Sebenza 31 Lock Rock?!

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mds694 said:
My question remains though, why was this not a big deal when the Inkosi was originally released? Maybe it was and I just don’t know about it. But it sure looks like Chris got off scot-free on this one and now that he’s gone there’s an outrage. So to say he would be on here addressing the issue seems inaccurate given he had a chance to when he originally released this new lockface design on the Inkosi.
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I hadn't heard much about it on the other knife, but it may be in part that Chris was adding a knife to the lineup, not replacing a beloved knife like the 21 with it. From what I am hearing from some members it has to do with the thinner lock face of the 31 and maybe the angle, but that is members opinions and guesses not the designers. If the 31 is going to replace the 21 it should be a better knife, and if I were them I would make it clear why they felt that way. This is a major product launch .
But again if there was a 39 page thread critical of Chris's new knife he wouldn't just sit back and hope it blew over. If he got a pass before, he got a pass, but this isn't and needs to be addressed IMO
If we are being harder on Tim then Chris, so be it. Nobody promised life to be fair. Chris earned his respect. Up until now Tim had fallen into a pretty easy gig(compared to building from scratch). The company was made, he just had to not screw it up.
Not to be misunderstood-I am not at this time saying he has screwed anything up, I am just encouraging him to get into the discussion and expand past a 1 line it's normal comment. He doesn't have to answer every post, just explain his product better and why he went this way and if they are going to make changes or have. If he can't defend it, it likely was a mistake to launch it.

I think that is all I have to say. The ball is in their court.
 
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mds694 said:
My question remains though, why was this not a big deal when the Inkosi was originally released? Maybe it was and I just don’t know about it. But it sure looks like Chris got off scot-free on this one and now that he’s gone there’s an outrage. So to say he would be on here addressing the issue seems inaccurate given he had a chance to when he originally released this new lockface design on the Inkosi.
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The lockface design on the Inkosi is not new. The Inkosi replaced the Sebenza 25 which has the same lockface design. The life of the 25 was 4 years, most people felt calling it a Sebenza was wrong. The Unmunzaan which has been out a while has the same lockface design. So, the ceramic ball lock face is something that has been around and proven. If there was any issues, they weren't reported. @nyefmaker has reported the Umnumzaan has experienced lock failure on more than one occasion.
Maybe the lock flex/rock has always been there with the original design of the Umnumzaan, maybe the same design that was incorporated into the 31 is magnified more and is indeed noticeable. Currently, I don't have a 31, got one on order but it will be a bit before it's built. With the CRK's I currently have, I don't know if I know what to look for since they all seem solid to me. Of course, most all the time I put a CRK in my pocket, use it when needed, put it back in my pocket when I'm done with it. With me doing that, taking one apart for cleaning, sharpening and wiping down, I've yet to find any issues with mine. Maybe I need to fidget with them a little more or need better lighting to see what's really going on.
 
I've just sent CRK an email regarding some of the concerns the knife community has had about the sebenza 31 and whether or not they will be releasing a statement. I'm hoping they'll respond soon as keeping us relatively uninformed about the issue, in my opinion, is making matters even worse.
 
For what it's worth, I just received my third small 31 in the mail (plain, micarta inlay, and now a wood inlay). I bought my first Sebenza in the late 1990s, but haven't owned one since then and was eager to have this latest version in my hands.

All three of mine are absolutely rock-solid. No side-to-side play and, with as much pressure as I was willing to apply to the spine, no flex in the lock bar or other movement in this respect. All three could just as well be fixed blades and I couldn't be more pleased with them. I'm sorry for those folks who haven't had the same experience as I have, but I also don't want those people who are unsure about whether to buy one not to hear from at least one very satisfied CR customer.
 
mds694 said:
My question remains though, why was this not a big deal when the Inkosi was originally released? Maybe it was and I just don’t know about it. But it sure looks like Chris got off scot-free on this one and now that he’s gone there’s an outrage. So to say he would be on here addressing the issue seems inaccurate given he had a chance to when he originally released this new lockface design on the Inkosi.
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No issues with either of my two Inkosi’s.
 
I made a separate post about this issue on my Large Inkosi and thought I should leave this here too. I spent $600 so I expect so much more than this..
link to a video my friend sent me regarding the lock rock: https://imgur.com/a/8OfOh5u
 
Forester_01 said:
I've just sent CRK an email regarding some of the concerns the knife community has had about the sebenza 31 and whether or not they will be releasing a statement. I'm hoping they'll respond soon as keeping us relatively uninformed about the issue, in my opinion, is making matters even worse.
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Thank you!

I hope they do respond!
 
grkyle said:
For what it's worth, I just received my third small 31 in the mail (plain, micarta inlay, and now a wood inlay). I bought my first Sebenza in the late 1990s, but haven't owned one since then and was eager to have this latest version in my hands.

