Sebenza Overrated?

[Tony8179]

No, I'm not. Just stating a fact. I'll repeat, I've never knocked its quality. However, I know about MSRP vs actual cost/s, etc. So, for me, after all was said and done, I walked away feeling they weren't worth the asking price. Again, I'd go $200 - $250, but no more.

Yeah, you're really just grasping by stating that fact. Again I'll ask, what turned you off from the knife when you owned or handled it? Have you owned or handled one? School me on MSRP vs. Actual cost at the CRK factory please. Tell me when you ran the floor and did their budget. Please tell me how CRK is making $200 - $150 on every knife they sell. Dude, you're full of it. You're another one that just keeps yapping and digging that hole.

 

[RubiconSS]

Um, it's actually not that many compared to the rest of the Universe, outside of this and/or any other knife-related forum. Remember, there are knife enthusiasts here. The true majority of the population aren't even aware of these exchanges.

"Um" you weren't able to deduce the obvious intent in my reference that "majority" meant here? Believe it or not there are even "knife enthusiasts" that don't spend time on this or any other knife forum. Why? Because they couldn't care less about debates like these. They are actually enjoying knives and other hobbies.
As I said before, I've never seen "enthusiasts" in any other arena debate an object of desire within their hobby like the Sebenza is here. It really is an anomoly. The only thing I ever saw that came close was the K&N air filter on Automobile forums. Whether Jeep or Mustang or Racing.... inevitably the question would be posed " Is the K&N cold air intake worth the money" interestingly about the same price as the Sebenza the endless debate no less mind numbing.

 

[risen]

Yeah, you're really just grasping by stating that fact. Again I'll ask, what turned you off from the knife when you owned or handled it? Have you owned or handled one? School me on MSRP vs. Actual cost at the CRK factory please. Tell me when you ran the floor and did their budget. Please tell me how CRK is making $200 - $150 on every knife they sell. Dude, you're full of it. You're another one that just keeps yapping and digging that hole.

Seems like you're grasping, desperate to want to prove *your* point in a discussion where folks are just sharing opinions.

I've already answered your question, if you keep asking, you're only showing stupidity, especially since *if* you had read my posts, I've already stated that I have indeed handled them on more than one occasion. Marketing/MSRP is a standard process. Read a book.

 

[risen]

...I've never seen "enthusiasts" in any other arena debate an object of desire within their hobby like the Sebenza is here. It really is an anomoly. ...

It's called fanaticism.

 

[Spark]

Call me a fanatic then. Unlike a couple companies I could name, when you get a Chris Reeve knife, you are getting something with the absolute top quality fit, finish, and construction. No rough edges. No burrs. No bead blasted garbage, rust, dings, blemishes, mismatched scales, scratches, etc. No excuses for crappy workmanship either, or poser fanboys. In all the years I've been handling them, I can't remember a company that's had less quality control problems.

There's a reason they keep winning top manufacturing awards.

 

[Gator97]

Yeah, I'm just writhing in pain because I was ripped off or can't justify the money I've spent on them.

Please, stop the pain.....

You know there's one thing, once people invest into something, they don't easily admit it was wrong. Given your collection of Sebenzas it's very unlikely you will be objective in your assessment. Criticizing them isn't in your interest either.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not asking you to do that, but your "you don't understand a thing" attitude doesn't help/explain anything, except reinforce certain opinion about CRK fans.

P.S. Out of curiosity, that's a sikayo in your pictures right? Chef's knife, made by CRK, S35VN steel, 57HRC. I am curious, what's your assessment of that piece as a kitchen knife. That thing did win best kitchen knife award in 2009 blade show, if I am not mistaken, right?

 

[Tony8179]

Seems like you're grasping, desperate to want to prove *your* point in a discussion where folks are just sharing opinions.

I've already answered your question, if you keep asking, you're only showing stupidity, especially since *if* you had read my posts, I've already stated that I have indeed handled them on more than one occasion. Marketing/MSRP is a standard process. Read a book.

I'm not grasping at all. Nor am I trying to prove a point. The point has already been proven. 20 years of sales and countless awards shows alot more proof than I ever could.

So you've handled the knife. At least you've got a step up on the other guy. Did you happen to use it, carry it in your pocket for a few weeks, see what it can handle?

You're right Marketing/MSRP is a standard process, but works differently for each business structure. So tell me exactly how it works with CRK's business structure. What's their overhead? What do they pay their line workers? What did they pay for their machinery? What do they pay to keep that machinery in proper working order?

Don't try to talk to me like I'm stupid Sonny Jim. You've got to have a helluva lot more brains than you to try and go that route.

 

[Ankerson]

Call me a fanatic then. Unlike a couple companies I could name, when you get a Chris Reeve knife, you are getting something with the absolute top quality fit, finish, and construction. No rough edges. No burrs. No bead blasted garbage, rust, dings, blemishes, mismatched scales, scratches, etc. No excuses for crappy workmanship either. In all the years I've been handling them, I can't remember a company that's had less quality control problems.

