Separating maker from knife

[norcalAF]

The older I get the easier it is to separate maker from the knife. Same goes for music.

For me, music I can separate, but for tools and such I try to support folks that are similarly aligned in mentality.

 

[stonproject]

For me, music I can separate, but for tools and such I try to support folks that are similarly aligned in mentality.

I would almost see them in the opposite direction as you if I had to take a stance. A tool or knife is an inanimate object. It doesn't portray ideas or beliefs (unless you engrave symbols or words I guess) while music is directly stating a message. Why do you delineate music as ok but a pocket knife not ok?

 

[norcalAF]

I would almost see them in the opposite direction as you if I had to take a stance. A tool or knife is an inanimate object. It doesn't portray ideas or beliefs (unless you engrave symbols or words I guess) while music is directly stating a message. Why do you delineate music as ok but a pocket knife not ok?

I like to think that I'm supporting my ideals by using and purchasing tools created by someone with similar ideals. With music I more appreciate the talent, even if the artist doesn't share my ideals. I have noticed that I am drawn more towards musicians that are similar in mindset, but that is more due to the messages in their music, not who they are as a person.

 

[Quiet]

Sometimes a bit confusing...

Chinese knives...bad
Russian knives...still good and bought freely

Want to say that I find that odd as well. As soon as [the highly politically-charged thing I won't discuss here, happened] I moved the few knives I owned from Russian makers along. I have two or three Chinese knives, primarily because I've met the American designers who had them made, so it was a small pass of sorts.

 

[Steven65]

Sometimes a bit confusing...

Chinese knives...bad
Russian knives...still good and bought freely

I own 2 Shiro's. They are fantastic knives and too my knowledge they have never done anything to tarnish their reputation with their customers.

However if it's implied that somehow we shouldn't own Russian knives, made long before the present problems by people who have absolutely nothing to do with the current situation, then I'm calling BS. Play the ball, not the man.

Chinese knives for me are different for one reason and one reason alone.......they have generally been very economic with the truth where steel origin and heat treat specifications are concerned.
Basically much of the steel used by Chinese factories, which is claimed to be of US origin with proprietary nomenclature, is not.
However exceptions do exist. I have several knives from David Reate, they are fantastic and as well made and correctly described as any factory in the world you care to name.

 

[J. Doyle]

There are companies I refuse to support for various reasons, I'll list a few:

Strider- lying, stolen valor, pretend operator scumbag
Hoback- lying, stolen righteousness, importing from china but claiming usa made scumbag
Brk- lying, manipulative and thieving* scumbag
Qtrmstr- lying, facility faking, importing from China but claiming usa made scumbag
Benchmade(mostly)- engaging and supporting activities and organizations that are anti 2A (after the 2a is gone, they leave knives alone, right? )
Survive!- lying, excuse making failing to give people their knives they paid for ponzi scheme scumbags

*thieving applies to strider as well

Now, some people can like the knife and separate the maker from the knife. Simply put they don't care who they support or what they've done so long as they like the knife.

Where do YOU fall on this topic? Is there a path to redemption for some or any of them? Do you not care at all?

I would add Gooseworks Arena/Resco Instruments to the list. And possibly by way of lying in support of the aforementioned....Half Face Blades.

 

[shinyedges]

I would add Gooseworks Arena/Resco Instruments to the list. And possibly by way of lying in support of the aforementioned....Half Face Blades.

I'm unfamiliar with them, I'll use some Google fu. Thank you.

 

[Chowser]

I can't separate the brand/maker, and I don't want to, either. I also understand that no-one is perfect, and making mistakes can be an opportunity to learn. I know that I own a few knives made by people who have some values different than my own, and I'm okay with that, just generally not lookin' to enable people I find awful.

 

[Chefget]

I own 2 Shiro's. They are fantastic knives and too my knowledge they have never done anything to tarnish their reputation with their customers.

However if it's implied that somehow we shouldn't own Russian knives, made long before the present problems by people who have absolutely nothing to do with the current situation, then I'm calling BS. Play the ball, not the man.

