Sebenza 31 Lock Rock?!

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Its good that people are letting others know of the problems they have with a product. Sure, they should let the manufacturer handle the problem, but its for the benefit of all if they let the community know as well. A lot of people has been spared of grief because of this thread.
 
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Where the ceramic ball sits on the lockface of the 31 is higher than where the 21’s ti lockface starts to make contact...therefore a smaller “triangle”. If they dont crimp that ball in there perfect everytime, there will be differences in lockplay at different pressures.
Exactly. The locking triangle, the positioning of the ceramic ball and the hardend stop pin obviously are where the dog is buried with the 31.

That CRK isn't able to communicate the problems with the 31 in a factual, substantial and viable way is disconcerting, to say the least. That they only felt the need to comment on Facebook instead of here in their subforum / in this much more substantial thread paints an even more sorry picture.

After almost two decades and about a dozen CRK Sebenzas in all their major iterations and field dressing (sometimes also butchering) around 200 game animals with them I kind of sense that the company has totally lost the ball. In German there is a word for the malaise that to me seems to have afflicted them: "Wohlstandsdekadenz".
 
My first foray into this thread...

I'll reiterate what was asked, has anyone with a complaint sent theirs in to CRK?

We know that they don't have a presence in this forum as of now, so pissing and moaning in a thread they won't read about knives that haven't been sent in solves nothing. I'm a firm believer that if you have a problem with a person or organization, you speak to someone who can do something about it. Some of you have had a bad first experience with CRK and it sounds like you'll choose to not be back with them. I can respect that. They're not guaranteed a second chance. At the same time, villifying Tim or the company without giving them a chance to make things right in each of these cases is asinine. If you don't like it, send it back, send it in, or sell it. Complaining to people who have no power to solve your issue fixes nothing.

No one here is villifying Tim or the company...please show posts where that has happened.
Also...the people who have called about issues have been told that it is normal. So let me ask you this question...why would I or others pay money to have a “normal” 31 be sent back to CRK just to most likely have them turn around and charge me shipping just to tell me “yep, it’s normal.”?
 
My first foray into this thread...

I'll reiterate what was asked, has anyone with a complaint sent theirs in to CRK?

We know that they don't have a presence in this forum as of now, so pissing and moaning in a thread they won't read about knives that haven't been sent in solves nothing. I'm a firm believer that if you have a problem with a person or organization, you speak to someone who can do something about it. Some of you have had a bad first experience with CRK and it sounds like you'll choose to not be back with them. I can respect that. They're not guaranteed a second chance. At the same time, villifying Tim or the company without giving them a chance to make things right in each of these cases is asinine. If you don't like it, send it back, send it in, or sell it. Complaining to people who have no power to solve your issue fixes nothing.

We are addressing it with CRK since this is a company sponsored forum. The lack of response is on them not the concerned people posting in this thread.
This thread does solve an issue by bringing to light inconsistency in their manufacturing line. It's information both the company and consumer can use.
 
I recently handled two large 31s both with May 2020 birthdays, and both of them could have up and down play induced pretty easily. I have a large Inkosi and Umnumzaan as well and I can force play in those as well, although it requires much more force. I'm beginning to believe that this is an inherent issue with the ceramic ball interface.

Think about it from a physics standpoint. You've got a tiny sphere pressing up against a big flat lockface. Imagine trying to balance a 2x4 on a golf ball. Even if there's only a tiny amount of play between those two surfaces, it's going to translate to exaggerated movement out at the tip.
 
Tortie Tortie , I certainly understand your point of view, but another way to see it is that a lot of people have been put off of purchasing a great knife, the 31, because of this never ending non-productive thread which just keeps running around in circles without any apparent hope of resolution or information from Chris Reeve Knives. I do not blame anyone who has posted here. I blame the lack of any moderator presence. That is squarely on CRK for not properly hosting and moderating their forum.

Now, I notice that some people are becoming unhappy with knives they have enjoyed for years, Inkosi's, Zaan's, and 25's, because of all the pushing, prodding, and flex forcing that is going on.

Only two things seem pretty clear: 1, all frame locks will flex at some point, and 2, the ceramic ball interface seems to make the flexing happen with less force. Apparently, the second point went mostly unnoticed with the earlier ceramic ball interface knives, but now all of these knives are being put under a microscope like never before. That is why it is such a shame that CRK is allowing this whole thing to just keep twisting in the wind.

I have no idea why they refuse to address the issue. Most likely, they are selling a ton of 31's with very few complaints. This thread seems to be the epicenter of the controversy, and they might just be waiting it out. They are also probably very worried that whatever they say will be picked apart and used to make things worse. It does not seem to be a big deal anywhere else. That seems shortsighted to me and unfair to loyal customers. Tim Reeve did post a short video on the fan page where he revealed something important. He mentioned how easy it is to break the lock on a 21, and the ceramic ball interface is a much stronger lock. How ironic! The 21 feels stronger, because it is harder to flex, but the 31 is actually a much stronger lock in spite of the fact that it is apparently easier to flex! Some companies, like GEC, just ignore social media and let the market dictate their success or failure. This is the approach CRK seems to be taking by letting this fester. Time will tell whether or not that was a smart decision.

Again, before anyone gets defensive, I am not being critical of anyone who posted their genuine concerns here. Everyone has a right to their own opinions. I am just pointing out that my 31 is rock solid and probably my best knife. Anyone who is interested in trying one should definitely do so. Just buy from a dealer who accepts returns and send that sucker right back if you do not like it. I suspect that the vast majority of people are quite happy with their 31's, but that is a personal decision each buyer must make.