There's a reason they keep winning top manufacturing awards.

I think that sums it up.

 

[dinokay]

It is far from overrated, first we have to look at where it's coming from. A knife doesn't have this kind of following for this long if it weren't special, like a good restaurant it's only as good as your last meal and Chris Reeves has been serving great knives from day one for a very long time. You don't get this type of following if you make mistakes here and there.
I have a large P stamped sebenza Chris Reeves (the man himself) sold me in the mid 90's and have found myself comparing every folder I purchase to my sebenza. If you want to know whats going on with the sebenza you need to talk to the sebenza owners and hear what they have to say (pluses and minuses). Even then, its like someone describing the Grand Canyon to you, unless you go there yourself its all an illusion in your head even with pictures so buy one and let us know is the Sebenza overrated?

 

[Jeremy Barnard]

You have been proven wrong, you're just not intelligent enough for it to have clicked yet.

Insults will get you no where.

If and when you handle and use a Sebenza, you might have more information and observations to inform your comparison.

I would love to handle one and find. Unfortunately for the price I'll have to pass.

Why would someone spend $125 on a Benchmade when they can get the same exact performance from a $50 Kershaw Blur or a $50 Spyderco Endura? Why would someone spend $50 on a Kershaw Blur when they can spen $30 on a Kershaw Whilrwind? Because they buy what they like!

Why would I spend $750 on a custom knife? Because I buy what I like!

Why do you spend $125 on a Benchmade when I think that they don't know how to sharpen a knife in the factory? Because you buy what you like.

I'm glad you brought this up. If you look at knives in the different price ranges you will notice that the materials used in the knives about top out at 100-200. titanium, carbon fiber, g10 etc. for handles and anything from 154 cm, s30v, s90v, etc. steels can all be found in that price range. You will also find these knives to be of very high quality and f&f, no blade play, solid lock up, etc. The lower the price the less expensive materials used and possibly less of a quality f&f. That's not to say it's any less of a cutter but the increase in price is because of something substantial, the materials and craftsmanship.

When you look at a more expensive knife, in this case the sebenza you see a much higher price then the 100-200 range but yet the materials are basically the same. The blade play, ff, lockup will also be very good. That is where I don't understand. The materials aren't any better. The blade play, ff, lockup, tolerances are already so good on the 1-200 knives does the .0005 really mean anything? Will it even be noticeable? If it is does that justify a $200 price increase? I'm not so sure that it is and I can't imagine something being any tighter then a top of the line BM or Spyderco.

I understand that some people may love the look, design of the knife, the ff, materials and quality and I don't have a problem how someone else spends their money. If they like it enough to buy it that's all that matters.

 

[risen]

Call me a fanatic then. Unlike a couple companies I could name, when you get a Chris Reeve knife, you are getting something with the absolute top quality fit, finish, and construction. No rough edges. No burrs. No bead blasted garbage, rust, dings, blemishes, mismatched scales, scratches, etc. No excuses for crappy workmanship either, or poser fanboys. In all the years I've been handling them, I can't remember a company that's had less quality control problems.

There's a reason they keep winning top manufacturing awards.

Seems like we're in agreement regarding quality, which I've repeatedly acknowledged.

But, I'm not a fanatic about the price, which is why it's not worth MSRP for me.

 

[Robert.B]

Seems like we're in agreement regarding quality, which I've repeatedly acknowledged.

But, I'm not a fanatic about the price, which is why it's not worth MSRP for me.

If you pay $385.00 for your knife and it lasts you 20 years of solid, unwaivering service...that is $19.25 per year, seems like a small price to pay for a tool that will last a life time.

When my situation turns around, I'll buy one, I'll use it, I'll enjoy it. :thumbup:

 

[giant1]

Benchmade and Spyderco sure do. They make just as good knives with better blade steels at a much, much lower price.

If you had any credibility in this topic before this post it would have been completely blown away as soon as you hit submit reply.

But you did not have any to lose so no harm done

 

[Tony8179]

I'm glad you brought this up. If you look at knives in the different price ranges you will notice that the materials used in the knives about top out at 100-200. titanium, carbon fiber, g10 etc. for handles and anything from 154 cm, s30v, s90v, etc. steels can all be found in that price range. You will also find these knives to be of very high quality and f&f, no blade play, solid lock up, etc. The lower the price the less expensive materials used and possibly less of a quality f&f. That's not to say it's any less of a cutter but the increase in price is because of something substantial, the materials and craftsmanship.

And this is where you're extra money for the Sebenza is going.

When you look at a more expensive knife, in this case the sebenza you see a much higher price then the 100-200 range but yet the materials are basically the same. The blade play, ff, lockup will also be very good. That is where I don't understand. The materials aren't any better. The blade play, ff, lockup, tolerances are already so good on the 1-200 knives does the .0005 really mean anything?

