Sebenza

[Insipid Moniker]

Wasn't a joke. Maybe not finish, but they're put together pretty well and consistently done so. I've had Benchmades that were rock solid in construction while being smooth as glass, others (and a lot others) that could not be solid with out the action being too tight for my interests in an axis lock. Geometry is there, good grinds... Now in XHP. And DLC if that's ya fancy .

For what it's worth, I'm in agreement. F&F are certainly well short of CRK levels, but CS generally has quite good cutting geometry. I've used a Sebenza more than a bit and the cutting geometry was certainly good, but I've also cut with knives that had better for various tasks. No matter how tight your tolerances and how good your attention to detail stock thickness, grind height, and grind radius/angle are all pretty profound indicators of the results you're going to get. Once those choices have been made thickness behind the edge is the only thing that I've really seen make a profound impact on performance in terms of geometry.

 

[Makael]

This particular test..... hurts.

 

[bhyde]

Holy crap..we have another one of these threads in General Discussion too?

Here is some perspective on all this lock business..The Sebenza has been around more than 25yrs. Ever hear about anyone losing fingers? Is there anyone that uses a folding knife to hang off of?
It's a 25+yr old design..I would expect better designs to come around..however, I am sure that I won't be using a folding knife, expecting fixed blade strength..

Common sense..Use it and you won't have to worry about a lock failure on 99% of these knives.

 

[fetzer85]

Look at how much pressure he puts on it and tell me any knife would do that.

edit. not trying to come off confrontational, I'm just saying when he breaks the lock with his hand it seems ridiculously easy.

I agree but we really couldn't see what was going on or why it was happening.

While we're at it, let's have a test to see which is faster opening & closing with one hand 10 times in a row...lol

 

[Sosa]

I agree but we really couldn't see what was going on or why it was happening.

While we're at it, let's have a test to see which is faster opening & closing with one hand 10 times in a row...lol

I think that would void the warranty haha.

 

[DngrRuss1]

Mall ninja merchandising is about all those Cold Steel lock strength tests amount to AFAIC. Those who are persuaded by them deserve to be. And where's the 4-Max vs Extrema Ratio RAO test I've been calling for, I'd like to know? Competition's too rough for Cold Steel to take that one on, or so it would appear.

Production models of the Code 4 are not yet available.

 

[DngrRuss1]

I find it hard to believe a Sebenza can't hold 45 lbs., when a Kershaw frame lock that cost 35 bucks held 380. I would need to see it in person or done by other parties before I believe it. Even the Buck 110 held 380 and the Chinese Spyderco when tested by BladeHQ.

Hello again Jill.

I just watched the BladeHQ video, and I think I can see the issue with their weight hang test.

In all the CS comparative videos, as well as their Proof vids, they hang the weight exactly 4" from the pivot. This maximizes the leverage against the lock and evenly and fairly measures equal pressure against each lock. The only exception to this rule in the Proof vids is for smaller models with handles less than 4".

You can see in the BladeHQ video that the weight is not consistently hung from the exact same point on each knife. It appears to be anywhere from 1 to 2 inches from each pivot. This will give you inconsistent leverage against each lock.

I would venture to say that if you hung the weight at the exact same measured point, which would maximize the leverage against the locks, you might well see different results than the BladeHQ video test showed with the exact same models.

Taking that into consideration, with 45 pounds hung from 4" on both the Sebenza and the Code 4, the force would be roughly be 2 to 4 times as much as any of the knives in the BladeHQ video with the same weight hung 1 to 2 inches from the pivot.

And to some of the other naysayers on this thread, no, nobody altered or "rigged" the Sebenzas for this video. While some of you may be personally bothered by the CS video, it does not call for questioning Andrew Demko's integrity. Hyperbole will not change the outcomes.

 

[bld522]

So what? Andrew can test ANY Cold Steel knife with a Tri-Ad lock against a RAO and he'll lose. That's why he won't test it.

 

[DngrRuss1]

So what? Andrew can test ANY Cold Steel knife with a Tri-Ad lock against a RAO and he'll lose. That's why he won't test it.

I just answered your question re. your request for the 4-Max vs the RAO. I am sorry if you did not like my answer, but there is no need to get cranky.

 

[bld522]

I just answered your question re. your request for the 4-Max vs the RAO. I am sorry if you did not like my answer, but there is no need to get cranky.

It's not that I don't like your answer. You simply don't have an answer to the RAO. And from what I can gather, neither does Andrew Demko.

 

[Leftytwogunz]

What does it matter what knife wins in a pointless test?

You may as well be testing which knife sinks to the bottom of the lake the slowest or which knife you can throw the farthest.

Personally, if my locks can't support 800 pounds or better when held in a vice they must be junk. I like my knives to sink at a very slow rate, when compared to other knives, and I always evaluate a new knife for aerodynamics.

I also like them to be freezer resistant. In my home-made tests other brands had ice stick to them when they were left in the freezer together...so cold steel pretty much blows that one out of the water.

Don't even get me started on my in-house tests of which brand strums guitars the prettiest (cold steel) and which brand I could open 100 times with out my finger getting as tired (CS, again).

 

[Fanglekai]

What does it matter what knife wins in a pointless test?

You may as well be testing which knife sinks to the bottom of the lake the slowest or which knife you can throw the farthest.

Personally, if my locks can't support 800 pounds or better when held in a vice they must be junk. I like my knives to sink at a very slow rate, when compared to other knives, and I always evaluate a new knife for aerodynamics.

