Sebenza Faults

I am glad to see this sort of thread, personally. I've only been reading this forum for a few months now, and I too have probably read more than a thousand references to the Sebenza. These references seem to crop up in almost any thread, whether it is relevant to the Sebenza or not. Of course, having experienced the almost missionary zeal of the Sebenza devotees I became interested in the knife and began to take more note of what they were saying. Unfortunately, most of these posts were very short and positively laced with absolutes ("best folder", "strongest lock", "best design", "most precise", etc.).

Not being a big believer in Platonic ideals, I didn't really find these sorts of posts to be very helpful. What I have found helpful are the posts in the thread that brownshoe is summarizing. There I saw people that might follow up a glowing description of their Sebenza with a "but I wish the thumbstud was a little different shape." I see those few posts counting towards the quality of the Sebenza more than a thousand "best locking folders" ever could because they carry the credibility of a person who has shown themselves capable of being critical.
 
I think the only problem with the Sebenza is that they cost money... if they were free, I'd have more than the one I have ;-) I also have a Mnandi and its pretty cool too. Has that same costs money problem though. I hope Chris will figure out a way to make the knives for free soon. There are a lot of other makers who also have this problem... if Mr. mayo could bring the price of his TNT down to $0 and the delivery date up to "right now" .... well anyway... :-)
 
Why contact CRK directly? If my experience had been negative, I would have been called a liar.

If it was reported they refused to discuss the subject, you'll still would have said I'm a liar. But then, what would you'll have said if they admitted the problem? It'd be great. Why not do the same on the forums, great public relations and it doesn't get filtered through me.

The only response to those who say it is illegitimate to ask for a response on these forums, is that a host of other companies (Spydreco, WKC, SOG, BUCK and more) do respond. They don't respond to ilegimate requests, but 3 instances of opening in the pocket and with several similar problems with the thumbstud seem legitimate.

Other than through implication, i.e. they haven't responded and CNC gives you inexpensive machining, I have not criticized the company nor the owners. One non-specific negative remark about their pricing policy was stated, but that policy is well known, and in the past without dispute. However, I regret the remark, because CRK does not discuss this subject, rightly so, thus assuring this thread won't receive a company response.
 
If you'd posted this in the Chris Reeve forum, nobody would be calling you a liar for any replies to the thread, and Chris Reeve may have actually noticed your post at some time. To post this thread so close to the SHOT show, and on a forum that Chris Reeve may not even check, you destined the thread to go unnoticed by the manufacturer. Did you even have the consideration to email notify Chris Reeve of the thread, in case they don't check the General Discussion, and ask them to respond?

I see no reason why this thread shouldn’t be deleted and reposted in the Chris Reeve forum, if your actual intention is to notify Chris Reeve in some way, and ask for a favorable outcome. While you’re at it, you’ll get a whole lot more flies with honey, so you may want to massively reword your posts on the subject. If somebody were this outwardly hostile about my design, I wouldn’t give them the time of day.

If you have used a Sebenza in the way in which it was designed to be used, and it failed, then you have a legitimate gripe with the product. If you used a Sebenza it the way you wanted to use it, but not in a way that it was designed to be used, and it failed, then you can recommend a design change to add to the knife’s versatility. This doesn’t mean that the manufacturer will agree with you and make a change, but you’ll have addressed your own concerns. Just make sure that you notify the manufacturer in some way that they will definitely see your concerns. I’ll guess that General Discussion is no safe bet that they’ll see your concerns. Personally, I’d call them on the phone during a less busy part of the year. Nothing is more assured to come to Chris Reeve’s attention than talking to him personally.
 
I don't know if others have already done this or not. But, since notice of this topic seems central to how it is perceived, I tried, to put CRK on notice by pasting the url to this thread on that mnf forum. I'm afraid I'm a little sloppy with the vB code. But, my heart is in the right place and I am still considering a small sbenza for my edc if I can justify the price difference with a bm 705 or mini grip (so far I cannot justify that difference based on what I have read but am open to reevaluating).

Kref
 
Originally posted by brownshoe
Why contact CRK directly? If my experience had been negative, I would have been called a liar.

If it was reported they refused to discuss the subject, you'll still would have said I'm a liar. But then, what would you'll have said if they admitted the problem? It'd be great. Why not do the same on the forums, great public relations and it doesn't get filtered through me.
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:rolleyes:

C'mon - you can do better than that...I have enough faith in CRK that I believe that not only will they discuss it with you, but it is likely that Chris Reeve will speak with you personally. And as long as you treat the man with respect, I have no doubts that he will do the same for you. Heck, I'm certain that even if you disrespect the man, he is enough of a gentleman to still be polite to you.

You're really stretching the credibility of your intentions...

