Sebenza

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The CS is impressive, and now somewhat on my radar. However I would not dismiss the Sebenza due to results of one test of 2 knives. No doubt the test results were disappointing, wonder how the 25 would have done.
The best analogy I can offer... Reminds me of a dodge neon pimped out 450-500hp out dragging the 40k vetts.. The Neon has glory of winning some drags, but still at the end of day, it's a Dodge Neon. Nothing wrong with the Neon, but will never have the drive qualities of Vett nor the experience. At the end to me its all preference with ton of choices, such as the debate on CS vs Sebenza.
 
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"Anything can be broken."
I read this^ here on Bladeforums.
Crazy.
rolf
 
Lee48 said:
You sure about that? I have one on order right now. Should be here tomorrow. Maybe you meant another model.

The test doesn't surprise me too much. I'm not a great fan of CS knives but I do own a few. They are noted to be strong and durable. I ordered the Code 4 for the blade steel and size. I'm also not a great fan of the Sebenza although I do own one of the small models. Sebenzas are more respected for the details in their construction than for being overbuilt in the strength category.
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Sorry, I did put in the wrong model. I meant the 4-Max.
 
My gosh. I'm not surprised about the asshurt, but I am surprised about, well, the surprise. Do you people honestly expect a framelock to compare to a Tri-Ad or even a lockback in reliability? It's simple physics. While I am surprised that the CRK didn't do as well as the ZTs Mr. Demko tested, I'm not surprised that it couldn't compare to the strength of the Tri-Ad. I expected the original framelock to be one of the best framelocks.

Many posts here are correctly stating that in their use, the strength of the Tri-Ad lock is moot, and that the Sebenza's lock more than meets their needs. CS generally targets their knives towards a different demographic: primarily, military, law enforcement and martial artists. These are the people who are more likely to care about lock strength because they're more likely to need it. For most people who carry an EDC blade, a lock is not really necessary because we aren't likely to be in the extreme situations that CS' target market could be.

Today, I've got a Ti framelock in my pocket. I feel completely secure about its lock strength because I'm not likely to need anything more. However, if it turns out that I do, I've got a small CS fixed blade on my keychain; I have always maintained that a folding knife is not a smart person's first choice for a rough use blade, regardless of the lock strength. Like others have said in other threads, a folding knife should always be treated as if it doesn't lock at all.

I think it's silly to be in denial about the test results, and I think the asshurt comes from a lack of understanding regarding the importance of lock strength, the target markets of each company, and the purpose of a folding knife. Y'all need to remember that the Code 4 was designed as an EDC for law enforcement, not as rich Uncle Joe's apple slicer.
 
brancron said:
I wonder how my Hiroaki Ohta friction folder would hold up in one of these tests!

V3iAvCx.jpg
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How do you like that one? I've been eyeballing them on the KC site but keep stopping myself from picking one up because I rarely carry the friction folders I've bought. Those just look really nice, though, so I keep going back to them.
 
I'm torn by these tests; on the one hand, lock strength isn't likely to be ever hit with anything like these forces in normal knife use but on the other hand, after handling four new Striders, three of which I could casually make fail with just hand pressure on the spine, maybe it's a good idea that someone checks these things out. My brand new Emerson CQC-7B closed as easily as a SAK when I got it in the mail--clearly there is a case for some basic level of lock reliability testing.
 
evilgreg said:
How do you like that one? I've been eyeballing them on the KC site but keep stopping myself from picking one up because I rarely carry the friction folders I've bought. Those just look really nice, though, so I keep going back to them.
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This is actually the first friction folder that I really like. The integral wooden handle is beautifully done, the knife is smooth but doesn't flop around in the pivot, the blade is thinly ground so cuts really well, it weighs almost nothing, and it actually feels useful in the hand, unlike several other friction folders I've tried. It's also small enough that the exposed tang in the closed position isn't too annoying--this is a big problem with larger friction folders.
 
