Separating maker from knife

[navman]

I agree he should not have made the reaffirmation unless he was indeed 100% sure...it throws egg on his face. But, regardless, Drew is honest and up front about his own business and history, I think he just got caught up in the "no teammate left behind" attitude and let it get in the way of his judgement.

I have no dog in this fight, other than knowing and respecting Drew. The guys from RESCO made their own bed and need to lay in it.

 

[J. Doyle]

I agree he should not have made the reaffirmation unless he was indeed 100% sure...it throws egg on his face. But, regardless, Drew is honest and up front about his own business and history, I think he just got caught up in the "no teammate left behind" attitude and let it get in the way of his judgement.

I have no dog in this fight, other than knowing and respecting Drew. The guys from RESCO made their own bed and need to lay in it.

 

[Kevin W.]

I won't buy a knife from a person or company I can't respect.

If I find out after the fact, I rid my collection of that maker's work.

This has always been my policy...and always will be.

Respect. I think this is why I buy A.G. Russell in house designs. I've got to chat with AG and Goldie and respect them as people and what they do for the community (knife and local).

Talking to Goldie they have the same stance on makers and material providers as the OP that made me respect them more.

 

[Danke42]

I won't buy a knife from a person or company I can't respect.

If I find out after the fact, I rid my collection of that maker's work.

This has always been my policy...and always will be.

I kept my Strider and my ZT/Strider but I never carry them. I think they are a valuable reminder to check and recheck.

 

[Blues]

I kept my Strider and my ZT/Strider but I never carry them. I think they are a valuable reminder to check and recheck.

I don't go out looking for signs of bad character. But if and when they emerge, it's hard to put the genie back in the bottle.

 

[Danke42]

I don't go out looking for signs of bad character. But if and when they emerge, it's hard to put the genie back in the bottle.

They got me belivin' the hype.

 

[GreenTeaKiller]

Benchmade had a debacle some years back when they cut up a bunch of guns for the police. Turned out they/some of them within the organization were donating to anti 2a politicians and organizations. Still the same management. I've been in several gun shops that stopped carrying them for this reason.

Sorry, but I think that the whole Benchmade cutting up guns debacle is just silly. Let's say you own a machine shop and the police department contacts you directly and asks for your assistance.
As a law-abiding citizen, you would probably be inclined to oblige. The guns are going to be destroyed anyway, it's not like Benchmade had anything to do with the legislation or enforcement of the law.
It doesn't show that Benchmade are anti-2A, it only shows that they're pro-law enforcement.

I would also like to add that you guys are missing a TON of makers in your list. Importing Chinese knives and claiming them to be made in the USA is nothing new and has been a part of the mid-tech
market for longer than most would care to acknowledge. That's one of the reasons why I don't buy mid-techs anymore. I saw the dirty underbelly of the mid-tech world. Mid-tech = Made in China, sold at made in the USA prices.

 

[shinyedges]

Sorry, but I think that the whole Benchmade cutting up guns debacle is just silly. Let's say you own a machine shop and the police department contacts you directly and asks for your assistance.
As a law-abiding citizen, you would be inclined to oblige. The guns are going to be destroyed anyway, it's not like Benchmade had anything to do with the legislation or enforcement of the law.
It doesn't show that Benchmade are anti-2A, it only shows that they're pro-law enforcement.

I would also like to add that you guys are missing a TON of makers in your list. Importing Chinese knives and claiming them to be made in the USA is nothing new and has been a part of the mid-tech
market for longer than most would care to acknowledge. That's one of the reasons why I don't buy mid-techs anymore. I saw the dirty underbelly of the mid-tech world. Mid-tech = Made in China, sold at made in the USA prices.

1. No, as a law abiding citizen no one is inclined to do anything because a government entity requests it. Departments have budgets that buy vehicles and night vision, they can't buy a 60.00 angle grinder or a band saw?

2. They donated to politicians that support anti gun legislation, do the research before you bump old threads talking nonsense. Makes a lot of logical sense to support politicians who would infringe on our God given right to protect ourselves by disarming us, while they drive around with men armed with machine guns to protect them and lived behind paid security, doesn't it? They aren't Anti gun, lol. They are anti PEASANTS having guns. They sure as hell want guns, so they can make you do whatever the hell they decree.

After they remove the guns they go after knives, just take a look at the UK. Pointed kitchen knives? Locking folders? You'll need a reason to carry an opinel, and if your reason doesn't suffice, off to jail in the paddy wagon and don't resist before they club you over the head.

