the blade stop. The 25 is of the same design as the umnumzaan. In the 5 years I have had my umnumzaan ( first batch ), I have taken it apart 2 times, and once was to install a custom backspacer. So I am sure it will be some time before my 25 comes apart. I don't need to tinker........For those that have a legitimate problem, CRK will take care of you, no questions asked.

I am sure there is a reason for the flat spot and that it's Not a design flaw. More than likely, I would say issues that arose in this post were more due to improper assembly than anything.
 
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I'm not seeing your issue with my knife. Sorry man. :(
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A question is that you don't see the issue yet and what warranties that it won't show up in the future. Have you taken your knife apart? How the stop pin is made, does if press fit and stuck dead in a scale or could it be taken out?
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The 25 design is new enough to me that I didn't realize they made a change in the stop pin design already. Specs on the web still list the part as being interference fit. Mine is.

Again, I'm bummed for you that you're having a problem with your knife. :( I really wish that I could pick Chis' brain. I'm sure a lot of things like the pivot bushing change were finance based (maybe?), but this? Who knows, but I sure wish I did.

In the end I guess I'm happy that I got an "older" one, even if I didn't get the new packaging and lube.
 
Just throwing this out there, but a little Loctite on outside of the pin before it is pressed into the scales will stop it from moving about.
It's not the most elegant solution, but I've had similar issues with other knives in the past and that trick worked just fine.
 
Bit of a killjoy..I just ordered one..I hope I wont have to send it back to CRK. I do see this as a design flaw, but I would gladly accept if Chris chimed in and schooled me.
 
OK, that makes two things I would have preferred differently on the 25. I vote the 26 be released this year with a bushing pivot and a round stop pin. I could also live with more subdued finger grooves.
 
I personally wish the sebenza 25 looked just like the large regular with the ceramic ball detent and lockup.........since we are on the wishing kinda thing...!!!
 
On the large sebenza, I know one of the holes can be used for a lanyard, what is the other hole for?
The 25 has neither of these holes, just wondering.
 
Krav said:
On the large sebenza, I know one of the holes can be used for a lanyard, what is the other hole for?
The 25 has neither of these holes, just wondering.
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It's there for manufacturing purposes. It makes alignment in the machining fixtures faster and more precise.
I kinda like the way it looks with a hole in the middle. I wouldn't mind if the 25 had one.
 
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