This is where you answer your own question by actually owning or at least handling and using one.

Will it even be noticeable?

Obviously it is since they've been selling for as long as they have at the price points they do.

If it is does that justify a $200 price increase?

According to two major players in the knife game Thomas W. from Kershaw and Sal from Sypderco, yes it does.

I'm not so sure that it is and I can't imagine something being any tighter then a top of the line BM or Spyderco.

And that is becasue you still have never owned, handled, or used one.

You can keep up with your argument all you want. You're fighting a battle that is unwinnable. AFAIC, you shot yourself in the foot as soon as you admitted to never owning, handling, or using one.

 

[dinokay]

I think most of you guys forget where this question is coming from, for someone to ask if something is overrated says they feel its overrated and "so prove to me its not". Only the person putting forth the question can answer it by experiencing it himself. Buy one and then come back and lets discuss if its overrated.

 

[Jeremy Barnard]

You can keep up with your argument all you want. You're fighting a battle that is unwinnable. AFAIC, you shot yourself in the foot as soon as you admitted to never owning, handling, or using one.

I have said all there is needed to be said The same materials and craftsmanship at an inflated price is what you get with a sebenza. No I understand it's not able to be won as long as there are people with more money then brains and I understand you are a fan boy and you would never bring an ounce of criticism against something you tossed so much money into. I do not need to handle a Sebenza to know how well a BM and Spyderco are put together along with the good materials and ff. It wont get any better. Prove me wrong. I don't think you can. Keep touting How I am wrong up on your high horse fondeling your over priced knives and try to justify or prove something which you can not. It always will come back to a Sebenza fan boy saying the ff, .0005 tolerances, craftsmanship, etc even though you get just as good if not a better knife with any top of the line BM or Spyderco. /thread

 

[kawr]

Seems like we're in agreement regarding quality, which I've repeatedly acknowledged.

But, I'm not a fanatic about the price, which is why it's not worth MSRP for me.

Quality = money. Why is that so hard to understand.

 

[Gator97]

If you pay $385.00 for your knife and it lasts you 20 years of solid, unwaivering service..

There is a problem though. If I really use that knife, and try to keep it sharp, it won't last half of that, because of the softer steel. What people seem to forget is that the proverbial "ease of sharpening" directly translates into "frequent sharpening", ergo more removed metal, thus reducing the useful lifespan of the blade.
On the other hand, people who open envelope or two in a week, don't really need to sharpen them that often and then it serves 50 years or more. So will most of the high end production folders though.

BTW, "solid, unwavering service" definition varies, from person to person. What you consider solid may not seem so solid to someone else, and vice versa. If all you want from your knife is solid lockup and no bladeplay, doesn't mean everyone else can't have additional requirements to consider said service to be "solid".

 

[Tony8179]

I have said all there is needed to be said The same materials and craftsmanship at an inflated price is what you get with a sebenza. No I understand it's not able to be won as long as there are people with more money then brains and I understand you are a fan boy and you would never bring an ounce of criticism against something you tossed so much money into. I do not need to handle a Sebenza to know how well a BM and Spyderco are put together along with the good materials and ff. It wont get any better. Prove me wrong. I don't think you can. Keep touting How I am wrong up on your high horse fondeling your over priced knives and try to justify or prove something which you can not. It always will come back to a Sebenza fan boy saying the ff, .0005 tolerances, craftsmanship, etc even though you get just as good if not a better knife with any top of the line BM or Spyderco. /thread

The funny part is that I'm not even a fanboy. I'm never on the CRK forum and I carry other knives far more than I carry my Sebenza. I would tout $600 RJ Martin customs over a Sebenza any day. You can stay in the shallow end of the pool if you want. Swimming in the deep end costs money. It's just the way it is. I didn't make it that way.

The difference between you and I is that my opinion at least holds a small amount of water because I've actually used the knife. You think you know, but you know nothing. Ignorance is bliss huh?

Edit: You seem to love Spydercos, but you refuse to listen to or even acknowledge the very words that the president of the company said himself.

 

[kawr]

There is a problem though. If I really use that knife, and try to keep it sharp, it won't last half of that, because of the softer steel. What people seem to forget is that the proverbial "ease of sharpening" directly translates into "frequent sharpening", ergo more removed metal, thus reducing the useful lifespan of the blade.
On the other hand, people who open envelope or two in a week, don't really need to sharpen them that often and then it serves 50 years or more. So will most of the high end production folders though.

BTW, "solid, unwavering service" definition varies, from person to person. What you consider solid may not seem so solid to someone else, and vice versa. If all you want from your knife is solid lockup and no bladeplay, doesn't mean everyone else can't have additional requirements to consider said service to be "solid".

Except CRK will replace that blade when the time comes. As well refurbish everything else that needs to be done. Lifetime warranty on any issues caused by normal wear so your point is moot. I've seen plenty of 20 year old sebbies that are still chuggin along just fine.