Sebenza 31 Lock Rock?!

I’ll throw this out there for perspective (and because it’s a shelter-in-place Sunday).

Not all 21’s are perfect. In the short time I’ve been here, I remember pile-on threads about asymmetric grinds and how QC inconsistency was a hallmark of a company in decline after Chris’ retirement. HRC got a bump over the lifespan. The cool grooves on the stop-pin collar disappeared. And so-on.

Myself, I have a beautiful Lg Thuya that’s been back to Bosie twice for being off center and still isn’t quite perfect (unless you’re using Benchmade standards ;)).

Some Umnumzaan open & close silently; mine never have (though one is almost silent on opening). As mentioned, Zaan has undergone some changes along the way, so someone thought they were corrections or improvements or whatever.

The 25 had some things that to me seemed wonky (the washers and stop pin) and was gently morphed into the Inkosi (which I personally love). Then the Inkosi’s ball grove was dropped (I have a small with the groove and a large without).

The Impinda had some changes shortly after release. Early adopters were taken care of.

I’m throwing this all out there to show that if past performance is a predictor of future success, hopefully things will get looked at and addressed, whether it’s QC or design related. Timeframe TBD :(.

Then when S45VN gets adopted we can start another thread! :D
 
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4mer_FMF said:
I’ll throw this out there for perspective (and because it’s a shelter-in-place Sunday).

Not all 21’s are perfect. In the short time I’ve been here, I remember pile-on threads about asymmetric grinds and how QC inconsistency was a hallmark of a company in decline after Chris’ retirement. HRC got a bump over the lifespan. The cool grooves on the stop-pin collar disappeared. And so-on.

Myself, I have a beautiful Lg Thuya that’s been back to Bosie twice for being off center and still isn’t quite perfect (unless you’re using Benchmade standards ;)).

Some Umnumzaan open & close silently; mine never have (though one is almost silent on opening). As mentioned, Zaan has undergone some changes along the way, so someone thought they were corrections or improvements or whatever.

The 25 had some things that to me seemed wonky (the washers and stop pin) and was gently morphed into the Inkosi (which I personally love). Then the Inkosi’s ball grove was dropped (I have a small with the groove and a large without).

The Impinda had some changes shortly after release. Early adopters were taken care of.

I’m throwing this all out there to show that if past performance is a predictor of future success, hopefully things will get looked at and addressed, whether it’s QC or design related. Timeframe TBD :(.

Then when S45VN gets adopted we can start another thread! :D
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This is all true. :) I remember all this, and I sure do miss those nice grooves in the stop pin collar. Have a few 21’s with them. :D

I wish the Zaan’s still had the original pivot. Lol.

Im clearly a sucker for details! Haha.

The early Impinda owners were made right which is awesome...and now the Impinda is on my radar.

Can’t wait for S45VN if it happens, that will be interesting and exciting.

Now that I have basically repeated your post...haha...
I’m hoping the fix comes soon, if there is one...because I so badly want to love and own multiple 31’s!!
Wish I had a spare stop pin collar so I could fix this 31 myself. Haha.

Thanks for your post. Puts things into perspective.
However, lol, a knife with “sebenza” in the name, should lockup like a Sebenza. ;)
 
Sharp & Fiery said:
This is all true. :) I remember all this, and I sure do miss those nice grooves in the stop pin collar. Have a few 21’s with them. :D

I wish the Zaan’s still had the original pivot. Lol.

Im clearly a sucker for details! Haha.

The early Impinda owners were made right which is awesome...and now the Impinda is on my radar.

Can’t wait for S45VN if it happens, that will be interesting and exciting.

Now that I have basically repeated your post...haha...
I’m hoping the fix comes soon, if there is one...because I so badly want to love and own multiple 31’s!!
Wish I had a spare stop pin collar so I could fix this 31 myself. Haha.

Thanks for your post. Puts things into perspective.
However, lol, a knife with “sebenza” in the name, should lockup like a Sebenza. ;)
Click to expand...
My search didn’t produce any info. In short form, without derailing this thread, what were the issues with the early Impindas?
 
kidcongo said:
My search didn’t produce any info. In short form, without derailing this thread, what were the issues with the early Impindas?
Click to expand...

Centering and gritty action.
 
kidcongo said:
My search didn’t produce any info. In short form, without derailing this thread, what were the issues with the early Impindas?
Click to expand...

I think the early Impinda stuff mostly exploded on other media, YouTube & etc. There was some, but not a ton here.

I’m running from memory, but as I recall the earliest models had issues with lockspring fitting that required a design change. I think there was a pivot &/or bushing change, perhaps to key the pivot?

Forgive me if I’m wrong, but that’s what I remember.

“And now, back to the Sebenza 31.” :)

ETA I found it.

 
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4mer_FMF said:
I think the early Impinda stuff mostly exploded on other media, YouTube & etc. There was some, but not a ton here.

I’m running from memory, but as I recall the earliest models had issues with lockspring fitting that required a design change. I think there was a pivot &/or bushing change, perhaps to key the pivot?

Forgive me if I’m wrong, but that’s what I remember.

“And now, back to the Sebenza 31.” :)

ETA I found it.

Click to expand...
Thank you for your reply! I appreciate the effort.
 
View attachment 1325588 View attachment 1325589

Don’t be sad Dangerously Dangerously . This thread has displayed a lot of angst, but it really just shows the passion people have for Chris Reeve knives. The 31 is going to be different, no doubt. Hopefully, they will be able to reduce the flex, but we all now know, in great detail, that flex exists in all of their locking folders to some degree or the other, even the 21. The trade off with the ceramic ball is a lock that is harder to break. The good news is that for the time being you can cover your bets by getting a new 21. That is what I did!

