Sebenza 31 Lock Rock?!

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Sharp & Fiery said:
The entire reason for updating the 21 to the 31 is based on sales..
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I guess I disagree with this one point. I don’t agree all businesses are soulless and are not interested at all in the products they sell. Chris Reeve would have never gone into the knife business if he wasn’t interested in knives.

This above statement is written like a shareholder, not an entrepreneur and knife maker of note. I’m sure there’s enthusiasm at CRK for the joy of adding a new model for the models sake.
 
kidcongo said:
I guess I disagree with this one point. I don’t agree all businesses are soulless and are not interested at all in the products they sell. Chris Reeve would have never gone into the knife business if he wasn’t interested in knives.

This above statement is written like a shareholder, not an entrepreneur and knife maker of note. I’m sure there’s enthusiasm at CRK for the joy of adding a new model for the models sake.
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I agree with you that CRK is always looking at improvement within their lineup...and that it is exciting for them and their staff.
I also believe that CRK (Chris mostly), took great pride in his work. Which for those of us who remember him, loved. And innovation is always an aspect of business.
I know that they arent totally about the bottom line, or else we would have medium sebenzas! Haha.
But at the end of the day, if sales are down, you gotta make something new to keep the wheel greased. (I don’t know this for fact, just an assumption)

In closing, I run a construction business, and I love building beautiful unique homes...in fact I take pride in it...but there is no way Im going to build a unique home and loose money because I love that home...let alone do that multiple times. ;) That’s what i meant by my statement. :) Maybe I shoulda said “Part of the reason...”

All that said, I think we are basically on the same page, just saying it differently. :)

Glad to see you around the forums again.
Was wondering where you went. :D It’s good to have you back!
 
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Sharp & Fiery said:
I agree with you that CRK is always looking at improvement within their lineup...and that it is exciting for them and their staff.
I also believe that CRK (Chris mostly), took great pride in his work. Which for those of us who remember him, loved. And innovation is always an aspect of business.
I know that they arent totally about the bottom line, or else we would have medium sebenzas! Haha.
But at the end of the day, if sales are down, you gotta make something new to keep the wheel greased. (I don’t know this for fact, just an assumption)

In closing, I run a construction business, and I love building beautiful unique homes...in fact I take pride in it...but there is no way Im going to build a unique home and loose money because I love that home...let alone do that multiple times. ;) That’s what i meant by my statement. :) Maybe I shoulda said “Part of the reason...”

All that said, I think we are basically on the same page, just saying it differently. :)

Glad to see you around the forums again.
Was wondering where you went. :D It’s good to have you back!
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All true. Yeah. I’m not really seriously disagreeing with anyone here. It’s more of a friendly chin-wag about something we all care about enough to spend time writing about.

I‘ve mostly convinced myself to get a 31. Mainly to check out the lock rock ;):D.
 
kidcongo said:
All true. Yeah. I’m not really seriously disagreeing with anyone here. It’s more of a friendly chin-wag about something we all care about enough to spend time writing about.

I‘ve mostly convinced myself to get a 31. Mainly to check out the lock rock ;):D.
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Right there with ya!
 
I've never noticed or specifically checked for blade movement or lock rock on any of my CRK folders and I see no reason to start checking them now.
 
1/2 ( not taken by poll or any other means)clamor for CRK to move with the times, 1/2 want them to stay the same. They have limited capacity so it is hard for them to do both. I personally am in the stay the same camp, but I rarely endorse change(when something isn't broken), so that is no great shock.
I am sure given time many will come to embrace the 31, but I would hold on to those 21's and before. I believe you will be glad you did- once the inventory is gone they are gone, and the secondary market will start shrinking.
-never checked my 21's and Classic MM's for forced blade movement and have no plans to.
 
So I purchased a large and small 31 this week. Saw the video posted earlier in the thread yesterday and canceled my order for the large. The small had already shipped.

Small 31 should be here Saturday. New umnumzaan should be here today.

I’ll check and compare them both when I can. Last night I checked the 3 21’s, and one 25 i have. Couldn’t get any of them to move like the video shows. There was some very slight movement on one of the 21’s but I had to exert much more force than what it appeared to take for the person in the 31 video.
 
