Sebenza

[Ankerson]

A lot of the glee being expressed by the anti-CRK crowd online about the Sebenza's "failure" is that the Sebenza is a $400 knife; that it's too much to spend on a knife. Well, as already mentioned, CRK markets to a totally different demographic than CS. Both make (or sell) excellent knives that, with proper knife use, ought to give at least many years of service to their owners.

As to whether a CRK is worth the price or not; I suppose it depends on your tastes and your priorities. I've known people who claim to not have a lot of money easily drop $150 to $200 on a single night out on the town. There are poor kids walking around in $300+ basketball shoes, and some 'poor' people who have to have the latest expensive designer clothes. Supposing I buy a Sebenza as my only knife (fat chance, right?)...if I carry/use it every day for ten years, that comes out to $40 per year. The yearly cost of owning it goes down even further the longer you have/use/enjoy it. How long is a pair of kids' basketball shoes going to last? Or a couple nights on the town? Or an expensive outfit? Or expensive video game systems? It's a bit odd that so many people happily drop money on those things, but consider it a waste to spend that much on a really good knife, if someone so chooses.

And a lot of the anti-CRK glee is simply the "bitter laughter" of those with "poverty mentality" who think they could never afford one, or who dislike their success, so take great pleasure in seeing one "fail". But it's really just sour grapes, as when people like to see others who they might deem more successful than themselves, experience a failure.

Jim

Sorta like those who down most things that are expensive, sour grapes etc.

Take exotic cars for example, not many people can afford to spend $500,000 or more on a car, or even afford the upkeep on one.

Most couldn't even keep tires on one and that is reality.

However they sure have opinions on them however irrelevant they really are..

For me personally I know there are certain things I will never own and I am more than fine with that, but I don't have sour grapes over them.

 

[James Y]

While I too would enjoy seeing the ludicrous RAO mangle CS's test victory record, I do think it's important we remember a few things:

* CS isn't the only company that posts lock test videos measuring how much force it takes to make a lock fail (I've seen them from Benchmade, BladeHQ, etc.)
* The brand new Sebenza failed at a lower weight than even any linerlock I've seen tested
* CRK makes great knives, but that doesn't mean they're perfect and the cult here are prone to aggressively villifying any negative review that ever appears

If a knife fails at a certain test, then it fails. I don't see CRKs as perfect. Anything made by man can fail at certain points. But just because someone defends their CRK knives or points out that theirs haven't failed during extensive real-world use doesn't make them all part of a 'cult'. Unless you'd like to classify the rabid anti-CRK crowd as a cult as well.

Jim

 

[James Y]

Sorta like those who down most things that are expensive, sour grapes etc.

Take exotic cars for example, not many people can afford to spend $500,000 or more on a car, or even afford the upkeep on one.

Most couldn't even keep tires on one and that is reality.

However they sure have opinions on them however irrelevant they really are..

For me personally I know there are certain things I will never own and I am more than fine with that, but I don't have sour grapes over them.

So true!

Jim

 

[flipe8]

If a knife fails at a certain test, then it fails. I don't see CRKs as perfect. Anything made by man can fail at certain points. But just because someone defends their CRK knives or points out that theirs haven't failed during extensive real-world use doesn't make them all part of a 'cult'. Unless you'd like to classify the rabid anti-CRK crowd as a cult as well.

Jim

This is the part that confuses me. Real world experiences with a product that's been around for a couple decades holds little weight with people who have already made up their minds. One video is all the proof they need to state the knife is nothing but hype?

 

[bld522]

This is the part that confuses me. Real world experiences with a product that's been around for a couple decades holds little weight with people who have already made up their minds. One video is all the proof they need to state the knife is nothing but hype?

It appears that's what Cold Steel would have you believe. If a lock isn't strong enough to support an elephant without failing, the entire knife is worthless. As for me, I won't be selling any of my Small Sebenzas based on that video. For the kinds of tasks I put them to, their locks are more than strong enough for me.

 

[Kwon Kwang]

I'd like to make clear that as a civilian with no current involvement in martial arts, I don't need my knife to lock at all. Matter of fact is, I often carry slipjoints. However, if a knife is to lock, that lock should be properly designed. It's a safety feature. When a knife costs as much as a Sebenza does, I expect everything about that knife to be nothing short of perfection, and if something isn't (especially when knives that cost a fraction of what the Sebenza does have no problem achieving just that in the same part or category), that's a serious problem. That's my opinion, simple as.

 

[bld522]

Perfection is in the eye of the beholder. For the kinds of tasks I ask my Small Sebenzas to perform, everything about them is perfect including their lock strength. YMMV.

 

[somber]

The whole debate is hilarious to me. A lock is a safety net for when you're not using a knife properly.