3. For crying outloud, you have NO idea how long this forums memory is when it comes to lying, shitty makers.


Finally, Benchmade supporting politicians who hate our constitutional rights is old news. Most people don't care anyway and continue to support them. Not sure the point of bumping this thread to start a conversation that was long done.

 

[topfuel6]

There are companies I refuse to support for various reasons, I'll list a few:

Strider- lying, stolen valor, pretend operator scumbag
Hoback- lying, stolen righteousness, importing from china but claiming usa made scumbag
Brk- lying, manipulative and thieving* scumbag
Qtrmstr- lying, facility faking, importing from China but claiming usa made scumbag
Benchmade(mostly)- engaging and supporting activities and organizations that are anti 2A (after the 2a is gone, they leave knives alone, right? )
Survive!- lying, excuse making failing to give people their knives they paid for ponzi scheme scumbags

*thieving applies to strider as well

Now, some people can like the knife and separate the maker from the knife. Simply put they don't care who they support or what they've done so long as they like the knife.

Where do YOU fall on this topic? Is there a path to redemption for some or any of them? Do you not care at all?

well regulated militia is important.

There are companies I refuse to support for various reasons, I'll list a few:

Strider- lying, stolen valor, pretend operator scumbag
Hoback- lying, stolen righteousness, importing from china but claiming usa made scumbag
Brk- lying, manipulative and thieving* scumbag
Qtrmstr- lying, facility faking, importing from China but claiming usa made scumbag
Benchmade(mostly)- engaging and supporting activities and organizations that are anti 2A (after the 2a is gone, they leave knives alone, right? )
Survive!- lying, excuse making failing to give people their knives they paid for ponzi scheme scumbags

*thieving applies to strider as well

Now, some people can like the knife and separate the maker from the knife. Simply put they don't care who they support or what they've done so long as they like the knife.

Where do YOU fall on this topic? Is there a path to redemption for some or any of them? Do you not care at all?

Yes, God bless a well regulated militia.

 

[jux t]

 

[ooitzoo]

No, as a law abiding citizen no one is inclined to do anything because a government entity requests it. Departments have budgets that buy vehicles and night vision, they can't buy a 60.00 angle grinder or a band saw?

Agreed. The PO likely paid them to do it. Unless you have evidence to the contrary. Bad look but not something I'd exclude them for by itself.

They donated to politicians that support anti gun legislation, do the research before you bump old threads talking nonsense. Makes a lot of logical sense to support politicians who would infringe on our God given right to protect ourselves by disarming us, while they drive around with men armed with machine guns to protect them and lived behind paid security, doesn't it? They aren't Anti gun, lol. They are anti PEASANTS having guns. They sure as hell want guns, so they can make you do whatever the hell they decree.

Do you have evidence of this? If so, I am inclined to agree with you. You don't need to dredge up old links and whatnot; just a pointer to the relevant posts here would suffice.

For crying outloud, you have NO idea how long this forums memory is when it comes to lying, shitty makers.

Yep. Agreed.

So you have evidence for Strider thieving (I recall the stolen valor and generally making himself to be a real-life Steven Seagal but not stealing anything) and the Hoback stuff?

 

[shinyedges]

Agreed. The PO likely paid them to do it. Unless you have evidence to the contrary. Bad look but not something I'd exclude them for by itself.

Do you have evidence of this? If so, I am inclined to agree with you. You don't need to dredge up old links and whatnot; just a pointer to the relevant posts here would suffice.

Yep. Agreed.

So you have evidence for Strider thieving (I recall the stolen valor and generally making himself to be a real-life Steven Seagal but not stealing anything) and the Hoback stuff?

Opensecrets.org lists specifically which politicians have been supported. A quick Google search will turn up plenty for you to read. The cutting up guns part when combined with their donation history speaks enough for me personally to not support them. Seems foolish and shortsighted to support the party that will inevitably come for what your company makes and sells, but hey, we've only seen this play out in other countries multiple times.

Hobacks debacle is well documented here on the forum. Here's a fun read:

Thread 'When it's not exactly Made in the USA - Hoback'

Mar 2, 2022

Hoback now admitted they source parts from out of country

From ig

Sorry for the small text, but it's what the company posted.

My immediate thought is what a scummy thing to do in all of your advertising using the claim USA made (sorry missing 100 percent mind you), when it's really more like USA assembled. With the prices that go on a Hoback I can't believe quality US parts were just impossible to find.

