Sebenza

[flipe8]

They already put out a ton of them. Have you seen their catalog recently? Everything over $60 street is in CTS-XHP, VG1 SM3 or CPM 3V. They've even got a slipjoint in S35VN with carbon fiber handles.
If titanium is what you want, there's the 4-Max, though I think skeletonized steel liners would be better (the knife is already an overbuilt beast, the extra ounces wouldn't hurt it IMO). Then again, I don't think liners are necessary at all with a G-10 handle.

I don't see anything that hits what I'm talking about. I'm not talking about a Mini Lawman with better blade steel or a 4-Max that is considerably larger/heavier than a Small Sebenza. Slip joint kinda misses the point, seeing that it doesn't come with a Triad lock.

 

[Humint]

Well of course you don't care about the RAO. No Cold Steel apologist would. But the fact is, the RAO is out there and if Andrew is right, it's probably stronger than any folder made by Cold Steel. Sometimes the truth hurts.

First off I'm not a Cold Steel apologist. The whole reason I could care less about the RAO is in order to make it secure you need to hands. I don't want to ever carry a folding knife that you need to hands to make it secure. That has to be one of the dumbest things in the world in my own opinion. Here's my opinion though the Triad lock has beat every single knife put up against it in those tests. You can't say it's not strong. But guess what knife rides in my pocket every single day? A CRK Small Micarta Sebenza 21. To me this is the single best "pocket knife" in the world. If I need to use something larger I use a Benchmade Griptilian or a Spyderco Military. If I know I'm going to do stupid abusive tasks with a knife just for fun I use a cold steel or a fixed blade. But I never carry a cold steel in my pocket at all. It is regulated to a backpack or briefcase for emergencies or stupid fun use only.

 

[bld522]

If titanium is what you want, there's the 4-Max, though I think skeletonized steel liners would be better (the knife is already an overbuilt beast, the extra ounces wouldn't hurt it IMO). Then again, I don't think liners are necessary at all with a G-10 handle.

I agree. The 4-MAX is a beast . . . even if it isn't the strongest folding 4" (give or take 3/4 of an inch) folding knife in the world! And the proof of the pudding is in the fact that Cold Steel appears to have changed their description of the 4-MAX. On their web site, their original description reads "[t]his over-built beast is without a doubt the strongest knife we have ever produced and we're willing to bet that right now, it's the strongest 4" folding knife in the world!" But on KC, that sentence has been changed to, "[t]his over-built beast is without a doubt the strongest knife that Cold Steel has ever produced and perhaps one of the strongest 4" folding knife in the world!" [Emphasis added.] Guess we know who won that round . . .

 

[cchu518]

I love CRK's. I work in the capital markets and part of what I do has a marketing aspect to it. The CS videos while stupid and redundant keeps ppl talking about their knives.

The truth is they've turned around and are producing some solid knives. I bought a lucky this year, have a mini tuff lite come in, and am looking to get a code 4 or a mini lawman as well. In some ways the vs videos detracts from the fact that they are making some very good knives. It's possible though without the buzz generated from the forum about these videos I might not have given them a Second chance.

I remember the first cold steel I ever handled was a folding blade with a 3 inch blade from the early 90s. It was my dad's and the claim to fame was punching it through a car door.

I don't know what I was thinking but I had it in hand and jammed it through my dresser and chipped the tip off the blade. Lol. Man that was fun. My dad wasn't too happy about it at that time though... So it's been 20 years since revisiting the brand. Keeping the buzz up in digital media is really hard to do and they've made excellent use of venues such as you tube maybe more so than any other knife brand so hat's off to them.

It still ain't no CRK though, variety is the spice of life as they say. Why not have on one or two of everything that you like it's your lives!

 

[flipe8]

Here's my opinion though the Triad lock has beat every single knife put up against it in those tests. You can't say it's not strong. But guess what knife rides in my pocket every single day? A CRK Small Micarta Sebenza 21. To me this is the single best "pocket knife" in the world. If I need to use something larger I use a Benchmade Griptilian or a Spyderco Military. If I know I'm going to do stupid abusive tasks with a knife just for fun I use a cold steel or a fixed blade. But I never carry a cold steel in my pocket at all. It is regulated to a backpack or briefcase for emergencies or stupid fun use only.

I see what you're getting at and I think if CS is looking to get into the market the CRK occupies, they're gonna have to make a few knives in that market, not just have knives that are stronger than CRKs. I honestly doubt there is going to be a massive number of threads created where forum members are gonna state they have $400 to spend and the two knives they're looking at are a Small Sebenza or a Code 4. I just don't see, even if the Code 4 out performs the CRK(we all know it's stronger). Just my opinion, though.

