Sebenza

[Lycosa]

I'd wish Chris Reeve would chime in.

 

[bhyde]

I'd wish Chris Reeve would chime in.

Not sure it would make a difference, but I am sure that he will not.

 

[B.F.U]

Yep. Browse this one instead:

http://www.18-xray.com/Brouchre/EXTREMA RATIO/files/extrema ratio catalog - january 2010.pdf

Pay particular attention to the description of the RAO on page 27, to wit:

"The result of our research is a knife called RAO; a survival knife that is not a big folder but a compact field knife with a strong, heavy blade and a very safe locking system that is assisted by an extra safe device which transforms the folder into a fixed blade knife." [Emphasis added]

If you see what I see, you just met the folder that the Tri-Ad lock cannot compete with . . . virtually or actually.

You're really passionate about this subject.

EDIT: I just looked at that catalog. HOLY BEJEEZUS, and you call Cold Steel mall ninja/tacticool?!

It failed under hand pressure AFTER spine whacking and the strength test..I will also add had those two tests been reversed, the results may well be different...Don't think Demko knew this?
As in math, order of operations.

No, it was a new knife. Only failed the weight tests.

 

[bld522]

Isn't that thing like 12 ounces and not exactly convenient to open or close, though (unless I'm remembering wrong, doesn't it have to be assembled after opening by adding a pin or somesuch)?

That said, they did beat on one of those Wildsteer WX knives with the double lock--it did pretty terribly, as I recall, and it had the same sort of marketing "becomes a fixed blade" stuff, so maybe CS will take a stab at the RAO. Then again, maybe you're right and they already did, but they couldn't beat it so the video never saw the light of day . . .

The RAO is certainly not a knife I'd be willing to carry. But until Cold Steel can prove otherwise, I'm giving the RAO the benefit of the doubt that it's stronger than any knife currently manufactured by Cold Steel that contains a Tri-Ad lock.

 

[Ccc]

I'd wish Chris Reeve would chime in.

I really hope CRK doesn't. I don't think there is anything to add, and I think the only high road here is to ignore it. He has always let his product speak for itself.

 

[bghorn]

The purpose of a lock is to lock, the purpose of a knife is to cut.

A knife can still be a knife if it doesn't lock.
A knife can NOT be a knife if it doesn't cut.
Mark = missed.

Again:
a) You have to understand that knives are used for more than cutting
b) Lock is a safety feature
c) Knives are also sold to people who aren't "expert knife users"

We differ on our preferences. Nothing wrong with that.

I have plenty of non-locking folders and I was using them since I was 7, which is almost 60 years. That doesn't mean I can't see the benefit of a locking folder.
I know how to ride a horse. Does that mean I shouldn't buy a car?

 

[bld522]

You're really passionate about this subject.

No more passionate than LT is that Cold Steel makes the strongest folders on the planet. If he's so sure, let him prove it.

 

[jill jackson]

All I know is I gave it a real workout.

I carry that exact knife I tested everyday. :thumbup:

There you go good enough for me. In fact I'd trust your tests to show real usage more than cold steel's single minded BS any day. Just like the Zaan I posted showing how tuff it really is.

 

[Ccc]

I know how to ride a horse. Does that mean I shouldn't buy a car?

No, it just means that you don't strap a horse and a car next to each other on a stand, hang heavy weights from the tire and hoof and then declare that a horse is a bad method of transportation after you snap its leg.

 

[bghorn]

And if you had common sense, you'd realize that the best use of any safety system is not having to rely on it at all.

That doesn't mean safety feature has to be crap if device/tool/system is equipped with one.

 

[bghorn]

No, it just means that you don't strap a horse and a car next to each other on a stand, hang heavy weights from the tire and hoof and then declare that a horse is a bad method of transportation after you snap its leg.

Well, figure out better lock strength test and report back here. We are all ears...

 

[Ccc]

Well, figure out better lock strength test and report back here. We are all ears...

I don't think that is necessary. I have no product competing in this market.

I am just pointing out (like I did earlier) that many analogies in this thread are illogical, and that a lock (while nice to have) does not make a knife "good" or "bad."

(EDIT: changed wording to better reflect my statement. I don't think the test was faulty, just that it doesn't reflect what many knife users consider necessary.)

 

[Insipid Moniker]

For me at least, it's the ongoing notion that reliance on the safety feature of the wrong tool is an acceptable substitute for using the right tool instead.

If X can consistently perform Y task without failure due to superior strength or construction why isn't it the right tool for the job? Cuts with lateral torque were brought up and you dismissed that as a job for a fixed blade, but slipjoints have been doing that for years. Heck, the whittler pattern is so named for an activity that involves a ton of those cuts. That's one big reason I don't care for framelocks. When there are tasks that I feel safer performing with a knife that does not have any type of lock rather than a framelock I have difficulty accepting it as good design.

