Sebenza 31 Lock Rock?!

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rxavage said:
it blows my mind that anyone actually finds any amount of blade play/lock rock/“flexing”lol acceptable in a 500$ knife.
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rxavage said:
Absolutely not. 100% do not flex. Stop making excuses.
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rxavage said:
im glad I don’t own your knives.
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rxavage said:
No. But if it comforts you to believe that so be it.
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The ignorance (and arrogance) of your posts had me thinking I was browsing Facebook for a minute.
 
kidcongo said:
They all flex. Every last one. No exceptions.
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I respectfully disagree. The couple I have out, I found zero movement. Did I put 300 lbs of Force on it...? No. But put more than I even felt comfortable and found none. All were large 21’s. Guess I am lucky.....lol. With this, I felt no need to “test” my other sebenzas.

Having had a ceramic ball lockup fail, I simply do not trust them, with the lone exception of my Sebenza 25. A Sebenza 21 has about 3/8” lockbar that wedges against roughly 1/4” of blade tang. Very solid. Hinderer, Spartan, Strider and virtually every frame lock incorporate this. A ceramic ball lock up has what is the equivalent of a ball point pen point that wedges up to a blade tang. Certainly not as solid. I have a nice scar that reminds me of that daily.

Knowing a 31 has thinner blade stock makes me even more Leary as there is less thickness to engage the ball lockup.

The only ball lockup that I have used extensively and has not failed is my Sebenza 25 I bought new when they came out. Carried it for years and has so many snail trails it looks scotchbrighted and still has yet to be taken apart.

In the end, people will buy what they want, regardless of what people think and will gather their Own Experience.

I will buy what I Trust.
 
nyefmaker said:
I respectfully disagree. The couple I have out, I found zero movement. Did I put 300 lbs of Force on it...? No. But put more than I even felt comfortable and found none. All were large 21’s. Guess I am lucky.....lol. With this, I felt no need to “test” my other sebenzas.

Having had a ceramic ball lockup fail, I simply do not trust them, with the lone exception of my Sebenza 25. A Sebenza 21 has about 3/8” lockbar that wedges against roughly 1/4” of blade tang. Very solid. Hinderer, Spartan, Strider and virtually every frame lock incorporate this. A ceramic ball lock up has what is the equivalent of a ball point pen point that wedges up to a blade tang. Certainly not as solid. I have a nice scar that reminds me of that daily.

Knowing a 31 has thinner blade stock makes me even more Leary as there is less thickness to engage the ball lockup.

The only ball lockup that I have used extensively and has not failed is my Sebenza 25 I bought new when they came out. Carried it for years and has so many snail trails it looks scotchbrighted and still has yet to be taken apart.

In the end, people will buy what they want, regardless of what people think and will gather their Own Experience.

I will buy what I Trust.
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I’m not arguing that some knives seem more solid than others. My only point here, is this thread is completely subjective unless we get some test results that show newton-meters of force etc. Everyone has their own expectations and opinion, and we have to admit that maybe we have a few defective knives represented here as well.

The lock on a frame-lock is a spring. It will flex when pressured, as it must, being a spring. Even though the idea is it wedges against the tang, the milled “hinge” on any frame lock will flex under pressure. Maybe that is 300PSI to make it flex on certain 21s. It’s not 300psi on my many 21s or my regular.

Anyways......don’t misinterpret my attitude about this whole thing. I’m not trying to prove the 31 is the greatest ever. Maybe it is bunk and CRK is doomed. Mainly, I’m just pointing out that this issue is on some level subjective, and it is a fallacy to say any titanium frame lock has “rock solid lock-up”. They simply can’t have that, but that term “rock solid” itself is subjective, as is almost all the content in this thread.
 
kidcongo said:
I’m not arguing that some knives seem more solid than others. My only point here, is this thread is completely subjective unless we get some test results that show newton-meters of force etc. Everyone has their own expectations and opinion, and we have to admit that maybe we have a few defective knives represented here as well.

The lock on a frame-lock is a spring. It will flex when pressured, as it must, being a spring. Even though the idea is it wedges against the tang, the milled “hinge” on any frame lock will flex under pressure. Maybe that is 300PSI to make it flex on certain 21s. It’s not 300psi on my many 21s or my regular.

Anyways......don’t misinterpret my attitude about this whole thing. I’m not trying to prove the 31 is the greatest ever. Maybe it is bunk and CRK is doomed. Mainly, I’m just pointing out that this issue is on some level subjective, and it is a fallacy to say any titanium frame lock has “rock solid lock-up”. They simply can’t have that, but that term “rock solid” itself is subjective, as is almost all the content in this thread.
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Your middle comment is accurate. I had a conversation with Chris Reeve and he mentioned that the frame lock bulges where the hinge is milled as you stated. Definitely a conversation that I will always cherish.
 
nyefmaker said:
Your middle comment is accurate. I had a conversation with Chris Reeve and he mentioned that the frame lock bulges where the hinge is milled as you stated. Definitely a conversation that I will always cherish.
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He’d be on my list of people I’d like to meet. I certainly have got a lot of utility and enjoyment out of his designs.
 
kidcongo said:
He’d be on my list of people I’d like to meet. I certainly have got a lot of utility and enjoyment out of his designs.
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I talked to him on the phone twice. Was planning a trip to Idaho to go to CRK and meet him, but he retired. I am sure I was like a little kid in awe of their hero when we spoke....lol.

