Sebenza

[walleyeguy7]

The raw emotion in this thread is palpable!!

 

[Makael]

Slippery lock engagement.

 

[fetzer85]

I'm impressed that this thread hasn't been closed yet. Bravo to fairly civilized discussion!

 

[marthinus]

Some of my thoughts.

1. The Sebenza has to my knowledge never been marketed as a "hard use" knife. Rather a working knife. As a working knife it has been around for 25 years. If it was all BS the market would have picked up on it.

2. Andrew Demko made framelocks as well before he invented the Tri-Ad lock. Are people going to start asking for him to test his framelock next to a Sebenza next? So that it is apples to apples? Or his framelock against the Tri-Ad (as I am sure he might have already did).

3. Why no comparison between Cold Steels Ti-Lite models (liner lock) and Tri-Ad lock? Or a Cold Steel Liner lock to others for those Apples to Apples comparisons?

4. Backlocks/Tri-Ad locks can fail too. Liner and RIL are made to have a "controlled failure" under load. Anyone that has experienced a backlock failure knows that such a lock will break either at the lever or break in the pocket area and such a break is normally very sudden.

Liner/RIL failure.

Tri-Ad lock failure

At the end. Find what you like and enjoy people.

 

[Zero_Time]

Behold the Tri-Ad's kryptonite:

Source: http://www.bladehq.com/item--Extrema-Ratio-185-RAO-Tactical--10005

Indeed. The literature even claims it can be used as a guillotine. Who wouldn't be terrified of a knife that can actually substitute for a guillotine? I mean, instead of having a heavy, cumbersome 9 foot tall wood and steel and screw contraption that isn't very portable and requires me to make sure the runners are smooth so the blade falls free, I can just buy one of those and apparently it substitutes for an entire guillotine...

Zero

 

[BladeScout]

As a guy who never pulled the trigger on a Seb I can't help but think of them differently now. A somewhat fragile eccentric knife.

I dont own a Sebbie either but I like both that and the CS.

I dont see the Sebbie as being particularly fragile.

Remember:

Spine whacking has no relevance in the real world.

 

[Kwon Kwang]

Tri-Ad lock failure

At the end. Find what you like and enjoy people.

I think this says a lot of good things about the Tri-Ad lock. You have to actually destroy the knife in order to get the lock to fail, whereas the Sebenza can't handle 30 lbs of weight before the lock not only fails but breaks itself!

I think it's clear where the value is here.

 

[mrnotsam123]

All locks can fail, its more about reducing the percentage (or likelyhood of occurance) so that it's so small that they can stick to the claims of how amazing it is (this is true with any company). Best lock is a fixed blade (some claim the butterfly is close but that's another opinion). Either way I don't care because I'll just carry a fixed blade for bigger stuff and a small (possibly CRK) folder for everything else.

What I thought was incredible was the youtube users immediately trashing the sebenza....no respect at all. I think Demko did a good job of presenting this and had far better manners than the youtube "critics" but it's youtube so is suppose I shouldn't expect much from the majority of the users..

-Nick

 

[mrnotsam123]

Some of my thoughts.

1. The Sebenza has to my knowledge never been marketed as a "hard use" knife. Rather a working knife. As a working knife it has been around for 25 years. If it was all BS the market would have picked up on it.

2. Andrew Demko made framelocks as well before he invented the Tri-Ad lock. Are people going to start asking for him to test his framelock next to a Sebenza next? So that it is apples to apples? Or his framelock against the Tri-Ad (as I am sure he might have already did).

3. Why no comparison between Cold Steels Ti-Lite models (liner lock) and Tri-Ad lock? Or a Cold Steel Liner lock to others for those Apples to Apples comparisons?

4. Backlocks/Tri-Ad locks can fail too. Liner and RIL are made to have a "controlled failure" under load. Anyone that has experienced a backlock failure knows that such a lock will break either at the lever or break in the pocket area and such a break is normally very sudden.

Liner/RIL failure.

Tri-Ad lock failure

At the end. Find what you like and enjoy people.

agreed -^

also, that HD-7 fail is painful to see, your knife? if so how'd that happen??

 

[DJC72]

Cold Steel's testing of the Sebenza makes me wonder. After testing the Sebbie, will they now "test" their products against high end production folders?

 

[marthinus]

I think this says a lot of good things about the Tri-Ad lock. You have to actually destroy the knife in order to get the lock to fail, whereas the Sebenza can't handle 30 lbs of weight before the lock not only fails but breaks itself!

I think it's clear where the value is here.