Insipid Moniker said:
Those pictures don't mean much, the Code 4 held, so more force will be transferred to the handle, thus causing the entire knife to rotate. The Sebenza gave way, thus taking less force and the handle remained static. Mr. Demko also measures the force with which the knives are secured so, well there may well be some minor variance, I doubt it's a primary reason for failure or lack thereof.
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I never did like the fact that each knife tested was bolted on by one point; the ability to pivot around the bottom bolt makes this test a bit questionable IMHO.

Each folder should be attached to the swinging weight arm by a bottom bolt and a stop pin higher up near the knife pivot on the arm itself (so the knife is essentially attached to the weight arm and cannot rotate) so all force is directly on the blade/lock....

To keep it scientific ya know. ;):rolleyes::D
 
brancron said:
I wonder how my Hiroaki Ohta friction folder would hold up in one of these tests!

V3iAvCx.jpg
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It will give in gracefully without breaking the lock and thus win. It's like the Judoka among the folders. If it would swing freely in both directions than its actually Aikido I believe.
 
Czechmate said:
I never did like the fact that each knife tested was bolted on by one point; the ability to pivot around the bottom bolt makes this test a bit questionable IMHO.

Each folder should be attached to the swinging weight arm by a bottom bolt and a stop pin higher up near the knife pivot on the arm itself (so the knife is essentially attached to the weight arm and cannot rotate) so all force is directly on the blade/lock....

To keep it scientific ya know. ;):rolleyes::D
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I actually agree. I would suggest a slightly modified Charpy machine to test the locks for the spine whack bit. Now, it would undoubtedly break whatever knife you put into it, but it would also give you a much more exact idea of how much impact they could absorb.
 
I personally own both cs and crk and... If you want some cutting performance go with a cold steel voyager xl, it's like a folding kitchen knife! For fit and finish I think cs has good for the money. And for great cutting try the hold out iii, they have some of the best performance on the market with cts xhp and ffg.
 
Don't forget that gripping the knife has no effect on the holding capability of the Tri-ad lock however it does provide great aid on a frame lock. (to help keep it from closing)

If Demko's tests are so 'refined and scientific' don't you think he'd realize that? I understand their lock is going to beat 99% of the competition however missing details liken this is important.
 
Insipid Moniker said:
I actually agree. I would suggest a slightly modified Charpy machine to test the locks for the spine whack bit. Now, it would undoubtedly break whatever knife you put into it, but it would also give you a much more exact idea of how much impact they could absorb.
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That is a neat idea. :thumbup:

I like how benchmade tests their locks as well; it seems to take most of the variables out of the equation and the knife is held while increasing pressure on the spine of the blade is applied. :thumbup: Still might be moot in the real world though LOL...

For those that aren't familiar; a Chatillon force testing machine in use:

[youtube]6ZwwLWQk664[/youtube]
 
The harder you use a knife the harder the grip. In the frame locks case it adds a lot to lock strength. The stronger grip you have would factor in as well.
 
Precisely. Unless the lockbar bends or breaks, it's hard to imagine a properly designed framelock failing under actual use.
 
Jens Schuetz said:
It will give in gracefully without breaking the lock and thus win. It's like the Judoka among the folders. If it would swing freely in both directions than its actually Aikido I believe.
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Haha well played Jens! Well played!
 
Most people say "my grip secures a framelock". That makes sense but in the real world I have found differently... I have done my own testing and in doing so have made a number of framelocks unlock when I didn't want them to. Everytime the lockbar simply disengaged and sprung to the unlocked position, easily pushing the meat of my fingers (that theoretically reinforce the lock up) over. Short of white knuckling my knife all the time, the notion of framelocks being reinforced by the users grip hasn't proven true for me. Now I think design plays into this a lot, a skinnier lock bar provided less surface area for my grip to reinforce and I could get a grip that seemed to hold the lockbar securely but it wasn't a natural grip I would use.

All of this of course is just in my experience. I like Coldsteel, CRK and framelocks in general still.
 
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