I definitely agree. Amazing designs. I have owned hundreds of them and have enjoyed them all.
 
rxavage said:
Great post bro. Keep that riveting content coming.
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The fella was just saying something in defence of my ideas. Let’s not devolve this conversation further. We all share a passion for the subject, which can make the debates get unnecessarily personal.

Your point is noted. Thanks for your contributions here.
 
kidcongo said:
The fella was just saying something in defence of my ideas. Let’s not devolve this conversation further. We all share a passion for the subject, which can make the debates get unnecessarily personal.

Your point is noted. Thanks for your contributions here.
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when exactly was that? stop being a hypocrite
 
Am I understanding this correctly? A Sebenza 31 that has so much lock flex that the blade/lock interface makes a clicking sound when locked open is per factory spec and OK for use?
 
Honed_Edge said:
Kind of summarizing my thoughts on all this so far. I'm nervous to reply, it's still hot in here. No quotes so it's not personal to anyone.

Seems that the 31 flexes more than a lot of other frame locks with less effort. If you apply enough force to the tip of a frame lock, it will start to close and eventually fail shut. So ya, all frame locks will flex. Some people are pushing really hard and say they all flex, some are pushing with less force and seeing very little flex. They all flex with enough pressure, just ask Cold Steel! It's just not all fingers are created equal. I have medium power hands but I could flex the hell out of stuff my wife couldn't budge. Some here are tradesmen with bear paws, others are more office people. Watch axis lock destruction videos, they flex like we are discussing.

AND... This is bothering me. A lock can easily flex and making unsettling popping sounds without failing. We don't need vast reports, or even limited reports, of failure to not like how a lock performs.

No reports of failure on the 31, but that doesn't mean the lock isn't more like wet spaghetti compared to a 21. It just means the 31 doesn't close when you're not ready.
Some have flex in the 31, but some push really hard like some gorilla in the Congo.
Some have little/no flex in the 31, but some seem to be limited in their dactyl strength.

We don't really know what's going on here. I'm almost ashamed to add to the 31 pages. We can't correlate weak pushers from strong pushers and defective/clicky locks from normal in this forum. I honestly think it boils down to the 31 flexing a little more than other knives including CRK's. The locking triangle seems to have changed a little and it looks like it gives the blade more mechanical advantage over the lock. This means less effort is needed on the blade and also links to the greater distance the lock moves vs a 21. You move the jack handle a long distance, it moves the heavy car a little. You are jacking down on the blade and it's "lifting" the lock bar. The 31's design just makes the issue that all frame/liner locks have worse.

It sucks to me. I know of how "it used to be". As time passes and newcomers find CRK, then the 31 be what they fall in love with and the 41 will be the problem. My parents love cars from a certain era when they were young. I like cars from the time I was also that age. I'm sure the 21 ruffled feathers when new. I'm glad that I've acquired enough 21's that I simply don't care about this issue. CRK is not going anywhere, they are busy as hell and will need to dig out of the backlog they now face. My favorite knife company, and warranty, will still be around as I use the sebenza that is right for me.
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nice write up!
 
V-1 said:
Am I understanding this correctly? A Sebenza 31 that has so much lock flex that the blade/lock interface makes a clicking sound when locked open is per factory spec and OK for use?
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yes, that is what has come from CRK.

That it’s normal for this type of lock. But the variability is huge amongst different 31’s.
 
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So the lock rock is still a problem on the 31s? I just got my first CRK which is a 21 and wanted to add a 31 later, maybe when s45vn blades are out.
 
I get what many are saying here in that most Ti frame locks have some degree of flex as that is inherent in the design.

what I think mostly is that there shouldn’t be the extreme variability that I’ve noticed between the knives and that CRK shouldn’t have just come out and said, “it’s normal” without really looking at things further.

The lock may never actually fail in normal use, but who wants to be the first to see??
 
You gotta think at least a handful of people have had a camera rolling trying to get the 31 to fail so they could be the first upload a video of it. That gives me hope for the model, but I have found a trade for mine. Just the Large 21 clip I was in the market for when I bought the 31 (dealer email about availability really early in the release cycle got the best of me). I had a few pass through my collection and wanted to add one before they became harder to come by.

Even though I wasn't happy with my 31 I'm still not convinced the lock has a higher failure rate than the 21, but sometimes you just can't shake the feel of something. My first point above is the main thing giving me confidence in the lock. In the end the canted clip will still go down as the change I liked the least (ruins the lines on the lockside of a PJ with zero benefit). But again, mine seemed to be one of the least problematic.

I'll be optimistically watching the Small 31 Micarta Insingo when it comes out.
 
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