Other than through implication, i.e. they haven't responded and CNC gives you inexpensive machining
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This is a bit misleading isn't it? Let's see here, you have to pay for the cost of the machinery, which is quite expensive. You have to pay for people to program the CNC. You have to have skilled people to operate the CNC. And, let's not forget the fact that you are aiming for incredibly tight tolerances on all machined parts - that means equipment for producing these parts will have to be maintained/replaced more often. For example, BM uses CNC machining also - do you think they hold to the tolerances that CRK does?

Hint: four simple words to live by (on BFC): engage brain, THEN post!

Matthew
 
Brown shoe- you really don't know what you are talking about. To say that if you contact CRK and the result was negative then no one would believe you... as I said in my post above there is a big difference between your desire for some different design features and a problem with the design.... The only negative you will get from CRK is that they don't feel a need to change some things and you take offence to that.That is a brownshoe issue- NOT a design flaw... As far as cost and CNC etc... What do you do for a living... maybe some would think you to be overpaid? Profit is not a dirty word as some would believe. If it is just a CNC issue then why did the benchmade version of the sebbie- mod #950 I think... can't remember for sure, fail? As I sated earlier and you won't answer- you just ignore what you don't like - the "problems" you describe are design issues, not problems.... If you don't like the design fine- find one you do like. As most stated earlier, even a "rabid" fan of the sebenza will not pounce on something else just to prove a cause, we don't have to... but then again most sebenza owners are adults... It is a fact of life that as quality goes up the cost involve skyrocketts for the last bits of perfection that most sebenza owners are willing to pay for. If you or others feel that there is no value in that or just can't afford it and want to put down those who can well fine.
 
Nothing in the initial post has really changed. Let new sebenza buyers know two things. First, they probably should handle the knife before buying to assure that the ergonomics will fit their thumb. Second, be aware that for some, the knife can open unintentionally in your pocket. Again, this is not one opinion, but a summary.

Per design considerations, the above two points about the sebenza can be considered design flaws if the sebenza is truly the best, greatest, etc. production pocket knife in the world. This knife is touted as the one shoe that fits all. This claim is made by many sebenza owners. If my memory serves me, CRK claims as their design objective to make the sebenza the best available pocket knife for all around hard use.

Is this objective met? Judge for yourself.
 
Originally posted by brownshoe
CNC gives you inexpensive machining
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You are completely incorrect w/ this statement. I am involved w/ CNC machining for a living and it is not inexpensive. Initial purchase costs associated w/ materials, maintenance, tooling, labor and other general overhead costs = big $. Especially when all that is factored into small production runs.
 
Originally posted by brownshoe
Per design considerations, the above two points about the sebenza can be considered design flaws if the sebenza is truly the best, greatest, etc. production pocket knife in the world.
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Actually, it’s your reasoning that’s flawed. A folder does not have to be perfect (flawless) to be the "best, greatest, etc. production pocket knife in the world". It just has to be better than all of the others. Perfect is not synonymous with best, and never will be when describing the works of man. I say this, and the Sebenza is not currently even my favorite production folder.

As to your conclusion that the Sebenza is tragically flawed because of your two stated reasons, that’s quite hypocritical. There is no knife that fits everybody’s hand perfectly. Does this mean that we’ll be seeing flame threads from you for every folder on the market, debunking manufacturer’s claims that their knives are ergonomic? Or is Chris Reeve the only manufacturer with loyal customers, who believe that their favorite manufacturer makes the best knife in the industry, and don’t have a problem saying so?
 
Brown shoe you are correct nothing has changed from your first post... You throw stuff out to misinform and have no proof of your own....you say the CRK says his knife is "If my memory serves me, CRK claims as their design objective to make the sebenza the best available pocket knife for all around hard use. " where does CRK state that- they have never claimed any of the outrageous stuff, some of the owners may but you don't even know the man and you cast aspersions about him and his company as though you are giving out pearls of wisdom. Below is the page from his website where he talks about the sebenza... I guess your memory and your thinking is flawed ALSO your lie of for some the knife may open unintentially- the numbers are statistically not very significant and there are other knives that have opened in the same manner... it is the nature of the beast. ANY folder can open in a pocket under the right circumstances even if it has not yet. These are sharp tools that need to be respected. They can and do bite occasionally, especially when not carried statically- there are variables and movement. I have been bitten by several knives over the years, never a sebenza and do not feel the need to cry about it.

As BuZZBAIT states one does not have to be perfect to be the best. every week has bowling turnaments and never has the winner ever bowled 100% perfect games...
and they are the best at the game

From the CRK site:

"...My first impressions of the liner lock style locking mechanisms were very favorable but when I examined it more closely, I decided that I didn't much like the flimsiness of the thin liner. After some thought, I redesigned the concept and have created the Sebenza Integral Lock© which I believe to be the most rugged folding knife on the market.
My one piece knives have achieved popularity as strong working fixed blades through simple, effective design, and the Sebenza is a folding knife to complement them. I have put a great deal of thought into the different features and know that this is a knife which will work hard, keep a good edge and will be easy to maintain.

