Sebenza

[bld522]

Still silly. Yet again, it's just a retailer. Their description does not represent Cold Steel's view, is not official, and is just semantics. You're really, blatantly reaching for straws to fuel this "Demko is afraid to test against the Extrema Ratio" argument.

You really think KC and osogrande made up identical descriptions independently of each other? Where do you think they're getting their copy from? And if Andrew's really not afraid to test the RAO, where's the test?

. . . the hole is included as part of the locking system. It doesn't need a pin, you can use whatever you want.

Like a toothpick, perhaps?

 

[bhyde]

That's the entire point of a folding knife lock.

According to who? You?

 

[bhyde]

I feel that the RIL is a safety feature because without use of a backspring the knife would flop closed, unless force is applied to the cutting edge (forcing the tang against the stop-pin). Therefore, a locking mechanism on a knife doesn't serve any other purpose than to keep the knife open while in use, preventing it from closing at inopportune times. Arguing that it doesn't serve as a safety mechanism is disingenuous at best.

So, you believe that a lock only serves to keep the knife open? So, you can use the working side of the knife..Correct?

 

[somber]

So, you believe that a lock only serves to keep the knife open? So, you can use the working side of the knife..Correct?

When engaged the locks purpose is to keep the knife open so you can use the working side of the blade safely, yes.*

What purpose DO YOU think the lock serves?

*when being used there is force being applied to the blade which would keep it open because the tang would be pressed against the stop-pin. The lock serves to keep the blade open when transitioning from force-applied tasks

 

[bhyde]

When engaged the locks purpose is to keep the knife open so you can use the working side of the blade safely, yes.

What purpose DO YOU think the lock serves?

I know what purpose it served when it was designed- It was DESIGNED to keep the blade in place while using the working edge..If you are putting pressure on the spine of the knife,..you are NOT using it as designed.

 

[somber]

I know what purpose it served when it was designed- It was DESIGNED to keep the blade in place while using the working edge..If you are putting pressure on the spine of the knife,..you are NOT using it as designed.

How is that different than any thing that I've stated? And you're arguing that this isn't a safety design?

I feel that the RIL is a safety feature because without use of a backspring the knife would flop closed, unless force is applied to the cutting edge (forcing the tang against the stop-pin). Therefore, a locking mechanism on a knife doesn't serve any other purpose than to keep the knife open while in use, preventing it from closing at inopportune times. Arguing that it doesn't serve as a safety mechanism is disingenuous at best.

 

[bld522]

It's a safety design for folks who don't know which side of the knife to cut with. And if you be one of those folks, I wouldn't dream of recommending anything to you but a Cold Steel folder. You're going to need all the lock strength you can get.

 

[RevDevil]

It's all good. But I suspect a lot of folks won't be aware of the background and interpret that post at face value. At a minimum, I'd put a rolleyes smiley under the post so folks have an idea of what you really think of it. Just a thought . . .

I have no cat meat in this Teriyaki Chicken bowl, but I will say the following. That problem has been going on for years. Many people take things at face value as a preference because they are either not invested enough to find the true details, they are lazy, don't care, or as we've seen people aka "enthusiasts" are here today and gone tomorrow. This is one variable, like many others that you can explain to people, but you just cannot understand it for them. Does it make the test any more or less fun to watch? For some yes and others no. I'm not saying that a company cannot be potentially damaged financially, but then again that topic is at a level where very few of us (if any) really understand the ins and outs of running a business on that scale and in this industry. Sure, we can draw parallels, ask questions, assume, draw conclusions, etc. Remember the guy that used to or still does knife destruction tests? People still buy many if not most of the knives he felt were not good. Ultimately, a little bit of responsibility falls upon all of us to make the distinction between what is a valid test versus backyard fun of a likely scenario.

 

[somber]

And I quote:

What makes you think that CRK designed the lock as a safety feature? If you read back through this thread,..I have addressed this around 2x that it was not designed as a safety feature.

Again, arguing that it is not a safety feature is disingenuous at best.

 

[Humint]

No kidding, if the testers are Russian I watch it. Watched them wail on an orange handled Military once, very impressive!

I remember this test and it brought tears to my eyes! I couldn't believe how much abuse my beloved Military could take.

Back on topic, I always thought it would be cool to own the top production knife version of each type of lock. In my opinion the Military would take the cake for the king of the production liner lock models. And I always thought the Sebenza would be the top frame lock. I watched all of Cold Steels/Demkos youtube test and I was impressed with some of the frame locks they tested. I always wanted them to test the Sebenza as I thought it would beat all frame locks. Though I knew it couldnt beat the Triad. After I watched that this morning I just find it so hard to believe, but I highly doubt the knives were tampered with, Andrew seems to have way too much credibility and class to do that. I am still shaking my head at the results.