 

[ivanhoe]

Well of course you don't care about the RAO. No Cold Steel apologist would. But the fact is, the RAO is out there and if Andrew is right, it's probably stronger than any folder made by Cold Steel. Sometimes the truth hurts.

I just looked up RAO2 on Youtube, and the lock seems to be a horizontal variation on axis lock.

What else makes that folder so hard? Do you consider the screw-in pin a locking system?

Sorry if the question is dum; I just didn't look into / read about any ER knives before. Thanks!

 

[ivanhoe]

I don't know what I was thinking but I had it in hand and jammed it through my dresser and chipped the tip off the blade. Lol. Man that was fun. My dad wasn't too happy about it at that time though...

Man this got me laughing more than it should

 

[Humint]

I see what you're getting at and I think if CS is looking to get into the market the CRK occupies, they're gonna have to make a few knives in that market, not just have knives that are stronger than CRKs. I honestly doubt there is going to be a massive number of threads created where forum members are gonna state they have $400 to spend and the two knives they're looking at are a Small Sebenza or a Code 4. I just don't see, even if the Code 4 out performs the CRK(we all know it's stronger). Just my opinion, though.

I agree with you 100%. I don't even think cold steel should try to compete in the CRK market. There's a lot of people that bump on cold steel really in my opinion for no reason at all. I understand Lymn is a very polarizing figure. Honestly I would not be buying cold steel knives unless it was not for DEMKO. Andrew is really a class act and a genius knife designer. But no cold steel knife to date can take the place of an every day carry like my small Sebenza.

 

[cchu518]

I see what you're getting at and I think if CS is looking to get into the market the CRK occupies, they're gonna have to make a few knives in that market, not just have knives that are stronger than CRKs. I honestly doubt there is going to be a massive number of threads created where forum members are gonna state they have $400 to spend and the two knives they're looking at are a Small Sebenza or a Code 4. I just don't see, even if the Code 4 out performs the CRK(we all know it's stronger). Just my opinion, though.

Its actually not a bad comparison. I put them both in the "has flat scales" category which is my favorite kinda knife handle for compact carry.

In most cases if someone knows about or has a crk, they're not typical knife owners and probably are knife knutters. In our cases I don't think we look at the knives from a money standpoint. After you buy a crk the money issue becomes moot. I thought I was out of my mind after pulling the trigger on one but I'm over it now. I'd get a code 4 just cuz I like it. Its got flat scales and the new one has Carpenter's steel and it's really compact carry as compared to say a zt 350. I don't think cs is going to compete with crk. They can't unless they start producing knives with tolerances like crk.

The only comparable company out there to go head to head with crk would be Rockstead.

 

[bld522]

I just looked up RAO2 on Youtube, and the lock seems to be a horizontal variation on axis lock.

What else makes that folder so hard? Do you consider the screw-in pin a locking system?

Sorry if the question is dum; I just didn't look into / read about any ER knives before. Thanks!

The screw in pin is included with the knife. The manufacturer considers it to be part of the locking system and apparently, so does Cold Steel.

 

[flipe8]

Its actually it a bad comparison. I put them both in the "has flat scales" category which is my favorite kinda k if handle for compact carry.

In most cases if someone knows about or has a crk, they're not typical knife owners and probably are knife knutters. In our cases I don't think we look at the knives from a money standpoint. After you buy a crk the money issue becomes moot. I thought I was out of my mind after pulling the trigger on one but I'm over it now. I'd get a code 4 just cuz I like it. Its got flat scales and the new one has Carpenter's steel and it's really compact carry as compared to say a zt 350. I don't think cs is going to compete with crk. They can't unless they start producing knives with tolerances like crk.










The only comparable company out there to go head to head with crk would be Rockstead.

I agree with what you're stating. What I'm getting at is the markets are different. Personally, I'd like to see CS offer some smaller EDC knives in some newer designs other than what's currently available. For me, upgrading steel on a design I don't care for(Mini Lawman for example) isn't going to draw me to the knife. The closest thing CS offers right now that appeals to me is the Swift, but I wouldn't buy one because I'm not a fan of assisted knives either.

 

[bhyde]

They already put out a ton of them. Have you seen their catalog recently? Everything over $60 street is in CTS-XHP, VG1 SM3 or CPM 3V. They've even got a slipjoint in S35VN with carbon fiber handles.
If titanium is what you want, there's the 4-Max, though I think skeletonized steel liners would be better (the knife is already an overbuilt beast, the extra ounces wouldn't hurt it IMO). Then again, I don't think liners are necessary at all with a G-10 handle.