Generally a company will keep the best seller, and drop the worst after a time... The market dictates what they want.. I do not know CRK sales by model, but based on 2nd hand market , seems 21 was their best seller... like Ford has run AN F-150 for a long time, but offers other models as well... I also agree i
 
Peter Hartwig said:
1/2 ( not taken by poll or any other means)clamor for CRK to move with the times, 1/2 want them to stay the same. They have limited capacity so it is hard for them to do both. I personally am in the stay the same camp, but I rarely endorse change(when something isn't broken), so that is no great shock.
I am sure given time many will come to embrace the 31, but I would hold on to those 21's and before. I believe you will be glad you did- once the inventory is gone they are gone, and the secondary market will start shrinking.
-never checked my 21's and Classic MM's for forced blade movement and have no plans to.
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Ha, I want them to go back to the Regular! You know, if I had my way. :p
 
I ordered a small 31 with inlays yesterday after much debate with myself about buying the 31 or small Inkosi. I finally decided on the 31 due to the small Inkosi just being too small and I really wanted some of the internal features of the Inkosi. My daily carry is a small Wilson Combat 21 with Insingo blade, which I love but decided to put it up to hand down to my grand daughter (named Wilson). I really like the looks of the inlays on the 31 and hope I don’t regret my decision but I’m seeing ALOT of 31s already on the secondary market and it’s a little disconcerting.
 
FWIW (not much) I tested one of my Umnumzaan the other day while bracing it on a tabletop. Just like a few others, I was able to induce a bit of lockbar flex. There was no slip and I couldn’t really percieve any related blade movement.

I didn’t have any issues with my ‘Zaan before the test, and I don’t have any now. I also don’t feel a desire to grab my other CRKs for testing.

Any lock is going to flex (or even fail) at some point. How much flex is too much? I guess I’ll know it when I’ll feel it. To those that feel their 31’s have too much, that’s a colossal bummer!

Given current events, it’ll be a while before I have a chance to try a 31 and see for myself.
 
So I put all my CRK framelock knives on the countertop last night and pushed down on the spine of them all. I pushed down on the backside of the tip of the blade with the bottom of the handle against the countertop. Low and behold, their lockbars all flex, and the blades move downward, even the 21s and my one regular.

Barring my four L21s, four S21s, one S25, one Umnumzaan, and one Regular being defective, they all flex downward to varying degrees. I could get all of the blades to move more than 1 millimeter quite easily. None of the locks slipped.

In my observation:

- Small 21s have the most blade movement

- Umnumzaan and Sebenza 25 have a little less play than the small 21s, and are about equal to each other. The Umnum blade moves a little more easily than the S25.

-The L21s and my Regular have the least blade movement, but the blade still easily moves downward if pushing on the spine on all of these knives as well.

Some truths:

If you are flexing the lockbar while pushing downwards (as many here have reported), you are moving the blade. You cannot flex the lock bar without moving the blade. That’s just physics/geometry.

My conclusion:

All CRK framelock knives exhibit this “lock rock”. It’s never been a problem. I have zero concerns about the 31 if I can afford to pick one up at some point.
 
kidcongo said:
So I put all my CRK framelock knives on the countertop last night and pushed down on the spine of them all. I pushed down on the backside of the tip of the blade with the bottom of the handle against the countertop. Low and behold, their lockbars all flex, and the blades move downward, even the 21s and my one regular.

Barring my four L21s, four S21s, one S25, one Umnumzaan, and one Regular being defective, they all flex downward to varying degrees. I could get all of the blades to move more than 1 millimeter quite easily. None of the locks slipped.

In my observation:

- Small 21s have the most blade movement

- Umnumzaan and Sebenza 25 have a little less play than the small 21s, and are about equal to each other. The Umnum blade moves a little more easily than the S25.

-The L21s and my Regular have the least blade movement, but the blade still easily moves downward if pushing on the spine on all of these knives as well.

Some truths:

If you are flexing the lockbar while pushing downwards (as many here have reported), you are moving the blade. You cannot flex the lock bar without moving the blade. That’s just physics/geometry.

My conclusion:

All CRK framelock knives exhibit this “lock rock”. It’s never been a problem. I have zero concerns about the 31 if I can afford to pick one up at some point.
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Very well said. I concur.
 
My small plain 31 came in today. My new Umnum came yesterday.

To be completely honest, I can flex the small 31 MUCH easier than any of my other CRK knives, some dating back to 2011.

I compared the 31 directly to each of my CRK knives, and while I can get *some* flex from all of them if I use enough force, the 31 is much easier to flex. Take that for what it's worth.

It doesn't bother me, because I don't tend to use the spine of my pocket knives for....anything. I use the cutting edge.
 
I seem to recall a video where Tim Reeve talked about changing the lock to a ceramic ball for the 31. He said something to the effect that they have seen fewer issues with the ceramic ball lock interface than with the Sebenza 21 lock interface, that it is a more reliable lock. Take that for whatever it is worth when talking about the reasons why they changed the lock - it was not likely to increase sales, or at least the main reason. After all, they are operating at full capacity.
 
Here is the basic test. Hold the back of the knife firmly, and press down on the tip of the blade. I can get all my CRK frame locks to move a significant amount doing this. None of them are “Rock Solid”.

Having said that, I have no issue with any of my CRK knives. This movement does not bother or alarm me. I can’t see it being any other way truthfully.

UQs5s6a.jpg
 
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