Sebenza

[B.F.U]

Especially since fanboyism requires you to check logic at the door and stretch definitions beyond recognition.

For the record, I'll still have a Sebenza or Mnandi in my pocket.

Man I'd love to get a Mnandi. Seems more in line with the CRK vibe to me.

 

[somber]

I love the Mnandi profile so much I had to have two.

 

[bld522]

Particularly if its fanboyism of a brand you don't happen to like.

Or hatred of a brand you do.

 

[bld522]

I love everything about the Mnandi except the size. It's just a little too small for me. I ended up trading a Bloodwood for a William Henry E10-1.

 

[gastonian]

Man people are really invested in these knife companies and seem to take it as a personal insult if someones ideas differ from their own on a certain maker. Like some how a persons character is drastically changed if a certain knife is viewed in a less positive manner than they view it. A knife is a tool at heart its made to cut things. Carry what makes you happy and what does what you need it to do. If you have ever seen someone pull out a knife and thought the knife they had somehow added to or subtracted from their character perhaps you should re evaluate your priorities in what you think is important about a person. I joined these forums because i love knives all kinds of knives. Whether its a beautiful custom well outside my price range or a cheap chinese beater. This is a hobby that brings me happiness I hope I never let it get serious enough to me that it stresses me out.

Well said! You should post more often :thumbup:

 

[Drew Riley]

So, Gaston, you have evidence that CS fakes its test videos... but you can't find that evidence.

I believe he's referring to these videos:
[video=youtube;bYozOCQM7CI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bYozOCQM7CI[/video]
[video=youtube;TpiMUuhZS80]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TpiMUuhZS80[/video]
[video=youtube;i_AtApX3468]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i_AtApX3468[/video]

 

[Gaston444]

Thanks for finding these videos: The rounding off of the tip is nowhere near as obvious as I remembered it, but playing around with the stop at 0.49 on the second video you can occasionally see the real condition of the tip, which looks to me slightly rounded, not jagged broken, by 1/16": Sorry about the exaggeration... The exposed metal is very hard to see in this video quality because they set up this blinding reflective board behind a black-painted knife, so what you see as a point is actually the black paint of the knife coming to a point... The later condition of the knife is irrelevant, since the point could have been brought back.

Also the steel magazine might have worsened the point, but it would look square broken not rounded: To break the quillion earlier means they use so much unrealistic force that the comparative result could very well be accurate on a complicated object like the rifle magazine: I'll concede the video doesn't definitively proves a cheat.

The video's conclusion on the snap cuts are wrong, because they are simply wacking flat objects with the edges flat...: A real test would involve a dual motion of a tip prick followed by a slicing cut, once the point is inserted, and this on a soft and sharply rounded target...: They would have had to seriously damage the dagger's point to make it fail to vastly out-perform the Tanto on "real" tip slicing...: I would say that on this they are misleading, but not in a way that is cheating.

Thanks again for finding the videos: I had been looking for them for a while, trying "Cold Steel Tanto vs"... No luck

Gaston

 

[marcinek]

So, you still sticking to this claim?

So you think Cold Steel is above tampering with another company's knife? Perhaps a bit of demonstrable history is in order...

 

[evilgreg]

Thanks for finding these videos: The rounding off of the tip is nowhere near as obvious as I remembered it, but playing around with the stop at 0.49 on the second video you can occasionally see the real condition of the tip, which looks to me slightly rounded, not jagged broken, by 1/16": Sorry about the exaggeration... The exposed metal is very hard to see in this video quality because they set up this blinding reflective board behind a black-painted knife, so what you see as a point is actually the black paint of the knife coming to a point... The later condition of the knife is irrelevant, since the point could have been brought back.

Also the steel magazine might have worsened the point, but it would look square broken not rounded: To break the quillion earlier means they use so much unrealistic force that the comparative result could very well be accurate on a complicated object like the rifle magazine: I'll concede the video doesn't definitively proves a cheat.

The video's conclusion on the snap cuts are wrong, because they are simply wacking flat objects with the edges flat...: A real test would involve a dual motion of a tip prick followed by a slicing cut, once the point is inserted, and this on a soft and sharply rounded target...: They would have had to seriously damage the dagger's point to make it fail to vastly out-perform the Tanto on "real" tip slicing...: I would say that on this they are misleading, but not in a way that is cheating.

Thanks again for finding the videos: I had been looking for them for a while, trying "Cold Steel Tanto vs"... No luck

Gaston

I can't believe you got me to suffer through thirty minutes of CS tanto testing videos, but you did.

However, I watched all of all three of them and didn't see anything shady (though I did find the stabby-drop rig disturbing to watch as Demko messed around under it constantly with a knife ready to fall above him).

Is it possible, just maybe, that you're imagining the cheating you accused them of?

 

[uofaengr]

Didn't know much about the guy to start with, but I occasionally listen to the Steve Austin podcast and he recently interviewed Lynn Thompson. It's rare I turn off one of Steve's shows before the end, but my asshatory and BS meter was full within 30 minutes into the interview. It's almost like the guy is a living, breathing parody of 75% of his customers.

 

[evilgreg]

Didn't know much about the guy to start with, but I occasionally listen to the Steve Austin podcast and he recently interviewed Lynn Thompson. It's rare I turn off one of Steve's shows before the end, but my asshatory and BS meter was full within 30 minutes into the interview. It's almost like the guy is a living, breathing parody of 75% of his customers.

No argument. I never remember his name so I always just call him the chubby fellow who thinks he's a ninja butcher.