Slipjoints are perfectly adequate for whittling, cutting, slicing, or performing additional tasks that you would require a knife.

 

[Ankerson]

Works fine for me as my primary EDC. :thumbup:

 

[Danke42]

Works fine for me as my primary EDC. :thumbup:

OMG it cut your hand off!

 

[DJC72]

I had a triad lock fail on me once due to the locks location on the back of the knife. A few years back I was making a bow drill divot with a Recon 1 and as I was pushing through the wood, my palm started to engage the lock, as I was finishing my cut the blade began to move forward. The knife has a ricasso so no damage was done and while this incident was user induced, no lock is perfect.

 

[shinyedges]

That signature is the silliest garbage I've seen in awhile, flippers can be and sometimes are good usable knives that are durable.

The whole debate is hilarious to me. A lock is a safety net for when you're not using a knife properly.

Slipjoints are perfectly adequate for whittling, cutting, slicing, or performing additional tasks that you would require a knife.

 

[shinyedges]

I too had a tri- ad lock fail, in my case I was cutting down trees with a chainsaw with my ak-47 clipped to my pocket, I took a break and pulled out my knife to shave some wood and a wood chip was stuck on the stop pin and wouldn't allow the knife to lock up.

Any thing can happen and no lock is impervious to all possibilities. That said the triad lock is a strong design, so long as a wood chip doesn't lodge it self between where the back of the blade contacts the stop pin.

So perhaps the triad lock didn't fail in my case but it didn't lock up.

I had a triad lock fail on me once due to the locks location on the back of the knife. A few years back I was making a bow drill divot with a Recon 1 and as I was pushing through the wood, my palm started to engage the lock, as I was finishing my cut the blade began to move forward. The knife has a ricasso so no damage was done and while this incident was user induced, no lock is perfect.

 

[Kwon Kwang]

I had a triad lock fail on me once due to the locks location on the back of the knife. A few years back I was making a bow drill divot with a Recon 1 and as I was pushing through the wood, my palm started to engage the lock, as I was finishing my cut the blade began to move forward. The knife has a ricasso so no damage was done and while this incident was user induced, no lock is perfect.

User error =/= lock failure.

The whole debate is hilarious to me. A lock is a safety net for when you're not using a knife properly.

Slipjoints are perfectly adequate for whittling, cutting, slicing, or performing additional tasks that you would require a knife.

I agree, though with the caveat that the purpose of a lock is to protect a user's fingers in the event of accidental impact or force applied to the knife rather than abuse.

That signature is the silliest garbage I've seen in awhile, flippers can be and sometimes are good usable knives that are durable.

I consider flippers a fad, though I certainly don't think that has anything to do with the quality of individual knives. I own a couple and I love them, but likely won't be buying more for a while. They're fun, but my favorite method of one-handed opening is a Spyderco round hole. Just my preference.

 

[bld522]

Agreed. kidcongo's remark is completely ridiculous. A flipper is simply another way to deploy a blade. It's existence has nothing whatever to do with the ability of a knife to perform its functions as a cutting instrument. But we digress . . .

 

[bhyde]

I'd like to make clear that as a civilian with no current involvement in martial arts, I don't need my knife to lock at all. Matter of fact is, I often carry slipjoints. However, if a knife is to lock, that lock should be properly designed. It's a safety feature. When a knife costs as much as a Sebenza does, I expect everything about that knife to be nothing short of perfection, and if something isn't (especially when knives that cost a fraction of what the Sebenza does have no problem achieving just that in the same part or category), that's a serious problem. That's my opinion, simple as.

Your turn in the saddle-..Somber can join in on this too as he has stated pretty much the same thing

What makes you think that CRK designed the lock as a safety feature? If you read back through this thread,..I have addressed this around 2x that it was not designed as a safety feature.

 

[shinyedges]

The flipper method of deploying a blade is more than 20 years old, I'd hardly call that a fad. A deployment method is a deployment method whether it be a wave, thumbstud, hole, or automatic it has zero significance on how the knife is built or how it will hold up to use.

User error =/= lock failure.


I agree, though with the caveat that the purpose of a lock is to protect a user's fingers in the event of accidental impact or force applied to the knife rather than abuse.


I consider flippers a fad, though I certainly don't think that has anything to do with the quality of individual knives. I own a couple and I love them, but likely won't be buying more for a while. They're fun, but my favorite method of one-handed opening is a Spyderco round hole. Just my preference.

 

[UAB89]

It appears that's what Cold Steel would have you believe. If a lock isn't strong enough to support an elephant without failing, the entire knife is worthless. As for me, I won't be selling any of my Small Sebenzas based on that video. For the kinds of tasks I put them to, their locks are more than strong enough for me.