Feels like......lying......I have none and won't but one now.

But Hoback I know is by far not the only one.......qtrmst.....

• Yo Mama
• Replies: 2,182
• Forum: FEEDBACK: The Good, The Bad, The Ugly!

• 
• 

Mick burger was sentenced to 5 years in prison for stealing someones vehicle/carjacking them. He lied in court and tried to make it appear it was part of a black ops operation.

 

[ooitzoo]

Opensecrets.org lists specifically which politicians have been supported. A quick Google search will turn up plenty for you to read. The cutting up guns part when combined with their donation history speaks enough for me personally to not support them. Seems foolish and shortsighted to support the party that will inevitably come for what your company makes and sells, but hey, we've only seen this play out in other countries multiple times.

Here's what I found: https://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/benchmade-knife-co/totals?id=D000047693

It looks like individuals working at BM made donations to democrats (and it is that generic). To me, this isn't the smoking gun that it sounds like. A company has no control over which candidates its employees donate to (nor would we want them to).

It also looks like those #s have gone to zero in the last two cycles. Perhaps the offending parties have been shown the door. I will google the remainder later but, for now, it's fairly explainable.

If you recall Black Rifle Coffee Co. got into a similar mess until it was noted that they were donating to Tulsi which, personally, I am OK with.

Hobacks debacle is well documented here on the forum. Here's a fun read:

I could well be missing the context here but it looks like Jake is saying he never held out his knives to be 100% American made. Again, to me at least, manufacturing in China isn't an excluding factor. Hell, most knife companies do this. All of this is predicating on Jake not holding out otherwise.

Mick burger was sentenced to 5 years in prison for stealing someones vehicle/carjacking them. He lied in court and tried to make it appear it was part of a black ops operation.

Mick being a POS isn't something new. This, along with the Black Hawk down fiasco, doesn't make the man look good. With that said, I am unaware of him doing anything untoward in the knife community. I interpreted your "thieving" comment to mean he stole from Knife Knuts.

 

[shinyedges]

Here's what I found: https://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/benchmade-knife-co/totals?id=D000047693

It looks like individuals working at BM made donations to democrats (and it is that generic). To me, this isn't the smoking gun that it sounds like. A company has no control over which candidates its employees donate to (nor would we want them to).

It also looks like those #s have gone to zero in the last two cycles. Perhaps the offending parties have been shown the door. I will google the remainder later but, for now, it's fairly explainable.

Maybe, that's for each individual to decide. I don't force my reasoning on others, support who you'd like.

If you recall Black Rifle Coffee Co. got into a similar mess until it was noted that they were donating to Tulsi which, personally, I am OK with.

Not just tulsi if I remember correctly, one of the owners also donated to act blue. Again, support who you'd like, but I'll pass.

I could well be missing the context here but it looks like Jake is saying he never held out his knives to be 100% American made. Again, to me at least, manufacturing in China isn't an excluding factor. Hell, most knife companies do this. All of this is predicating on Jake not holding out otherwise.

If you read the 100+ page thread you'd have much more context, but that's a long read and I get it, no one wants to read that much about hoback on a Sunday. That said, I'd disagree with your assessment given everything that was discussed and came to light regarding Jake hoback.

Mick being a POS isn't something new. This, along with the Black Hawk down fiasco, doesn't make the man look good. With that said, I am unaware of him doing anything untoward in the knife community. I interpreted your "thieving" comment to mean he stole from Knife Knuts.

Not sure why you took it that way, he is in fact a convicted thief, and a well documented liar. So my assertion is 100% factual on micky. A common reoccurring them in my reply will be... support who you will.


Frankly, I don't care if you buy knives directly from Kim Jong un after he starved 10,000 people to death, it's your money, you spend it how you'd like.

 

[ooitzoo]

Maybe, that's for each individual to decide. I don't force my reasoning on others, support who you'd like.

Not just tulsi if I remember correctly, one of the owners also donated to act blue. Again, support who you'd like, but I'll pass.



If you read the 100+ page thread you'd have much more context, but that's a long read and I get it, no one wants to read that much about hoback on a Sunday. That said, I'd disagree with your assessment given everything that was discussed and came to light regarding Jake hoback.


Not sure why you took it that way, he is in fact a convicted thief, and a well documented liar. So my assertion is 100% factual on micky. A common reoccurring them in my reply will be... support who you will.