I also like them to be freezer resistant. In my home-made tests other brands had ice stick to them when they were left in the freezer together...so cold steel pretty much blows that one out of the water.

Don't even get me started on my in-house tests of which brand strums guitars the prettiest (cold steel) and which brand I could open 100 times with out my finger getting as tired (CS, again).

If it floats I won't lose it fishing when I drop it over board into the lake. That one would win for sure.

 

[Corytr]

And to some of the other naysayers on this thread, no, nobody altered or "rigged" the Sebenzas for this video. While some of you may be personally bothered by the CS video, it does not call for questioning Andrew Demko's integrity. Hyperbole will not change the outcomes.

How do you know that no one altered or "rigged" the Sebenza for this video?

Regardless of the so called "test" being done a Sebenza, a Spyderco, ZT, etc; I absolutely question the integrity of these tests. Flat out. I am not surprised to see the CS win in their own test yet again, but there is no way that Seb was that weak from CRK. Demko does this test on his OWN lock design FOR the company of the 'winning' knife. Why not have the competition participate, or at the very least verify their knife is at spec at the time of the test? Why not have a neutral party do the test? Why not test other aspects such as how long to develop play, edge retention, etc? Is this one test the focus because it the only area CS can consistently beat the competition? To me, these things make the test void and appear completely biased. The fact the other party had no say and this test was done by a tester who is in cahoots with one side of the comparison makes every doubt and question valid in my book.

I question Demko's motives a bit here as well. Why would he publish to the world these questionable tests that can be damaging to the other guy? Business is business, but you don't see companies like Spyderco or CRK attempting to defame other brands. They let their product speak for itself.

FWIW - Regardless of the tester, I don't doubt the CS would have beat the Sebenza in this test. Something just seems fishy here.

 

[scamero]

Not trolling at all, but I've always thought sebenza's were overrated. I owned one a couple of years ago, hardly carried it, and sold it off. They have nice tolerances, but they're just overpriced and overrated. Also, while the framelock is my favorite lock, I feel that they are one of the least strong of the locking systems. Just IMO as usual.

 

[herisson]

The framelock is a brilliant solution, simple and elegant, to the problem of locking a folder's blade. There are others, but from a mechanical point of view it's just "simple and brilliant". Is it the bestest ever ? Hell no ! Is it good enough for my EDC use of a knife ? Hell yes ! Will this Demko test disgust me from CRK knives ? Hell no ! Will I buy a Sebenza one of these days ? Hell yes ! Why ? They are an engineering achievement on their own and they are, simply put, absolutely elegant. Compare the Code 4... it's a brick. A very reliable, spine whacking resistant brick and a great mechanical achievement. I own a Pocket Bushmaster which is an absolute beast in this league. I respect it a lot but don't use it that much. Why ? Because in the controversy Power vs Style, I am more on the Style side... Can I sum it up thusly ?

 

[Hawk45]

I just opened a box with my CRK, all was good.

 

[Topcatpt]

The test is what it is. Test the knives to an extreme albiet a extreme that is not likely to ever been seen in real world use of the knife. Maybe in a self defense scenario is all I could see you getting somewhere around that force on spine of the blade. Unless your doing something stupid with the knife. With that in mind 45lbs is kinda crazy low and I was a little dissapointed in it. Now Im not saying crk sucks because of it I still miss my large micarta insingo and still want another one. As far as cut test cold steels have good geometry for cutting I would say my code 4 cuts just as good as my sebenza did. Their high hollow cuts pretty well. I do think the sebenza has a higher level of ff as it should as its around $300 more than most of the cold steel offerings. As for Demko and his integrity Ive met him, been to his shop, and have a established a friendship. From my personal experience his integrity is pretty high and he appreciates other quality knives. I will say he does like strong locks and thats something he strives for. But by no means do I think he would lie or rig a test. And these tests well he has a boss he takes orders from so I dont believe he picks the knives to test. Out of all that I still love demko's knives, crk knives, and some cold steels, and I do think the tests are interesting at least.

 

[Terrakot]

cross-reference from CRK forum. I'm keep insisting that the knives were fixed with different tightness.

Just for discussion.
Look at these 2 pictures with positions of knives after hit. I guess Code 4 (pic 1) wasn't fixed in proper way and it's allows to compensate the power of hit. Otherwise, Sebenza (pic 2) was fixed rigidly and kinetic energy was taken harder.

https://flic.kr/p/BzPYYj

https://flic.kr/p/AMZUdV

 

[Lee48]

Production models of the Code 4 are not yet available.

You sure about that? I have one on order right now. Should be here tomorrow. Maybe you meant another model.

The test doesn't surprise me too much. I'm not a great fan of CS knives but I do own a few. They are noted to be strong and durable. I ordered the Code 4 for the blade steel and size. I'm also not a great fan of the Sebenza although I do own one of the small models. Sebenzas are more respected for the details in their construction than for being overbuilt in the strength category.

 

[Insipid Moniker]

cross-reference from CRK forum. I'm keep insisting that the knives were fixed with different tightness.

Those pictures don't mean much, the Code 4 held, so more force will be transferred to the handle, thus causing the entire knife to rotate. The Sebenza gave way, thus taking less force and the handle remained static. Mr. Demko also measures the force with which the knives are secured so, well there may well be some minor variance, I doubt it's a primary reason for failure or lack thereof.