 

[bld522]

If X can consistently perform Y task without failure due to superior strength or construction why isn't it the right tool for the job? Cuts with lateral torque were brought up and you dismissed that as a job for a fixed blade, but slipjoints have been doing that for years. Heck, the whittler pattern is so named for an activity that involves a ton of those cuts. That's one big reason I don't care for framelocks. When there are tasks that I feel safer performing with a knife that does not have any type of lock rather than a framelock I have difficulty accepting it as good design.

It doesn't sound like we have an argument here. As always, it's a matter of matching the tool to the job. Can a whittler whittle? Of course. That's what it's designed to do.

 

[evilgreg]

Heck, the whittler pattern is so named for an activity that involves a ton of those cuts..

That's one of the reasons I care about lock strength, actually. I whittle, and I like to lever cut with a lot of pressure on the blade spine, which would be a no-no if I was using something like my GEC Tidioute whittler. So if I carve with a folder it's pretty much exclusively with one of these, FWIW:

 

[bhyde]

You're really passionate about this subject.

EDIT: I just looked at that catalog. HOLY BEJEEZUS, and you call Cold Steel mall ninja/tacticool?!

No, it was a new knife. Only failed the weight tests.

I didn't catch that part watching the vid- Good to know..Thanks!

Again:
a) You have to understand that knives are used for more than cutting
b) Lock is a safety feature
c) Knives are also sold to people who aren't "expert knife users"





I have plenty of non-locking folders and I was using them since I was 7, which is almost 60 years. That doesn't mean I can't see the benefit of a locking folder.
I know how to ride a horse. Does that mean I shouldn't buy a car?

a) many people use them as hammers, prybars, splitting devices- Was that the intended purpose?
b) a lock is a safety feature when it was designed to be one..Not sure Chris designed this to be used in a direction other than cutting..Never had one close while cutting as it was designed
c) so are guns..but as my signature states; Never underestimate the ingenuity of an idiot

You should buy what suits you, but know how to use it..Read all the literature..etc, etc.
Your analogy is much like warnings on pill bottles or chemicals..Should we just not make those chemicals that are useful? Wait..it's different and probably doesn't apply

There you go good enough for me. In fact I'd trust your tests to show real usage more than cold steel's single minded BS any day. Just like the Zaan I posted showing how tuff it really is.

:thumbup:

Thanks for the Umnumzaan vid!

That doesn't mean safety feature has to be crap if device/tool/system is equipped with one.

Totally true- If it was meant to be a safety feature..

 

[Insipid Moniker]

It doesn't sound like we have an argument here. As always, it's a matter of matching the tool to the job. Can a whittler whittle? Of course. That's what it's designed to do.

But a framelock can't. But a Triad lock certainly can. Or an Axis lock. Or Compression lock. Or Powerlock. Or Bolt Action lock. Or backlock. How many folders can be the right tool for the job before the one that's wrong is a liability?

 

[bld522]

When it gets to the point that a safety issue is involved. I tend to stay way away from that point. If I'm going to err, I'll err on the side of safety every time. YMMV.

 

[DJC72]

Over the past few years, I've seen countless videos of knives being absolutely abused and holding up really well. I read a review by SBaker34 who beat on a Spyderco Manix and the knife performed beautifully. Yet, the same knives fail with seconds of Cold Steels tests. What does that tell? How real world are they? Guess that's for the individual to decide.

Think about how many amazing knife companies are in existence today. Your telling me they can't come up with a lock that can rival the Triad Lock. Of course they could, they chose not to because current liner, compression, frame locks hold up just fine if one ounce of common sense is used.

Cold Steel knives are a good bang for the buck, they have so many positives to promote. I'll never understand their marketing. Then again, who does?

 

[BladeScout]

Caveat; I dont own neither a Sebbie nor a Code4, but I like some knives from both companies and have bought knives from both companies (mostly fixed blade knives).

The test is interesting.....but thats it.

No, the test wont change anything. The diehard Sebbie fans are firmly entrenched, close ranks and will not under any circumstance abide even the slightest hint that their knife, (which has been elevated to near divinity status) is being even faintly slighted.

Some CS fans on the other side delight in the imagined consequences of the test and revel in being able to say I-told-You-so to those doubting that a CS knife will always be way stronger than anything else - even a Sebbie.

I dont see, why there is any butthurt at all. The test most likely dont tell people what they didnt already know about locks, but here it comes:

Spine whacking has no relevance in real life and no relevance for the most common use of these knives.

Except in one singular and exceptional instance of course! Does anybody remember the thread with the guy claiming to have fended off several frothing attack dogs by spine whacking them on the snouts? Man, that was a hoot. I still gets hiccups from laughing when thinking about the claim.