Frankly, I don't care if you buy knives directly from Kim Jong un after he starved 10,000 people to death, it's your money, you spend it how you'd like.

Perhaps my post came off as overly argumentative. This was not my intent. I am generally interested in this topic as I believe your $$ vote is far better at shaping action then your political one. Its why I won't buy Flytanium or Springfield Arms stuff.

Re: Hoback -- would you mind giving me the tl;dr? Did he, in fact, represent his products to be American made? If so, then I agree its scummy.

Strider being a convicted thief BEFORE getting into the knife world I can forgive. Surely, we can agree that folks are allowed to rehab themselves? Is there anything about him engaging in scummy behavior in the knife world?

 

[Drop bear]

The people selling me the best knives for the best money are looking after me in my opinion.

So I will support them

 

[shinyedges]

Perhaps my post came off as overly argumentative. This was not my intent. I am generally interested in this topic as I believe your $$ vote is far better at shaping action then your political one. Its why I won't buy Flytanium or Springfield Arms stuff.

Re: Hoback -- would you mind giving me the tl;dr? Did he, in fact, represent his products to be American made? If so, then I agree its scummy.

Strider being a convicted thief BEFORE getting into the knife world I can forgive. Surely, we can agree that folks are allowed to rehab themselves? Is there anything about him engaging in scummy behavior in the knife world?

The tl;dr of hoback was items were shipped to the united states from China and should have been labeled but magically wasn't. Coincidentally, he plastered American made all over his website and social media. What was actually American made and what was completely made in China was unclear, for both parts and completed knives. After the beans got spilled he released some information about models that were entirely made in China and it was an eye opener. The laws requiring labeling of products origin of manufacturing were being disregarded, perhaps the labeling was being removed after customs cleared it? Idk. There was more, but it's been awhile. I've had several hobacks and believed they were American made, from what I gleaned on his website. Turns out they were made in China.

Regarding strider, meh. He profited from his lies about being a combat vet and going to Somalia. He's never atoned or acknowledged/apologized. If anything he's doubled down. Rehabilitation comes with atonement, doesnt it? I'd consider duping people and building a business on lies to be a form of theft, whether 5 years or 100 goes by.

 

[ooitzoo]

Thank you.

I've had several hobacks and believed they were American made, from what I gleaned on his website. Turns out they were made in China.

I'll have to check this out. I own a few Hobacks which I generally really like. It'd be good to know where they came from.

He profited from his lies about being a combat vet and going to Somalia

He also claimed to be part of the Black Hawk Down rescue team (alternating between Delta and USMC IIRC).

I'd consider duping people and building a business on lies to be a form of theft, whether 5 years or 100 goes by.

From what I've seen, he stopped claiming to be Steven Seagal, Bruce Lee, Frank Dux, and John Wick decades ago. Likely bc of the negative attention he got. A fair bit of it, IIRC, came out during his divorce by his ex-wife. At the time, I took it with a grain of salt due to the source.

 

[shinyedges]

Thank you.


I'll have to check this out. I own a few Hobacks which I generally really like. It'd be good to know where they came from.

He also claimed to be part of the Black Hawk Down rescue team (alternating between Delta and USMC IIRC).

From what I've seen, he stopped claiming to be Steven Seagal, Bruce Lee, Frank Dux, and John Wick decades ago. Likely bc of the negative attention he got. A fair bit of it, IIRC, came out during his divorce by his ex-wife. At the time, I took it with a grain of salt due to the source.

Somewhere there is a picture of what was made where, if I can find it I'll post it for you. You might have a Chinese knife and not know it. The lack of honesty is more the issue than the knife itself. Especially considering he plastered Bible verses on them and then intentionally hid where they were made. He went into damage control to mitigate the fallout but it was to little to late. Several retailers had to change their websites to reflect China as the origin and if I recall, some stopped carrying them.

 

[ooitzoo]

Somewhere there is a picture of what was made where, if I can find it I'll post it for you. You might have a Chinese knife and not know it. The lack of honesty is more the issue than the knife itself. Especially considering he plastered Bible verses on them and then intentionally hid where they were made. He went into damage control to mitigate the fallout but it was to little to late. Several retailers had to change their websites to reflect China as the origin and if I recall, some stopped carrying them.

Oh, I agree. I don't intend to dispose of the knives in question. I do intend to think long and hard before getting another Hoback though. I appreciate the info nonetheless.