If there is an inclusion in the steel at the right place or a weak point not even the Tri-Ad lock would withstand 30lbs. If you think no lock or blade is subjected to aspects such as inclusions or micro cracks then so be it.

Interesting thing though that when the that failure surfaced the standard defense was : All Locks can fail and one should treat a knife to that, despite the advertisements of the Tri-Ad lock.

agreed -^

also, that HD-7 fail is painful to see, your knife? if so how'd that happen??

Not mine, but believe the person was beating on it. Non of his fingers were cut.

 

[B.F.U]

I've read all the posts in this thread. It appears most all the points have been covered. Very interesting read as well as very informational. Not as many troll/idiot responses as in some of the other threads concerning the testing of CS to other brands.

My take on these testing videos are pretty much in line with most responses already stated, "completely useless"

The one thing that pisses me off more than anything else, is the message CS is sending out with these asinine tests. And that is, that myself/you and anyone else that owns a knife is stupid and an idiot.
That the knife in my/your pocket right now is not a good choice.

I feel that my choice in the knives I own, suits my day to day chores and whichever knife I chose to EDC will serve the needs for what I do and will be like a friend and not fail me.
To date, they all have been the best of friends.

I didn't watch the video because how many frame locks do you need to test to prove your lock is superior???? IMO, just one. A frame lock is a frame lock.
I don't think anyone can dispute the strength of CS locks. That's been proven and hooray!!!!! for Cold Steel.
However, don't take the one thing you got going for you and try to shove it down my throat and try to make me believe it's the best thing since sliced bread. Really????

There's just so many things that go into a well balanced knife, ergo's, blade shape, blade steel, material, blade geometry and all the other little things that are discussed here on BFC that makes
sense when someone is wanting a style of knife that will fit they're needs.

I'm just not very supportive of any company that uses deceptive means to push their products.

Well, again, you didn't watch the video so why even make these statements. They absolutely are not saying that consumers are idiots for carrying any other knife, Demko repeatedly says that he thinks the Sebenza is a great knife and that Chris Reeve's claims are true. He even says that he didn't prepare the backup Sebenza for testing so that it could be kept.

They don't just say their lock is stronger. They say they make the strongest folders on the planet. And I say, prove it. Test it against the RAO and then we'll see.

For real, if you're so fired up about this test happening, are you contacting both companies to request it?

Indeed. The literature even claims it can be used as a guillotine. Who wouldn't be terrified of a knife that can actually substitute for a guillotine? I mean, instead of having a heavy, cumbersome 9 foot tall wood and steel and screw contraption that isn't very portable and requires me to make sure the runners are smooth so the blade falls free, I can just buy one of those and apparently it substitutes for an entire guillotine...

Zero

All I'm saying is that people calling Cold Steel Tacticool/Mall-Ninja then touting this company and knife is the height of hypocrisy.

 

[flipe8]

Back to Sebenza. It's more of a jewelry piece than tool. A $400+ tool should do better.
Would you pay that kind of money for a screwdriver which strips heads? Most wouldn't. But hey, it has perfect fit and finish.

I keep on thinking about all those times I used my CRK folder for about 7 years and never considered it a piece of jewellery. In real world use, they work fine.

 

[bld522]

For real, if you're so fired up about this test happening, are you contacting both companies to request it?

Funny you should mention that. In a thread which has been lost to the sands of time (and the action of a moderator), Andrew all but admitted he couldn't beat the RAO. That's why I don't think you'll ever see him test it. And it's also why I keep bringing it up.

I have no reason to contact Extrema Ratio. They're not the ones that are out there putting everybody else's knife locks down but their own.

I should also mention that Cold Steel recently instigated a lawsuit over the use of the term "virtual fixed-blade" used by one of its competitors to describe the locking strength of some of their folders. But to date, I see no evidence that it has taken on Extrema Ratio over the use of the term "real fixed blade" to describe the locking strength of the RAO.

In a test between the RAO and a Tri-Ad folder, the smart money would be on the RAO.

 

[Zero_Time]

Funny you should mention that. In a thread which has been lost to the sands of time (and the action of a moderator), Andrew all but admitted he couldn't beat the RAO. That's why I don't think you'll never see him test it. And it's also why I keep bringing it up.

I have no reason to contact Extrema Ratio. They're not the ones that are out there putting everybody else's knife locks down but their own.

I should also mention that Cold Steel recently instigated a lawsuit over the use of the term "virtual fixed-blade" used by one of its competitors to describe the strength of the locking mechanism used on their folders. But to date, I see no evidence that it has taken on Extrema Ratio over the use of the term "real fixed blade" to describe the strength of theirs.

