Sebenza

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DngrRuss1 said:
The NIH conclusion is that knife manufacturers should make safer design.
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Or perhaps people should use fixed-blades instead of folders. In most cases, I suspect what's actually going on is failure to match the correct tool to the job. It's not the design's fault, it's the user's fault.

If you use the wrong tool and you injure yourself with it, you have no one to blame but yourself.
 
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bld522 said:
No, I'd say you nailed it. But your first sentence holds the key. Would performing torque cuts in a harder material with a folder be considered safe use? Perhaps for some, but not for me. I reserve those kinds of cuts for my fixed-blade knives. And to this very day, I have never tried cutting anything with the spine of my knife. So testing a knife by applying force to it's spine is practically meaningless as far as I'm concerned. If you want to test lock strength, test it in actual use doing the kinds of things that might cause the lock to fail. Then we'll see what we're really dealing with.
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For me I use my folder for everything, often a fixed blade isn't handy. I don't see anything wrong with how you do things. But we obviously do things differently. Many place lock strength pretty low on the spectrum of important qualities, I happen to place it a little higher than most. Certainly not at the top tho.

Some people like fast cars, some like Hybrids.

Some like spicy food, some don't.

It takes all kinds of kinds :)
 
kniferbro said:
It takes all kinds of kinds :)
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That's for sure. :)

I guess I just have a pretty rigid definition of what constitutes the proper use of a folder. The best definition of a folder I've ever heard is that a folder is a fixed-blade knife that's been broken by design. That's why I don't ask too much of my folders. I carry lightweight folders to perform lightweight tasks and I leave the hard stuff to knives that are still intact. ;)
 
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I'm not going to defend the Sebenza and its conspicuous failure in the Demko test, but I will say that ultimately, the end result was a foregone conclusion. Pitting a Tri-Ad folder against a ti framelock, *any* ti framelock, is not a contest. It is a spectacle.

"But the Cold Steel fans requested it." Sure they did. But why? Is it the old "my $100 knife is just-as-good-as or better than your $400 knife" rub? Maybe just to watch a 'haughty' Sebenza be destroyed? CRK has made no claim that the RIL offers superior strength over other folder locks. So what was the point of the video?

To me, the video was more about the weakness of the Sebenza rather than the strength of the Code 4. But I suppose the cost of ruining a couple expensive folders is a pretty cheap means of generating publicity. Emphasis on the word 'cheap.' :thumbdn:

-Brett
 
I would say this Imo cold steel and Crk are aimed a diffrent group of knife users. Id say a good 80/90 % of people who own and use knives never go to a forum about knives. Never watch youtube videos or read knife magazines. These are the people most likely to pull a folding knife out and do what ever it is they need to do with it even if its not a proper use of the knife. I think cold steel said hey lets build a lock that is harder to make fail for the average user. Sebenzas are made for people who are more into the collecting aspect of knives. I cant see a farmer who is working all day pulling out a sebenza to pry open a can or dig a nail out of fencing some where. Its almost like comparing a mini van to a cadillac. The users are interested in diffrent properties of their vehicles.
 
If the community requested it and there is no foul play involved in the test - even if the test isn't particularly informative or useful - why is so much ridicule being aimed at Cold Steel?

Clearly, if the test didn't do anything for you, then you aren't the intended market. I used to be one of those guys who was all in a huff about lock strength, as my initial dip into "expensive" knives was Cold Steel Counter Point II back in 2011 or so. I was prompted to look into better knives after hearing about a lock failing on a friend of a friend who then lost a digit in the process.

Regardless, I understand the test is nearly pointless aside from generating buzz. It's fun to see, however, and it's not like it's going to hurt Chris Reeve's business given that his general market could hardly care less about a Cold Steel knife whether it has a stronger lock or not.

I don't see this as reflecting negatively on anyone but the fanbase for requesting such a silly test on a knife they already knew was going to pale by comparison of lock strength. The Tri-Ad lock is physically stronger than most - if not all - other locks on the market, regardless of the maker or the price range. The videos are a foregone conclusion before they even begin, and it's just destruction porn once that is realized.

Also, it's worth mentioning that Demko and the CS crews never say "What a piece of crap. Don't buy this. Buy our knives instead because they're better." They compare lock strengths using repeatable tests, and pretty much leave it at that.

(I haven't watched this particular video, so, if they do say that in the video, then I'll look extra silly. I hope that A.D. has more professionalism than that. Or, at least, as much professionalism as one can have when smacking knives with weighted striking tools.)
 
Comeuppance said:
If the community requested it and there is no foul play involved in the test - even if the test isn't particularly informative or useful - why is so much ridicule being aimed at Cold Steel?
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For me at least, it's the ongoing notion that reliance on the safety feature of the wrong tool is an acceptable substitute for using the right tool instead.
 
Comeuppance said:
Also, it's worth mentioning that Demko and the CS crews never say "What a piece of crap. Don't buy this. Buy our knives instead because they're better." They compare lock strengths using repeatable tests, and pretty much leave it at that.

(I haven't watched this particular video, so, if they do say that in the video, then I'll look extra silly. I hope that A.D. has more professionalism than that. Or, at least, as much professionalism as one can have when smacking knives with weighted striking tools.)
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You're right, FWIW--they're actually quite complimentary of the Sebenza in this test video.
 
retzius said:
I would like to see CS test their Recon 1 against an Emerson. I already know what the results would be, but the amount of angry butt-hurt would be epic and quite entertaining.
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Like what's happening now with the Sebenza? :D
 
bld522 said:
I'll see you and raise you one . . . doing them AT ALL doesn't make them legit . . . except perhaps in the minds of the mall-ninja warriors they're geared at influencing. If anything, I'd argue that they actually send the wrong message by giving people the idea that a lock can prevent them from injuring themselves if they don't use their folders in a safe manner.
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I think it's extremely disrespectful to refer to the LEOs, military personnel and martial artists who comprise Cold Steel's intended customer base as "mall ninjas".
 
I have decided, after careful consideration, that I am too concerned with lock safety and am going to sell of my knives and just carry a 2x4 for my EDC. The geometry is a bit obtuse but it still takes care of my food prep:

apcxXz5l.jpg


I will feel a lot better knowing I wont have to worry about standing on my new knife 4" from the pivot, which I might have to do with my pocketknife...:rolleyes:
 
Funny if the CRK folders are so weak, this one is used to make a hole in a solid board and spine whacked without damage.

[video=youtube;iI5k2J73LAs]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iI5k2J73LAs[/video]
 
For those defending the Sebenza, is a lock that fails under hand pressure alone acceptable to you?
 
Kwon Kwang said:
I think it's extremely disrespectful to refer to the LEOs, military personnel and martial artists who comprise Cold Steel's intended customer base as "mall ninjas".
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Not really any more disrespectful than those who refer to all CRK users as "butthurt fanboys".

Jim
 
Also a bit strange a Chinese clone can withstand all this...

[video=youtube;61Whdgt1vHQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=61Whdgt1vHQ[/video]
 
Glad to see Coldsteel is staying classy, don't have to worry about browsing their catalog anytime soon.
 
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