Sebenza

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Rolling your eyes after partaking in said acts makes you superior right? Lol

I don't need to search as I don't care, you pop up in every thread campaigning with the same old garbage and pretending your not a troll.

I'll even throw a happy face in just like you do for what ever the reason you use the happy face icon so much :)
Where are we? Back in Junior High? Prove it! No, prove I don't. I double dare you to prove it. Well, I TRIPLE dare you to prove I don't. :rolleyes:

I've already stated what I own in other threads. If it's important for you to find out, go look for yourself. Oh, and when you get back be sure to bring a towel with you. You'll need it to wipe the egg off your face. ;)
 
You've got to admit that would be a lot of fun to watch. Or do you just get your kicks when the tri ad beats someone else's lock?

Anyway, don't worry. I don't think we'll see a video of the tri ad being beaten anytime soon even though by Andrew's own admission there's a contender out there waiting to be tested. ;)

Since you appear to be the only person interested, you should purchase the Extrema Ratio and make some comparisons. But I think you should compare it with the last knife you were obsessed with in every thread, the Chinese Kizer Team Gemini, which ultimately was revealed to have a junk pivot. I bet a lot of people would be interested to see which one, in a head to head matchup, is a stupider knife. Hard to say because one falls apart in operation and the other requires extra parts to operate.

I don't really get why people are having such embarrassing public panic attacks over a Sebenza being shown to not possess a certain type of strength. So what? If you love it, carry it and be happy -and when the lock is improved by CRK, don't buy the updated version with stronger lock. Problem solved.
 
Is this thread about the Cold Steel -Sebenza test?
Or is it about how many personal insults we can throw around?
This thread has gone on long enough for technical comments. Lets not spoil that.
 
My gosh. I'm not surprised about the asshurt, but I am surprised about, well, the surprise. Do you people honestly expect a framelock to compare to a Tri-Ad or even a lockback in reliability? It's simple physics. While I am surprised that the CRK didn't do as well as the ZTs Mr. Demko tested, I'm not surprised that it couldn't compare to the strength of the Tri-Ad. I expected the original framelock to be one of the best framelocks.

I know this was mentioned a while ago in this thread, but does anyone know if the ZT knives tested were the variety with steel inserts in the titanium lockbars?

I can't check right now, but I have a theory that part of the reason why the CRK folded so easily was because the titanium bar wore away some of the steel from the tang of the blade, causing it to slip from solid lockup.
 
I know this was mentioned a while ago in this thread, but does anyone know if the ZT knives tested were the variety with steel inserts in the titanium lockbars?

I can't check right now, but I have a theory that part of the reason why the CRK folded so easily was because the titanium bar wore away some of the steel from the tang of the blade, causing it to slip from solid lockup.

At least for the whack test I'd expect a knife with the steel insert to do worse, not better. I don't know if it's because the titanium galls on steel and is more sticky as a result, but where I've seen lock bar slip issues in my knives when messing around with them it's been more frequent on knives with inserts than not. Of course for wear, I assume the steel insert lockups would be superior (though is lockbar wear a real issue for anyone in practice?).
 
Is this thread about the Cold Steel -Sebenza test?
Or is it about how many personal insults we can throw around?
This thread has gone on long enough for technical comments. Lets not spoil that.


Yes everyone please stop with the useless banter! Get back to the thread. Stop talking about the RAO, or how other untested knives would do. I almost want to start a new thread because this is gotten so off-topic. I am really curious to know theories why it didn't even hold 45 pounds. I find it hard to believe because other frame locks have tested before and even though failed held much more weight
 
Based on how quickly and easily BOTH Sebenzas failed, I don't think they could have held even 30 lbs. To me, if you are going to design a lock on a knife, it should pass some minimum standard. Locks don't need to hold anywhere near the weight a CS holds, but it should have at least a little strength. Sebenzas very clearly do not.
 