However, I do believe that we should be patient and give the company a chance to make adjustments as they see fit. Then simply choose to buy a 31 or not. At the end of the day, it is just a knife and NONE of the brands out there are perfect. They are just different.

I am sure that I will buy a 31 at some
point to check it out. If I I don’t like it, I will simply return it for a refund or sell it and move on to the next one. There is always the next one.
 
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News of the 31 actually renewed my interest in a Sebenza as I had sort of written it off as a possibility some 5 years ago and the new design addressed a lot of my nitpicks. Then I heard of the steel change so I was already committed to waiting for the S45vn and any associated production issues to be worked out of the 31 process.

Meanwhile, I landed a really nice deal on a used small CF inlay Insingo 21 as my first CRK after so many years and dollars of chasing alternatives. It’s not super easy to find Sebenzas in the Canadian secondary market. I’m looking forward to complementing it with a large 31 workhorse (micarta inlay looks fantastic).
 
I just received a small plain 31 today via a trade. Thanks Nystagmus!

I compared this to the small micarta 31 that I received straight from CRK.

There was WAY less lock flex in the plain one! Maybe 1/3 of what was in the micarta.

if the micarta was like the plain, it would be golden! Lots of variability though between different knives is what concerns me the most.
 
I am wondering who ever had a 21, that with use the lock bar traveled to 100% lock up then developed blade play? Where is that knife...? In some ways it seem the 31 is a "fix" to a hypothetical problem. Lets just go down this rabbit hole... Not far. You keep your 21 that is for the most part rock solid(mine are) until its lock up is 100%. What do you think the blade would look like at this point? Think it would need or could use a new one? I bet at that time CRK would fix the over travel of your well worn lock bar as they replace your blade you have sharpened to the point its starting to thicken.

So in the same breath I would also say I believe in progress and sometimes that is not easy to try and innovate and progress a design. Especially when you are trying the make the 21 better. I would hate to have that task. I would love to have seen he 21 hang around a little longer. Maybe a year of production for both and then slowly transition over to the 31. Seems to have been very abrupt. I could almost say why ever stop producing the 21 at all... Its timeless and solid... I mean really what was wrong with it? Not sure I ever saw the changes that where made as an issue.
 
MreeceC said:
I am wondering who ever had a 21, that with use the lock bar traveled to 100% lock up then developed blade play? Where is that knife...? In some ways it seem the 31 is a "fix" to a hypothetical problem. Lets just go down this rabbit hole... Not far. You keep your 21 that is for the most part rock solid(mine are) until its lock up is 100%. What do you think the blade would look like at this point? Think it would need or could use a new one? I bet at that time CRK would fix the over travel of your well worn lock bar as they replace your blade you have sharpened to the point its starting to thicken.
Click to expand...

The blade and lockbar have both worn at this point, so you'll need a new lock and new blade. And since you're putting a bunch of new stuff in there, new washers, pivot bushing, and stop pin. This means the only thing "saved" is the front handle.

The ceramic ball makes the blade a true consumable. The ceramic ball won't wear and you can throw new blades at forever. I think the 31 is another small incremental step. What was wrong with the Regular, Classic, or P? Objectively they all worked great, but CRK is a company that continues to move forward. I'm keenly interested in seeing what changes come on the Sebenza 41.
 
Josh K said:
The ceramic ball makes the blade a true consumable. The ceramic ball won't wear and you can throw new blades at forever.
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This is not true. Ceramics wear. I know this for a fact. Ceramics against rubber last 3 times longer than rubber against rubber. So now we are talking ceramics on steel...sorry, but ceramics dont last forever. ;)
 
Sharp & Fiery said:
This is not true. Ceramics wear. I know this for a fact. Ceramics against rubber last 3 times longer than rubber against rubber. So now we are talking ceramics on steel...sorry, but ceramics dont last forever. ;)
Click to expand...

Not forever, and there's always wear, but in the application we're discussing it's effectively much longer than titanium on steel. Did anyone have an issue with locks wearing out on the Sebenza? Doubt it. But this probably makes fitting locks and new blades easier as well.
 
Josh K said:
But this probably makes fitting locks and new blades easier as well.
Click to expand...

Yes, this.

A) streamlined process because CRK doesn't need to peel off the Sebenza scales to the torch table for detent ball insertion and carburization
B) simplified process because the ceramic detent ball interface doesn't require the blade tang to be finessed to fit the lockbar cut; Sebenza 21 (and earlier) tangs are polished and Spyderco ceramic stoned to fit; Inkosis/Umnumzaans/31s are just taken right out of the CNC (or whatever they cut their blades with).

Issues outlined in this thread notwithstanding, the 31 improvements are about speeding up the production line without drastically changing the Sebenza DNA.
 
Final thoughts on this thread.
The Large Sebenza 31 was my dream grail knife.
I never gave a bias opinion on the Lock rock/flex topic, but I had other reasons for the need to return the 31.
See prior comments for my issues.
I am forever grateful for everyone in this forum for the support they have given me and my fledgling Youtube channel (thank you for the views and subscriptions!!!) and for the passion and expertise you all have in this CRK family.
Reminds me of those large family holiday gatherings ;-)
Special thanks to *Knife Center* customer service for the return.
It is a rare experience to find such customer service beyond a purchase!
I highly recommend Bladeforums and Knife Center to all.
Hope to be adopted back to the CRK family in the future.
Stay well and safe everyone. Mahalo!
 
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