In a test between the RAO and a Tri-Ad folder, the smart money would be on the RAO.

I'm not sure the triad anything can beat a knife that is a "real fixed blade" as is the RAO. That would be a fun test win or loose, it would be interesting. I think it is on the list so time will tell.

Doesn't look like the claim is that hard to find.

If you want to resurrect this thread, here's the last page, it's open for comments: http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...rema-Ratio-RAO-vs-the-Cold-Steel-4-MAX/page15

Zero

 

[bld522]

Doesn't look like the claim is that hard to find.

If you want to resurrect this thread, here's the last page, it's open for comments: http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...rema-Ratio-RAO-vs-the-Cold-Steel-4-MAX/page15

Zero

Well look at that. Good job, Zero. :thumbup: Here's the post I was referring to:

I'm not sure the triad anything can beat a knife that is a "real fixed blade" as is the RAO. That would be a fun test win or loose, it would be interesting. I think it is on the list so time will tell.

Source: http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...-the-Cold-Steel-4-MAX?p=14985063#post14985063

Time will tell indeed. But if Andrew is right, Cold Steel's claim that it makes the strongest folders on the planet is . . . well . . . I'll let you apply the appropriate adjective. Just keep it family-friendly. We're still in GKD after all.

 

[Humint]

Here's my thoughts on the matter. The Triad block is the strongest production lock on the market currently. I could care less about the RAO. At that point who the hell would carry that thing just get a fixed blade. Plus The RAO would have major blade play and the Triad lock would not after its test. Would the RAO beat the triad? I don't know maybe. I like cold steel knives I have several. in fact my back up emergency blade in a zombie apocalypse I have ready is a cold steel recon one. I guess what I have riding in my pocket every single day? A small micarta sebenza 21. This knife in my opinion is the single greatest every day carry "pocket" knife for me. It is strong enough, the fit and finish is absolutely amazing and I love it. To me it reminds me of the perfect knife to carry in your pocket as the previous generation had carried slip joints. I never once thought hey CRK frame lock could be a triad lock in a strength test any day. The small Sebenza handles any regular cutting task I would come up on throughout the day and that's why it is perfect for me. If I need a larger knife than that I know I will be leaning towards more abusive tasks so I would not grab a large Sebenza but instead one of my fixed blades or a honestly on or my Cold Steels. The small Sebenza Will be passed onto my son one day. He probably will get the Cold Steels as well but will be in my toolbox with hammers and tool box items, they are not something that's going to be passed down as an heirloom like my small Sebenza. I love the small Sebenza so much that after one of mine got stolen I ordered another one as well as a back up one so I'll never be without it. The point of this post is the Sebenza is an amazing knife but it certainly can be out performed by a stronger lock like the Triad or out sliced buy a full flat ground Spyderco, but that does not in fact make the Sebenza bad knife at all. An atomic G-Shock watch will keep better time than a Rolex but that G-Shock will never have the soul of the Rolex. On a sidenote people that are giving cold steel crap about these test really need to stop being butt hurt. They're testing their locks that's all every single test I've seen Andrew has been extremely classy I saw my beloved paramilitary to fail quicker than I thought it would but even Andrew praise that lock and how awesome that knife is

 

[bld522]

Here's my thoughts on the matter. The Triad block is the strongest production lock on the market currently. I could care less about the RAO.

Well of course you don't care about the RAO. No Cold Steel apologist would. But the fact is, the RAO is out there and if Andrew is right, it's probably stronger than any folder made by Cold Steel. Sometimes the truth hurts.

 

[flipe8]

It's somewhat off topic, but I'd love to see either CS or AD put out a high-end EDC folder that was on par with other top tier production knives. I'm talking something with the same overall dimensions(or close) in titanium with the Triad lock. I'm sure they could do it and sure there's a market for it.

 

[Kwon Kwang]

It's somewhat off topic, but I'd love to see either CS or AD put out a high-end EDC folder that was on par with other top tier production knives. I'm talking something with the same overall dimensions(or close) in titanium with the Triad lock. I'm sure they could do it and sure there's a market for it.

They already put out a ton of them. Have you seen their catalog recently? Everything over $60 street is in CTS-XHP, VG1 SM3 or CPM 3V. They've even got a slipjoint in S35VN with carbon fiber handles.
If titanium is what you want, there's the 4-Max, though I think skeletonized steel liners would be better (the knife is already an overbuilt beast, the extra ounces wouldn't hurt it IMO). Then again, I don't think liners are necessary at all with a G-10 handle.