Yes everyone please stop with the useless banter! Get back to the thread. Stop talking about the RAO, or how other untested knives would do. I almost want to start a new thread because this is gotten so off-topic. I am really curious to know theories why it didn't even hold 45 pounds. I find it hard to believe because other frame locks have tested before and even though failed held much more weight

Hard to know why it didn't without seeing the test repeated from an outside unbiased source.. Because no close-up shots are shown of either sebenza before or after the test and they don't show a close enough view during the test.. All you have is there word and I don't know them personally so I can't say but from the antics I have seen on their YouTube channel and read I don't think their is much that LT wouldn't do to have people talking about his knives.. And this forum proves it worked
 
Hard to know why it didn't without seeing the test repeated from an outside unbiased source.. Because no close-up shots are shown of either sebenza before or after the test and they don't show a close enough view during the test.. All you have is there word and I don't know them personally so I can't say but from the antics I have seen on their YouTube channel and read I don't think their is much that LT wouldn't do to have people talking about his knives.. And this forum proves it worked

I don't know, I haven't seen anything that makes me feel like they're cheating in this video or any of the others I've watched. I've watched this video three times now, and if anything I've grown more and more convinced that Demko was embarrassed for the Sebenza and unhappy himself with how it went. He says so many positive things about the knife, and then he looks visibly distressed when the knife fails so early.
 
Based on how quickly and easily BOTH Sebenzas failed, I don't think they could have held even 30 lbs. To me, if you are going to design a lock on a knife, it should pass some minimum standard. Locks don't need to hold anywhere near the weight a CS holds, but it should have at least a little strength. Sebenzas very clearly do not.

The thing is, the Sebenza has been around for 25 years and it's hard to find threads involving lock failure by users. Do you actually think, with the amount of people who don't like the Sebenza for any number of reasons, wouldn't be more vocal of repeated failures if they were common? Like I said before, I carried a CRK folder for around 7 years and used it for pretty much everything I needed to use a knife for over that time without issue. I'm not the only one. I have no problem acknowledging the Sebenzas in the video did poorly, but it doesn't negate what I've experienced, based on my real world use.
 
That's the point and why people are getting so heated right here.. In the sebenza's 25 yeah history have you ever herd of a sebenza failing.. Im not saying it hasn't happened I'm just saying seems like you would be hearing it a little more if the "cr frame lock" we're a weak lock.. And yet A test with no credibility performed by a company that if you had seen their YouTube channel would know pretty much would do anything for attention or make people wanna talk about their knives..

I agree and will admit I am new to modern knives. I am mostly a slip joint guy so I am used to having to use a knife a certain way to keep it from buckling on me.

My question really has to do with the last minute of the video. Did the frame lock slip out or did it bend the lock itself. I wish he had shown a close up of the Seb afterwards.

Also, let's say someone does repeat the second test and it fails with 45lbs or less, what does that do to the Seb. (Yes proper use will make the frame lock of the Seb function just fine, but 45lbs?) To me, it would impact how I look at them greatly. On the other hand, if someone does the test again and it does not fail, I certainly will question CS and view them a certain way.

Please remember I am a CRK fan here trying to think objectively.

Maybe Blade Hq or someone needs to step up and be a third party here. I certainly can't afford to test it myself.
 
At least for the whack test I'd expect a knife with the steel insert to do worse, not better. I don't know if it's because the titanium galls on steel and is more sticky as a result, but where I've seen lock bar slip issues in my knives when messing around with them it's been more frequent on knives with inserts than not. Of course for wear, I assume the steel insert lockups would be superior (though is lockbar wear a real issue for anyone in practice?).

This is exactly my point.

Metal moves readily when given quick, powerful blows, or when a more massive amount of force is applied over a wider area of metal. Think of how we forge steel into knives with hammers, or that steel presses use many tonnes of force to shape metal. Heat convinces the process to happen faster but that's beside the fact.

Titanium will abrade steel, especially when you're concentrating your area of impact, such as with spine whack tests or weight holding tests.

Given that framelock knives have specific, small areas which are in contact, knowing that the lock itself is designed to *slip* in and out of position, and relies on using friction to hold the lock in place, we shouldn't assume that the lock will hold when a sudden burst of energy is applied to a small area, or a large force is applied to the overall mechanism.

Try holding 45 lbs in one hand!

I believe you'll find that in real day to day use, you'd likely drop your knife if 45 lbs of pressure was suddenly applied to the spine of the blade, rather than have your fingers bit by the edge.

I also think that if you found 45lbs of pressure gradually pressing down on your knife, you'd do something to correct the situation before you got hurt, such as moving the knife away from the applied force, or letting go of the handle.

Of course, accidents happen.

Contrast the triad lock, which uses a spring to lower the lock bar into position. This lock bar does not rely on friction to hold it in place, and in fact resists movements made in the opposite direction, whereas frame and liner locks move sideways to allow blade movement. I think this is the largest reason for the difference in strength.

Edited to add that seel-on-steel will indeed produce less wear, which means that if lockup is solid, it is less likely to fail compared to steel-on-titanium, which due to material difference, will change lockup, possibly introducing slipping.
 