That said, goofy mall-ninja marketing or not their knives don't suck, and I've still never seen another knife's lock fail under so little weight as the Sebenza did.

 

[jill jackson]

Somebody needs to test a Sebenza and find out. I can't believe it couldn't hold 45 pounds. I've seen a strong guy beat the snot out of a mere clone of a Sebenza, with no luck defeating the lock. So, all somebody needs to do is hang some weight off theirs. Not gonna be me though.

 

[uofaengr]

That said, goofy mall-ninja marketing or not their knives don't suck, and I've still never seen another knife's lock fail under so little weight as the Sebenza did.

Never insinuated his knives suck. There was a time I considered getting an American Lawman just to keep in the truck or something, but I ended up getting a Mora instead. From everything I've read, the triad lock is the strongest out there, and I'd think it'd be stronger than a framelock anyway based on design alone.

I try not to let makers' actions/controversies sway me from a knife if the knife and customer service are good. I mean hell, I owned a Strider at one point.

 

[bld522]

I've still never seen another knife's lock fail under so little weight as the Sebenza did.

Having no intention of applying 45 pounds of weight (or anywhere near that amount) onto the spine of my Small Sebenza during the remainder of my lifetime, I am completely unconcerned with the result of this meaningless test. IMO, no one who uses their folders correctly should be.

 

[Topcatpt]

lol this thread makes me laugh people get so butthurt.
The sebenza fails a test for lock strength test so what. Obviously this is a forum and its something to discuss but release the butthurt and watch the insults fly.
I understand believing in a product but to sit here and bash Demko and each other is ridiculous.
Demko is a pretty good dude in my book.(know him personally). He is not lynn thompson he just happens to work for him two different people with two totally different personalities believe me.
The cold steel test are obviously a marketing strategy to show case how strong their lock is. Demko probably came up with the test because they look to be the same tests he did with his customs.(which he did to see what they could do, and yes he likes strong locks. But im guessing here that cold steel said that looks like something we could use to to market. Demko is not involved in marketing he is r&d for cold steel not the marketing director.
As far as the sebenza failing these test it doesnt matter that knife has been around for the better part of 25 years and still going strong so its obviously a time proven knife(imo a awesome knife)
the triad lock is stronger so what. There is obviously more to a knife than just lock strength. And lets be real most people buying $100 or less cold steel are not in the same market as people buying a sebenza they are two different areas of the market.
bld522 as far as the extreme ratio test do you really think you one person is gonna get a company the size of cold steel to do a test just cause you want them too, come on. But im sure if you rallied a bunch of people to pester cold steel to do it they might. And nothing against extrem ratio but they dont have a big chunk of any market and cold steel seems to be testing more popular brands. But I wouldnt mind seeing that test either.

 

[evilgreg]

Having no intention of applying 45 pounds of weight (or anywhere near that amount) onto the spine of my Small Sebenza during the remainder of my lifetime, I am completely unconcerned with the result of this meaningless test. IMO, no one who uses their folders correctly should be.

I don't argue that; it does still seem a little surprising though, that the supposed gold standard (and advertised "bank vault" lockup) Sebenza fails at a fraction of the weight it takes to make a Chinese linerlock Spyderco fail.

In reality though, 99% of Striders and Hinderers and whatnot won't ever see any harder use than opening a package that has another one inside (as proven by the million of them listed on the exchange as being in pristine condition) so I'm sure you're entirely correct that this weakness of the Sebenza lock, if valid, shouldn't make a difference in the real world.

I still find it interesting, though.

 

[KBA]

I own a Mnandi and four small 21s and use 2 of the 21s. I love them and they have never failed. I do not, not have ever owned a CS

I have watched the video and read the threads, but man, not even 45 lbs. Really?? Yes, I believe the test to be irrelevant. No, I cannot see using my knife in such a way that would cause either test to be validated. However, the video has created a desire for a stronger lock. Not a tank like the RAO, but at least something that is more capable.

I do not plan on selling my CRKs, nor do I plan on shelving them. No, I’m not going to buy a CS. They just do not appeal to me.
I am considering Benchmade and the Axis lock. I wish I liked the Spyderco and the PM2 but they just don’t do it for me. Nor does ZT (I've had a few)

I’ve been wanting to try M4 and S90V anyways and the video just pushed me more that way and less towards CRKs and frame locks.

 

[jill jackson]

The video I posted of the Russian man, spine whacking, prying a hole through a solid board, convinced me a CRK is more than capable enough.

 

[ursamajor]

Remember:

Spine whacking has no relevance in the real world.

100% False.

I have a nice scar, due to a non assisted Kershaw linerlock, in which the lock failed, because I inadvertantly hit the spine of it against a cast iron sink, after I cut a dishwasher drain hose, and was pulling my hand back out from behind the sink.

Inadvertantly spine whacks happen in real world usage. A folding knife being able to withstand negative pressure on the blade, is why locking folders were invented in the first place. If the need was not real, we would still only have slip joints.

 

[KBA]

The video I posted of the Russian man, spine whacking, prying a hole through a solid board, convinced me a CRK is more than capable enough.

Agreed. I don't remember him spine whacking though. I mainly remember him lifting the knife around 6-10 inches from a board and stabbing it, followed by prying a bit of the tip. I may need to watch it again.
While watching it I do remember thinking that the test he did showed the tip strength and wondering how a ZAN is different than a 21 due to the thumb studs. However, I don't really think his tested showed much stress on the lock. Again, I could be wrong and need to watch it again.