But I will say this, right now in my pocket is a brand-new small micarta 21 where it will stay for years to come. I truly believe the small sebenze 21 (with micarta inlays) is the perfect "pocket knife" out there. Mine was stolen recently and I foolishly thought of selling it before it got stolen however, nothing will kick the "pocket knife" role that it fills. I greatly prefer the smalls to the larges. If I need more cutting edge I reach for the Spyderco Military or Benchmade Griptilian. If I am about to do a hard-use task I grab a fixed blade. If I want to do fun stupid pointless knife shenanigans with a folding knife I grab a Cold Steel

 

[UAB89]

I don't know how one can take these test integrity or results seriously.. you have to look at the test itself in order to determine the validity of the results. First who performed the test.. cold steel so right there is a major red flag so of course the results will be in their favor. They say the knives are brand new out of the box and should function perfect right.. well who is to say he did not compromise the integrity of the lock on the first knife before ever performing the test by drilling a hole through the frame at the base of the knife under the lockbar.. or who can say he didn't shave off part of the lock bar/blade lock up interface/or angle it so that when pressure is applied it slips off.. heck we don't know because he does not get within 10 feet of the camera and the poor quality of the video you can barely tell the knife is a sebenza more less that it is authentic and has not been altered.. same thing with the "New Unaltered Knife" all we have is his word that the knife is in new.. which again is subject to bias because its cold steel performing the test not an outside source performing..

 

[fetzer85]

After 300+ posts (that has mostly turned into back-and-forth jabs) I'm going to say this and then peace out...

Cold Steel designed these tests in their favor. Is that unfair? Certainly not, after all they're trying to promote their own products, not anyone else's. The vast majority of us realize the test is incredibly unrealistic. I've never had my entire blade stuck in something and then decided to push down with all my weight on the very end of the handle. (sounds like a pry bar to me) So if a top end knife fails their designed test then so be it! It's their marketing method aimed at those who believe their tests are actually relevant. I will even admit I fell for the trap years ago but obviously now I've seen the light and realize a knife is exactly that - a knife .

 

[bhyde]

And I quote:



Again, arguing that it is not a safety feature is disingenuous at best.

You use that term...ALOT, but have no clue as to what purpose the lockbar was for..I have made those handles and scales before..I know what they are about...do you have that experience with this?
Chris designed this 25+ years ago..How many people do you think were hanging off of them then?

You don't know what you are talking about as you have absolutely no experience with this other than holding a few folders..When you have made them and have a number of years as a designer and a machinist..get back with me with your vast knowledge.

 

[somber]

You use that term...ALOT, but have no clue as to what purpose the lockbar was for..I have made those handles and scales before..I know what they are about...do you have that experience with this

And you use this deflection... A LOT.

We all know your resume, you bring it up every chance you get.
You know nothing of me, on the other hand.

Let's keep it like that. Continue your pedantic argument that keeping the blade in place and open when the knife is being used isn't a safety mechanism.

edit: Twice is A LOT now

 

[bhyde]

And you use this deflection... A LOT.

We all know your resume, you bring it up every chance you get.
You know nothing of me, on the other hand.

Let's keep it like that. Continue your pedantic argument that keeping the blade in place and open when the knife is being used isn't a safety mechanism.

A knife is inherently dangerous....You may as well throw safety out the window when you open the package,..nevermind using it in a manner it was never designed to be used.

 

[bhyde]

And you use this deflection... A LOT.

We all know your resume, you bring it up every chance you get.
You know nothing of me, on the other hand.

Let's keep it like that. Continue your pedantic argument that keeping the blade in place and open when the knife is being used isn't a safety mechanism.

edit: Twice is A LOT now

Nice edit...I was thinking that you were actually being civil despite your sig...

onto ignore you go..troll

 

[kniferbro]

I wish I had this thread when I was doing my research proposal on dissonance induced attitude shifts...

 

[bld522]

Oops. You can't use the jerkit emoticon in the GKD forum. It's a violation of the rules. I'd make it go away real quick if I were you.

 

[bghorn]

Chris designed this 25+ years ago..How many people do you think were hanging off of them then?

Buck designed 110 over 50 years ago. And yes, you wouldn't believe what people did with that knife. Do you hunt?

You don't know what you are talking about as you have absolutely no experience with this other than holding a few folders..When you have made them and have a number of years as a designer and a machinist..get back with me with your vast knowledge.

Now you're funny. Kinda like saying to pro driver he doesn't know how to drive because he doesn't build cars. The arrogance, LOL...

 

[rcb2000]

Me casually checking this thread at work...