EDIT, Post #820, Bam!, there is the answer! Thanks Forester_01 Forester_01 . That was like passing a kidney stone. Now it is up to the market place to decide whether the new design was a mistake or not. The ceramic ball interface allows more flex in exchange for a stronger lock and the elimination of lock stick. I believe they should have just ignored the spine wackers trash talk about the 21’s and left good enough alone.

Thanks Sharp & Fiery Sharp & Fiery for your good wishes. I do not think the knives vary as much as our expectations as collectors do. We are very passionate and opinionated about our knives.
 
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Tortie Tortie , I certainly understand your point of view, but another way to see it is that a lot of people have been put off of purchasing a great knife, the 31, because of this never ending non-productive thread which just keeps running around in circles without any apparent hope of resolution or information from Chris Reeve Knives. I do not blame anyone who has posted here. I blame the lack of any moderator presence. That is squarely on CRK for not properly hosting and moderating their forum.

Now, I notice that some people are becoming unhappy with knives they have enjoyed for years, Inkosi's, Zaan's, and 25's, because of all the pushing, prodding, and flex forcing that is going on.

Only two things seem pretty clear: 1, all frame locks will flex at some point, and 2, the ceramic ball interface seems to make the flexing happen with less force. Apparently, the second point went mostly unnoticed with the earlier ceramic ball interface knives, but now all of these knives are being put under a microscope like never before. That is why it is such a shame that CRK is allowing this whole thing to just keep twisting in the wind.

I have no idea why they refuse to address the issue. Most likely, they are selling a ton of 31's with very few complaints. This thread seems to be the epicenter of the controversy, and they might just be waiting it out. They are also probably very worried that whatever they say will be picked apart and used to make things worse. It does not seem to be a big deal anywhere else. That seems shortsighted to me and unfair to loyal customers. Tim Reeve did post a short video on the fan page where he revealed something important. He mentioned how easy it is to break the lock on a 21, and the ceramic ball interface is a much stronger lock. How ironic! The 21 feels stronger, because it is harder to flex, but the 31 is actually a much stronger lock in spite of the fact that it is apparently easier to flex! Some companies, like GEC, just ignore social media and let the market dictate their success or failure. This is the approach CRK seems to be taking by letting this fester. Time will tell whether or not that was a smart decision.

Again, before anyone gets defensive, I am not being critical of anyone who posted their genuine concerns here. Everyone has a right to their own opinions. I am just pointing out that my 31 is rock solid and probably my best knife. Anyone who is interested in trying one should definitely do so. Just buy from a dealer who accepts returns and send that sucker right back if you do not like it. I suspect that the vast majority of people are quite happy with their 31's, but that is a personal decision each buyer must make.

While I don’t agree fully with your assessment...Im not gonna lie...im happy (and a little jealous) that you got a rock solid 31! Enjoy that bad boy! :D
 
CRK has acknowledged that the lock rock exists in their 31 in the very first post of this thread.

What CRK said: "lock play" is normal,with the ceramic ball added to the lock arm,and the shape of the overall lock arm on this model.
 
Although CRK does not call it lock rock, they have acknowledged it exists, and it IS a thing. If that lock rock does not bother people or it does not show up when they use it, more power to them. It's still there though, CRK said so.
 
It's still there though, CRK said so.

Where CRK said there is a problem with Sebenza 31 lock?

Read post #1 what CRK said:

"The "lock rock" you are experience on your 31s is normal.With the ceramic ball added to the lock arm,and shape of the overall lock arm on this model,the blade will rock over the ceramic ball slightly."
 
".... shape of the overall LOCK arm on this model,the blade will ROCK over the ceramic ball slightly...."

We can disagree whether it's a problem or not but at least we can agree that it is there. Mind you, I don't even have a Sebenza, I'm just going with what CRK said.
 
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".... shape of the overall LOCK arm on this model,the blade will ROCK over the ceramic ball slightly...."

We can disagree whether it's a problem or not but at least we can agree that it is there.

So? As CRK said it's NORMAL!
 
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What CRK said: "lock play" is normal,with the ceramic ball added to the lock arm,and the shape of the overall lock arm on this model.

They actually called it Lock Rock in the Email post 1, and stated there was much discussion about it during the design, which to me would translate to some being concerned about it, though I could be wrong since I of course was not there.

Knife buyers can be extremely finicky about movement. They even complain about it in non locked position

It will be interesting to hear from anyone that may have sent one in for repair, if anything was done or it just gets sent back the same.
 
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Here is the response I received from CRK:

"We are aware of the concern from customers but there are no plans to change the design. Lock rock, or vertical blade play, is when a lock begins to move vertically. Unsafe vertical play happens when a lockbar isn't fully engaging and there's a little space between the end of the lockbar and the tang of the blade. This isn't the case with the Sebenza 31.

When applying force to the spine of the Sebenza 31's blade, you will feel some vertical movement. Rest assured, your lock-up is secure. This movement is the lockbar flexing in response to pressure, though the ceramic ball, acting as a fulcrum, will maintain its position against the blade tang. It is very much a sound lock and when put to the test, proves stronger than the heat treated lock on the Sebenza 21. All of our models with ceramic ball interfaces have varying degrees of lock flex so this is not abnormal, though the Sebenza 31 seems to be under extra scrutiny as it is the newest.
All that being said, we do take customer feedback seriously and appreciate you relaying your concerns. Please let me know if you have any questions."
 
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