All three of mine are absolutely rock-solid. No side-to-side play and, with as much pressure as I was willing to apply to the spine, no flex in the lock bar or other movement in this respect. All three could just as well be fixed blades and I couldn't be more pleased with them. I'm sorry for those folks who haven't had the same experience as I have, but I also don't want those people who are unsure about whether to buy one not to hear from at least one very satisfied CR customer.
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this is the biggest problem in my mind. Not that there is some play and it could be “normal”. That I would be ok with!

but the fact that some have no play at all, some have a little play and others have so much play that the blade comes off the stop pin and clicks.

that’s just not ok however you look at it imho.
 
mds694 said:
My question remains though, why was this not a big deal when the Inkosi was originally released? Maybe it was and I just don’t know about it. But it sure looks like Chris got off scot-free on this one and now that he’s gone there’s an outrage. So to say he would be on here addressing the issue seems inaccurate given he had a chance to when he originally released this new lockface design on the Inkosi.
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First of all...Chris was basically out of the company when the inkosi was designed...he was a “consultant” at that time, as I have come to understand. He did however make the 25 which I have never handled.
Second...and I cant believe I have to say this again...if anyone knows anything about lock geometry, the lockup “triangle” is too close together on the 31’s. The ball is the same size as the inkosi ball in a thinner lockbar.
ETA cause i accidentally hit done...
Where the ceramic ball sits on the lockface of the 31 is higher than where the 21’s ti lockface starts to make contact...therefore a smaller “triangle”. If they dont crimp that ball in there perfect everytime, there will be differences in lockplay at different pressures.
 
Sharp & Fiery said:
First of all...Chris was basically out of the company when the inkosi was designed...he was a “consultant” at that time, as I have come to understand. He did however make the 25 which I have never handled.
Second...and I cant believe I have to say this again...if anyone knows anything about lock geometry, the lockup “triangle” is too close together on the 31’s. The ball is the same size as the inkosi ball in a thinner lockbar.
ETA cause i accidentally hit done...
Where the ceramic ball sits on the lockface of the 31 is higher than where the 21’s ti lockface starts to make contact...therefore a smaller “triangle”. If they dont crimp that ball in there perfect everytime, there will be differences in lockplay at different pressures.
Click to expand...

This could certainly be the case as I know nothing about lockbar geometry. My small 31 was definitely the worst and I suspected it was related to how much thinner the parts are as a whole on the Sebenza. The question remains however why it wasn’t an issue before and now it is. Is their anymore risk of failure than on the other ceramic ball type lockface? I suspect not.
 
Murphjd25 said:
I really can’t believe how bad this is getting. Now it’s the Inkosi. I never would of known if there wasn’t this huge thread about it. I’m happy with my 21s.
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Any lock stick/grit on the 21? Cause that’s what I like about the Inkosi and 31, smooth as butter unlocking.
 
mds694 said:
This could certainly be the case as I know nothing about lockbar geometry. My small 31 was definitely the worst and I suspected it was related to how much thinner the parts are as a whole on the Sebenza. The question remains however why it wasn’t an issue before and now it is. Is their anymore risk of failure than on the other ceramic ball type lockface? I suspect not.
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Well...:) I have an inkosi in my possession for a year now, from a very good friend who I would like to return it to... @Lapedog (where you at man!)
Comparing the my 31 to the inkosi...not only does the ball sit in a wider width from the pivot, but the lockbar is wider.
The inkosi always had a little flex (my zaan too), but to feel it with just my hands, I was putting so much pressure that I was nervous of slipping and cutting my hand. Therefore, to me, in my opinion, it was acceptable, as it was lockflex...which happens on framelocks with enough pressure.
The fact that I can make the 31 flex and make audible sounds without much pressure...that is what concerns me.

I’ve stated this before...if CRK gets a pass on lockrock as “lockflex”, why doesnt every other company?

Interesting FYI...the 31 is literally the Classic ti scales (without the hole), the Inkosi ceramic lock interface, and a 21 blade.

edit for spelling
 
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mds694 said:
Any lock stick/grit on the 21? Cause that’s what I like about the Inkosi and 31, smooth as butter unlocking.
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I will give the Inkosi and 31 that...smooth smooth smooth! Haha. Only reason I dont own an Inkosi myself is because the finger scallops hit my fingers wrong.
ETA:No lockstick/grit on any of my 21’s.
Peter Hartwig said:
Without doubt the thread has caused a flurry of pushing to see if there is any movement on knives that likely wasn't happening before.
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I agree...and in my opinion, the “table test” is ridiculous. The only reason I entered this thread is because of how easily I can manipulate the 31 with just my hands. :)
 
Dude i just checked all my CRKs. Most have this. And i have sebs that are from 2006. I never checked. All my mnandis dont have it. so its not just the 31
 
My first foray into this thread...

I'll reiterate what was asked, has anyone with a complaint sent theirs in to CRK?

We know that they don't have a presence in this forum as of now, so pissing and moaning in a thread they won't read about knives that haven't been sent in solves nothing. I'm a firm believer that if you have a problem with a person or organization, you speak to someone who can do something about it. Some of you have had a bad first experience with CRK and it sounds like you'll choose to not be back with them. I can respect that. They're not guaranteed a second chance. At the same time, villifying Tim or the company without giving them a chance to make things right in each of these cases is asinine. If you don't like it, send it back, send it in, or sell it. Complaining to people who have no power to solve your issue fixes nothing.
 
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