Chinese knives for me are different for one reason and one reason alone.......they have generally been very economic with the truth where steel origin and heat treat specifications are concerned.
Basically much of the steel used by Chinese factories, which is claimed to be of US origin with proprietary nomenclature, is not.
However exceptions do exist. I have several knives from David Reate, they are fantastic and as well made and correctly described as any factory in the world you care to name.

We all have our reasons for buying/not buying products.

For me incorrect steel type is slightly below desperately trying to start WWIII.

The ball depends on the game

 

[Steven65]

We all have our reasons for buying/not buying products.

For me incorrect steel type is slightly below desperately trying to start WWIII.

The ball depends on the game

Fair enough......
I respect your opinion but disagree with it.

 

[sgage1]

Unfortunately if you look into any product hard enough you'll find something you dislike about all of them.

 

[SwissHeritageCo]

I would almost see them in the opposite direction as you if I had to take a stance. A tool or knife is an inanimate object. It doesn't portray ideas or beliefs (unless you engrave symbols or words I guess) while music is directly stating a message. Why do you delineate music as ok but a pocket knife not ok?

I'm not so sure about that, personally speaking. I feel like knives, tools, and designs in general are imbued with their own unique energy that really adds to the level of satisfaction. Identifying and recognizing a makers thought process (and finding it agreeable) adds a lot to my experience.

 

[Jsega51]

I own 2 Shiro's. They are fantastic knives and too my knowledge they have never done anything to tarnish their reputation with their customers.

However if it's implied that somehow we shouldn't own Russian knives, made long before the present problems by people who have absolutely nothing to do with the current situation, then I'm calling BS. Play the ball, not the man.

I own several Shirogorov knives as well and haven’t read or heard anywhere that Sergey Shirogorov or the company has done anything to wrong their customers or deceive them like many of the people/companies that were mentioned on pg. 1 have done but now I’m curious. Maybe Chefget or Quiet have proof of something that happened? Has Sergey himself or Shirogorov shown support for the current conflict or is there proof that they are “desperately trying to start WWIII”?

If not and the angst is just about what the Russian Govt has chosen to do, that seems misguided to me. Think about if someone from any country other than the US exclaimed they were going to sell their CRK’s, Randall’s, Bucks, or GEC’s, etc, and vow to not buy another just because of a US Govt action or policy with no wrongdoing by the individuals or companies making knives, it just sounds ridiculous to pigeon hole them and lay blame for something they had nothing to do with. I bet all of those hard working people would hate to hear that they and their products are somehow “tainted”, American or otherwise.

 

[Quiet]

I own several Shirogorov knives as well and haven’t read or heard anywhere that Sergey Shirogorov or the company has done anything to wrong their customers or deceive them like many of the people/companies that were mentioned on pg. 1 have done but now I’m curious. Maybe Chefget or Quiet have proof of something that happened? Has Sergey himself or Shirogorov shown support for the current conflict or is there proof that they are “desperately trying to start WWIII”?

If not and the angst is just about what the Russian Govt has chosen to do, that seems misguided to me. Think about if someone from any country other than the US exclaimed they were going to sell their CRK’s, Randall’s, Bucks, or GEC’s, etc, and vow to not buy another just because of a US Govt action or policy with no wrongdoing by the individuals or companies making knives, it just sounds ridiculous to pigeon hole them and lay blame for something they had nothing to do with. I bet all of those hard working people would hate to hear that they and their products are somehow “tainted”, American or otherwise.

With all due respect, I don't make decisions or hold opinions based on what others think of those opinions, decisions, or me personally. Russia decided to attack another country, I decided to sell my Russian knives. It's pretty simple to me. Enjoy your Russian knives. I will enjoy all my hundreds of non-Russian knives, absolutely no trouble at all.