FWIW- Liners are necessary- G10 isn't strong when it comes to threads or bearing fit types of surfaces..It simply pulls out. Most times, if the threaded hole needs strength, then it can be heli-coiled,..but if you do that, you may as well just make a liner.

 

[ivanhoe]

The screw in pin is included with the knife. The manufacturer considers it to be part of the locking system and apparently, so does Cold Steel.

Got it now, thanks. Doesn't make much sense though; it's not part of the knife itself, nor it is a mechanism. You could do the same to any other knife and ship it with a pin.
To make things funnier, AD10 and 4MAX actually have a hole similar to that, I'm just not sure if it's for the same purpose:

Photo taken from here.

 

[Drew Riley]

The screw in pin is included with the knife. The manufacturer considers it to be part of the locking system and apparently, so does Cold Steel.

You seem pretty intent on seeing a triad lock compared with the RAO. You know, there's nothing stopping you from doing the test yourself...
In fact, it'd probably be best for an independent party to test both knives.

 

[evilgreg]

While I too would enjoy seeing the ludicrous RAO mangle CS's test victory record, I do think it's important we remember a few things:

* CS isn't the only company that posts lock test videos measuring how much force it takes to make a lock fail (I've seen them from Benchmade, BladeHQ, etc.)
* The brand new Sebenza failed at a lower weight than even any linerlock I've seen tested
* CRK makes great knives, but that doesn't mean they're perfect and the cult here are prone to aggressively villifying any negative review that ever appears

 

[ourgon]

[video=youtube;I9PNxU-gq9I]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I9PNxU-gq9I[/video]

 

[James Y]

A lot of the glee being expressed by the anti-CRK crowd online about the Sebenza's "failure" is that the Sebenza is a $400 knife; that it's too much to spend on a knife. Well, as already mentioned, CRK markets to a totally different demographic than CS. Both make (or sell) excellent knives that, with proper knife use, ought to give at least many years of service to their owners.

As to whether a CRK is worth the price or not; I suppose it depends on your tastes and your priorities. I've known people who claim to not have a lot of money easily drop $150 to $200 on a single night out on the town. There are poor kids walking around in $300+ basketball shoes, and some 'poor' people who have to have the latest expensive designer clothes. Supposing I buy a Sebenza as my only knife (fat chance, right?)...if I carry/use it every day for ten years, that comes out to $40 per year. The yearly cost of owning it goes down even further the longer you have/use/enjoy it. How long is a pair of kids' basketball shoes going to last? Or a couple nights on the town? Or an expensive outfit? Or expensive video game systems? It's a bit odd that so many people happily drop money on those things, but consider it a waste to spend that much on a really good knife, if someone so chooses.

And a lot of the anti-CRK glee is simply the "bitter laughter" of those with "poverty mentality" who think they could never afford one, or who dislike their success, so take great pleasure in seeing one "fail". But it's really just sour grapes, as when people like to see others who they might deem more successful than themselves, experience a failure.

Jim

 

[crom]

Got it now, thanks. Doesn't make much sense though; it's not part of the knife itself, nor it is a mechanism. You could do the same to any other knife and ship it with a pin.
To make things funnier, AD10 and 4MAX actually have a hole similar to that, I'm just not sure if it's for the same purpose:

Photo taken from here.

That is the purpose of the additional hole, Demko confirmed this.

 

[Ankerson]

All locks can fail, its more about reducing the percentage (or likelyhood of occurance) so that it's so small that they can stick to the claims of how amazing it is (this is true with any company). Best lock is a fixed blade (some claim the butterfly is close but that's another opinion). Either way I don't care because I'll just carry a fixed blade for bigger stuff and a small (possibly CRK) folder for everything else.

What I thought was incredible was the youtube users immediately trashing the sebenza....no respect at all. I think Demko did a good job of presenting this and had far better manners than the youtube "critics" but it's youtube so is suppose I shouldn't expect much from the majority of the users..

-Nick

Most of those YT critics likely have never seen or even been in the same building with a CRK, much less ever had one in hand or owned one.

Nor would they ever actually buy any knife in the same price range as a CRK or even remotely close to that price range.

So it's really take with a grain of salt stuff there.

CS isn't going after the same customer base that CRK is.

With all the crying about the small price increases when CS went to XHP is clear evidence of that.

 

[bld522]

We've already covered the issue of the RAO's pin in the thread I quoted earlier. If the pin ships with the knife as it does with the RAO, it's an integral part of the knife. If it doesn't, it's an accessory and not an integral part of the knife. As far as testing a RAO against a 4-MAX is concerned, I'd be happy to test them as soon as someone sends them to me. But I don't have the resources to buy them nor do I have the requisite testing equipment. Someone would have to provide all that and ship it to me.

Any takers?