Precisely my thoughts! I don't need a folding knife that can stab through a car door, and the skull of a dead pig or be used hack through a 2x4.. Heck even if I was into that sort of thing I wouldn't purchase a cold steel (I would get a fixed blade or a chainsaw) 1. Haven't seen a cold steel that I even remotely felt like I wanted to carry 2. I can't support the ignorance that cold steel has going on over on their YouTube channel..

 

[B.F.U]

Funny you should mention that. In a thread which has been lost to the sands of time (and the action of a moderator), Andrew all but admitted he couldn't beat the RAO. That's why I don't think you'll ever see him test it. And it's also why I keep bringing it up.

I have no reason to contact Extrema Ratio. They're not the ones that are out there putting everybody else's knife locks down but their own.

I should also mention that Cold Steel recently instigated a lawsuit over the use of the term "virtual fixed-blade" used by one of its competitors to describe the locking strength of some of their folders. But to date, I see no evidence that it has taken on Extrema Ratio over the use of the term "real fixed blade" to describe the locking strength of the RAO.

In a test between the RAO and a Tri-Ad folder, the smart money would be on the RAO.

Look at the company against whom that suit was filed. People CONSTANTLY complain and whine and condemn CRKT on here for their poorly made, to the point of danger, executions of their knives (often with good designs/great designers). If you look at Cold Steel's statement of their reasoning, without the bias that they are a company of evil petty dweebs under which you labor, it makes some sense. I personally don't agree with such litigation between companies, but I can comprehend the reasoning.

Well look at that. Good job, Zero. [emoji106] Here's the post I was referring to:



Source: http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...-the-Cold-Steel-4-MAX?p=14985063#post14985063

Time will tell indeed. But if Andrew is right, Cold Steel's claim that it makes the strongest folders on the planet is . . . well . . . I'll let you apply the appropriate adjective. Just keep it family-friendly. We're still in GKD after all.

That doesn't at all sound like a statement meaning that Demko is intimidated by the Extrema Ratio, or even necessary thinks it will win. On its face it's an honest and ambiguous answer stating that Demko doesn't know if the Triad would win. I see it actually as tongue in cheek, considering that he quoted the whole "real fixed blade" claim. Which, again without bias, we all know is a silly, pure marketing claim.

Well of course you don't care about the RAO. No Cold Steel apologist would. But the fact is, the RAO is out there and if Andrew is right, it's probably stronger than any folder made by Cold Steel. Sometimes the truth hurts.

Is this really a Cold Steel "apologist" vs the rational people debate, or is it Cold Steel "haters" vs everyone else (Cold Steel fanboys, Chris Reeve fanboys, neutralists, etc)

I think an outside reader would say the latter.

I agree. The 4-MAX is a beast . . . even if it isn't the strongest folding 4" (give or take 3/4 of an inch) folding knife in the world! And the proof of the pudding is in the fact that Cold Steel appears to have changed their description of the 4-MAX. On their web site, their original description reads "[t]his over-built beast is without a doubt the strongest knife we have ever produced and we're willing to bet that right now, it's the strongest 4" folding knife in the world!" But on KC, that sentence has been changed to, "[t]his over-built beast is without a doubt the strongest knife that Cold Steel has ever produced and perhaps one of the strongest 4" folding knife in the world!" [Emphasis added.] Guess we know who won that round . . .

Do you mean Knife Center? You're really reaching for straws. Do you think that a retailer's description is official and represents the view of the producer. Just plain silly.

The screw in pin is included with the knife. The manufacturer considers it to be part of the locking system and apparently, so does Cold Steel.

And Demko has said that the hole in the 4 max is part of the locking system. So you can put a pin in and it's still part of the integral, manufacturer/designer designated locking system.

It appears that's what Cold Steel would have you believe. If a lock isn't strong enough to support an elephant without failing, the entire knife is worthless. As for me, I won't be selling any of my Small Sebenzas based on that video. For the kinds of tasks I put them to, their locks are more than strong enough for me.

I don't know how many times this needs to be said, but that is just a blatant falsehood. In this and several other lock test videos Demko clearly and repeatedly states that lock strength is not the only factor that makes a good knife, just a factor that Cold Steel tests, and that the competing knives they test are good/great knives.

You're just making stuff up.

 

[cchu518]

Don't you think realistically for most of us and most knives out there that we would care to debate are more than adequate for 95% of real world use. I find the debate moot in this sense. In that most of us I dare guess would never take a folding knife to its limit.

I have a potbelly. I might do a medium to hard strenuous hike but in most emergencies I think I can make do with whatever knife is with me at the time as I am hardly ever away from civilization.

My mini tuff lite finally came in the mail, I like it! Reminds me of a Spyderco Manbug!