 

[shinyedges]

I own several Shirogorov knives as well and haven’t read or heard anywhere that Sergey Shirogorov or the company has done anything to wrong their customers or deceive them like many of the people/companies that were mentioned on pg. 1 have done but now I’m curious. Maybe Chefget or Quiet have proof of something that happened? Has Sergey himself or Shirogorov shown support for the current conflict or is there proof that they are “desperately trying to start WWIII”?

If not and the angst is just about what the Russian Govt has chosen to do, that seems misguided to me. Think about if someone from any country other than the US exclaimed they were going to sell their CRK’s, Randall’s, Bucks, or GEC’s, etc, and vow to not buy another just because of a US Govt action or policy with no wrongdoing by the individuals or companies making knives, it just sounds ridiculous to pigeon hole them and lay blame for something they had nothing to do with. I bet all of those hard working people would hate to hear that they and their products are somehow “tainted”, American or otherwise.

I agree. The issue with Chinese knives and their manufacturers, history of ip theft, and the very open chinese communist party controlling private business with intent to destroy competitors is entirely different than what's happened with Russia.

I don't see a correlation nor would I like to be blamed for the harmful things our own rogue military industrial complex does. To each his own though, anyone can sell their knives if the wind blows. But equating Russia and China or comparing shiro with the scumbaggery in my first post? Na. Not without proof, for me at least.

Strider earned the stain to his reputation. As well as survive and the rest of em. Shirogorovs crime is being born to a Russia. How many don't like the US for our invasions? Perhaps people forget or gulped down the lies of our many wars.

 

[Blues]

This is not the place to discuss the Chinese Communist Party, Xi, Putin, the war in Ukraine or politics. If we continue down that road, the thread will be closed per forum guidelines.

Makers, their products and their ethics are fair game. National and international politics are not.

If you don't want to purchase items from makers hailing from a given country because of its policies, that's fine, it's your right and your personal choice...it's just not fodder for this discussion.

Thank you.

 

[shinyedges]

Understood, perhaps to have a conversation about knife companies we need to make a thread in the PA? Lol Everything is headed to the PA, the PA needs a knife section

 

[Blues]

Understood, perhaps to have a conversation about knife companies we need to make a thread in the PA? Lol Everything is headed to the PA, the PA needs a knife section

I understand it's a hard line to walk. I personally avoid purchases from certain locations when possible. But I don't necessarily equate individuals in those locales with the policies of their governments. (It doesn't change my buying habits, however.)

So, we can discuss the makers from those areas and whether they are good and ethical and worthy of support...but we need to resist dragging the baggage they (may) carry because of the country they reside in, into this conversation.

 

[shinyedges]

I understand it's a hard line to walk. I personally avoid purchases from certain locations when possible. But I don't necessarily equate individuals in those locales with the policies of their governments. (It doesn't change my buying habits, however.)

So, we can discuss the makers from those areas and whether they are good and ethical and worthy of support...but we need to resist dragging the baggage they (may) carry because of the country they reside in, into this conversation.

It's always been the rule here in GKD.

I get it, it's a slippery slope. Some of these conversations inevitably lead to some form of prohibited conversation which is tough. I feel like we end up there at the prohibited parts often lately. Pricing and inflation, country of manufacturing and so on lead us to things we can't discuss. Perhaps the PA really is the place for these discussions, though when the thread was made it wasn't intended to be political, it just always seems to slide that way. Perhaps more thought into if a thread may go political is the answer. If the thread may or does have some form of political undertones just make the thread in PA.

 

[Quiet]

I understand it's a hard line to walk. I personally avoid purchases from certain locations when possible. But I don't necessarily equate individuals in those locales with the policies of their governments. (It doesn't change my buying habits, however.)

So, we can discuss the makers from those areas and whether they are good and ethical and worthy of support...but we need to resist dragging the baggage they (may) carry because of the country they reside in, into this conversation.

It's always been the rule here in GKD.

This is better said than I was able to get across. Comments like "I think your views are misguided" warranted a response, and I wasn't trying to get a political discussion going, for what it's worth. I know it's not the place for it.