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Well, maybe to make everyone happy we need a Demko/CRK collaboration now: the Tri-Ad Mnandrew. I'd buy one. Just sayin'... :)

-Brett
 
If I forked out the money for a Sebenza I doubt I would use it very hard.

The thing is, the Sebenza has been around for 25 years and it's hard to find threads involving lock failure by users. Do you actually think, with the amount of people who don't like the Sebenza for any number of reasons, wouldn't be more vocal of repeated failures if they were common? Like I said before, I carried a CRK folder for around 7 years and used it for pretty much everything I needed to use a knife for over that time without issue. I'm not the only one. I have no problem acknowledging the Sebenzas in the video did poorly, but it doesn't negate what I've experienced, based on my real world use.
 
The conclusion I can draw is to carry a small hatchet or medium sized fixed blade if you are going to baton the blade or need to segment large pieces of wood by applying force to the spine of the blade.

The second conclusion is that a Sebenza would make a poor spotter in the gym.

When used as intended - as a knife - to cut and slice and enjoy for EDC purposes, I feel, based on this evidence, that the lock is suitable for these purposes.

Props to Cold Steel for making what appears to be a fixed blade folder.
 
Well, maybe to make everyone happy we need a Demko/CRK collaboration now: the Tri-Ad Mnandrew. I'd buy one. Just sayin'... :)

-Brett

I would be tempted. :D

Or, we get enough people to chip in $5 bucks and buy a new Seb and allow a third party dealer or whoever to test it. This thread may never end until a second test is given.
 
I own a Mnandi and four small 21s and use 2 of the 21s. I love them and they have never failed. I do not, not have ever owned a CS

I have watched the video and read the threads, but man, not even 45 lbs. Really?? Yes, I believe the test to be irrelevant. No, I cannot see using my knife in such a way that would cause either test to be validated. However, the video has created a desire for a stronger lock. Not a tank like the RAO, but at least something that is more capable.

I do not plan on selling my CRKs, nor do I plan on shelving them. No, I’m not going to buy a CS. They just do not appeal to me.
I am considering Benchmade and the Axis lock. I wish I liked the Spyderco and the PM2 but they just don’t do it for me. Nor does ZT (I've had a few)

I’ve been wanting to try M4 and S90V anyways and the video just pushed me more that way and less towards CRKs and frame locks.

Hey Brett!
Wanna try out some bad a$$ M4.....check out the exclusive BM 908 at KSF!!
Awesome knife that I've had for about a month.
Little pricey, but worth every penny!!
Joe
 
Where are we? Back in Junior High? Prove it! No, prove I don't. I double dare you to prove it. Well, I TRIPLE dare you to prove I don't. :rolleyes:

I've already stated what I own in other threads. If it's important for you to find out, go look for yourself. Oh, and when you get back be sure to bring a towel with you. You'll need it to wipe the egg off your face. ;)
I proved you wrong with a quote, you ignored it.

As for the Sebenza: it's obviously a great knife. The thing is, a titanium frame lock is not a strong lock relative to other locks. Force against the lock, due to the angle of the lock face and lock bar, either pushes it out or down. Your hand pressure and friction are the only things keeping it from moving out, the lock bar cutout is the only thing keeping it from moving down. Titanium is softer than steel so a steel liner lock with a same or more thick bar than the cutout, as most are, is stronger. The lock face on titanium frame locks, especially high end ones, often have more angle and earlier lock up than cheaper frame locks or liner locks, meaning they are more likely to slip off. These are clear, reasonable observations. It doesn't mean that a titanium frame lock is not a good knife, it just means it will fail lock strength tests more easily than well made other lock types. Considering back lock style locks (Triad, mid lock, etc) the force against the lock puts pressure against a flat surface on the tang of the knife. There is usually more contact with less angle, and less force in the direction of unlocking. To fail, these locks have to sheer the tang or lock bar which are usually the same steel at the same hardness and width, snap/crack the tang of the knife, or snap a pin with continued force/use against the lock. They're just by design more apt for lock strength tests.

On a separate but related note, the Axis lock also faces a similar issue in that the lock relies on the spring holding the lock bar on the tang of the blade. Because the lock bar is cylindrical and the tang is angled, under enough pressure it will simply overcome the spring and friction pressure and unlock. Still a good lock, just not as apt for these lock strength tests. As demonstrated by Benchmade's tests, they still face weight tests without shock and at slower speeds because those tests ensure more friction (that's why the locks deform the liners rather than unlocking).

Bam.
 
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