Each knife is supplied with an Allen wrench which can be used to dismantle the knife. This allows easy cleaning -- a drop of silicone or teflon gun oil needs to be put on the hinge after cleaning..."



Specifications
Blade material
Handle material
Spacers and pins
Blade length
Handle length
Weight LARGE SEBENZA
1/8" S30V stainless steel
0.150" 6AL4V titanium
303 stainless steel
3-1/2 inches
4-3/4 inches
4.5 oz. SMALL SEBENZA
1/8" S30V stainless steel
1/8" 6AL4V titanium
303 stainless steel
2-7/8 inches
4 inches
3 oz.





"...The Zulu warrior was one of the most effective of his time. This reputation was achieved with strong discipline, simple battle strategies and weapons used with devastating efficiency. Many of the Zulu people still live their lives in a simplistic, no-nonsense way and maybe some of this has rubbed off on me, resulting in my simple, no-nonsense approach to knife-making..." Chris Reeve
A folding knife which is designed to be strong, durable, robust and able to be operated with one hand needs to be simple and effective. The Sebenza Integral Lock is just that. Available in two sizes and in left and right handed models, this folding knife derives its name from the Zulu word for "Work". Zulu is the native language of province in South Africa where Chris was born and raised.
 
1. The blades are hand ground, the handle slabs are CNC'd. I know a guy who used to grind the blades. It is not a case of throwing S30V BG42, and titanium into the machine and Sebenza's come out!

2. I prefer tip down carry also, and have knives that are so, but I don't care that my Sebenza is tip up because I don't carry it in my pocket. I bought it for military use and things in your "unbuttoned" pockets get lost. My Sebenza is a tool and I keep it in a pouch on my belt where it will always be when I need it. I'm not going to have to "speed-draw" the thing to knife fight with an Al-Quida soldier.

3. I choose my tools carefully and found the blade design perfect for cutting (what the heck's a knife for anyway?), the locking system strong as an ox, and the whole knife very much worth the cost.

4. ...and lastly, it is the folder I have chosen for which I may have to bet my life on. Did I mention I choose my tools very carefully?

5. Chris Reeve still can't make enough of them to allow one to order today and ship today! Someone seems to be satisfied.

6. ...and Brownshoe, I too think your credibility is suspect if you are only familiar with the Sebenza by proxy -- "analytical" techniques or not.

Bruce Woodbury
 
come on...isn't there a knife that is at least as good as a Sebenza?

Microtech? MOD? Benchmade? Emerson?

Anyone have a couple of knives from these makers...can you explain the difference between the quality of these other knives compared to the Sebenza?

Just wondered 'cos i don't really have any expensive knives. So don't really know what the differences are...
 
The BEST knife?

A $5.00 folder from a flea market!

Because it is the ONLY knife made on which we can ALL agree - it's a POS! :D
 
Originally posted by Point44
come on...isn't there a knife that is at least as good as a Sebenza?
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There are lots of custom knives that are probably every bit as good as a Sebenza, and better looking too. But I haven't yet found a production tactical folder that competes with the Sebenza in the areas where it excels. The precision craftsmanship of the Sebenza is staggering. The attention to detail is mind blowing. The cutting ability is superb. The lock is beautifully solid. The knife is very easy to disassemble and clean.

There are production folders that possess the utility value of the Sebenza. Just look at the BM710 or Spyderco Military. These folders are cutting machines and quite handy. Some production folders may even have more ultimate utility value than the Seb. But I haven’t found any production folder that earns the pride of ownership that the Seb does. The Seb is a study in quality.
 
Originally posted by Point44
come on...isn't there a knife that is at least as good as a Sebenza?

Microtech? MOD? Benchmade? Emerson?

Anyone have a couple of knives from these makers...can you explain the difference between the quality of these other knives compared to the Sebenza?

Just wondered 'cos i don't really have any expensive knives. So don't really know what the differences are...
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I've tried samples of three of the four brands you list above, and others, the only one I've found that comes close is the Microtech LCC, and yes I own other Microtechs, SOCOM elite, L-UDT, and they're great knives, but I think only my LCC is in the same class with my Sebi. BM 690,730, great knives, but definately below Microtech on my estimation scale. Emerson CQC-7 just below the BM's in my estimation. Don't own an MOD but the few I've seen, I'd probably rate between BM's and Microtechs. Higher-end Spyderco's, just below BM's with Emerson. Al-Mar SERE, between BM's and Microtech. At least that's how I rate them, some have traits I like better than others, for but as always, it's just my opinion. If you're looking for your first expensive production folder, I've seen MT LCC D/A's under $200 new, and I've seen pre-owned Sebies LNIB for $250. Those would be my top picks.
 
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