Shame on you Jim Adams

Status
Not open for further replies.
JC in SC said:
Wow, 28 pages and I still have questions:eek: I've followed this from the beginning, but I'm sure that I missed some original posts and caught only the edits.

I'd like to preface my comments with the stipulation that I cannot condone Mr. Adams' actions in any regard under any circumstances. That being said...

I can however, appreciate his frustration at finding out that he had been commissioned to copy someone else's design. Looking at it from a different perspective, if someone were to contact me from halfway around the world to make them a knife, presumably from having seen my previous work, I would be very flattered. As an "aspiring knifemaker" I'd be more than flattered, I'd be ecstatic. Assuming what Mr. Adams said is accurate (I know, a big assumption), after dropping ~$200 on materials only to find that I'd been commisioned to knock off another design, I'd be upset. Realizing that it wasn't my talent that got me the commission, but that I'm willing to do it cheaper than the originator, I'd be devastated. Again, I can think of a thousand more appropriate ways to respond than the dishonesty displayed here, but people don't always think straight in an emotional state.

Now that I've opened myself up to ridicule for sympathizing with Mr. Adam's emotional state amidst the early stages of this incident, I would like to request some clarification from Delwin.

If you truly felt that there was nothing wrong with asking Maker B to copy Maker A's design, then why go to the trouble to sketch a copy of Mr. Burch's knife? Why not simply provide a photo of Mr. Burch's knife for reproduction? Honestly, in this circumstance, I don't buy the whole "imitation is the most sincere form of flattery" line. I think buying Maker A's knife at his asking price is the most sincere from of flattery and trying to buy Maker A's design from Maker B at 1/2 the price is, excuse my frankness, cheap.

I hope everyone will believe me when I say that I am not trying to be antagonistic. I ask because others have asked similar questions throughout this thread and there has been little attempt to address those. I understand and appreciate the language barrier, but I also think that more benefit of the doubt has been extended to Delwin because of it. From my perspective, the actions of providing a drawing instead of simply mentioning that you'd like a more economical version of Mr. Burch's knife imply that you knew that what you were asking was at least frowned upon. I'm no expert in international business nor the customs of Singapore, but I'm fairly confident that it is relatively common knowledge that theft of intellectual property, whether explicity covered by patents or not, is frowned upon in the western world. I also believe that in cases such as these, the decision to ignore the norms of other cultures is merely economics.

Editted to add that I do hope that Delwin gets his money back. Yet another reason why you should never accept money before you're ready to deliver a knife.
Click to expand...

I don't think it was a matter of cost, but a matter of not being able to have Mr. Burch make him one and not being able to find one second hand. But who knows? Truly it is irrelevant to me.

The reason it looks like I am extending Delwin with the benefit of the doubt, is because Mr. Adams tried using this to justify theft and running a sleazy practice.

I even went and found the model for Mr. Adams that was copied because he didn't seem to know.

And I don't think you opened yourself up to ridicule at all, I think you were pretty much on the money.
 
The question that has been bugging me all along is this:

I am under the impression that one of the best things about having a custom knife made is the interaction with the knifemaker (I am having my first custom worked on right now). Lots of communication back and forth; one of the keynotes that separates this from buying a production knife at a store, regardless of the quality of the piece.

If so, then why didn't Mr. Adams contact Delwin early on and communicate with him, even if only to complain? The scenario looks like this to me: Adams finds out that he is duplicating another's knife. He is understandably upset, also from the expenditure he has had to put out. But instead of contacting Delwin, voicing his feelings, and maybe negotiating partial compensation, he engages in the actions we have all condemned.

Frankly, his conduct and sad lack of mental stability in time provided all the answer I needed. Or would ever get.
 
ASBOB said:
The question that has been bugging me all along is this:

Why didn't Mr. Adams contact Delwin early on and communicate with him, even if only to complain?
Click to expand...

Any true professional would have contacted him and said,

"I have noticed that the design you sent me is very similar to another maker's work, why don't we tweak it a bit to better fit your needs and more accurately show my style".

End of story, drama avoided, maker gets his money, customer gets his knife, career saved.

Instead he tried to steal the money, until he got exposed.
 
JC in SC said:
If you truly felt that there was nothing wrong with asking Maker B to copy Maker A's design, then why go to the trouble to sketch a copy of Mr. Burch's knife? Why not simply provide a photo of Mr. Burch's knife for reproduction? Honestly, in this circumstance, I don't buy the whole "imitation is the most sincere form of flattery" line. I think buying Maker A's knife at his asking price is the most sincere from of flattery and trying to buy Maker A's design from Maker B at 1/2 the price is, excuse my frankness, cheap.
Click to expand...

Delwin addressed this matter somewhat:

Delwin said:
Yap, i had to agreed with what you said that it is common for chinese manufacturers to literally steal the designs of makers, right down to the markings. it is also common to copy design elements so the end product looks remarkably like the original. I dont know that this is not good in here as this is my first time ordering from US.
But if he is not really comfortable with what i wanted, he can advise me of a few changes. I would be gradly ok with it. Infact this way will make the knife unique.
Got to stop here. Will try to answer all questions tomorrow.
Click to expand...
 
Seems Adams has been hassled in the past about his habit of copying other knifemakers' designs, so he thought if he accused Delwin of trying to trick him into doing that (yet again) that would distract people from his theft. It wasn't totally unsuccessful ... distracted a few people a little bit....
 
Mr. Adams has retreated to a not altogether difficult to locate locale. To date Delwin has not received his promised refund.
 
Last edited:
Cougar Allen said:
Seems Adams has been hassled in the past about his habit of copying other knifemakers' designs, so he thought if he accused Delwin of trying to trick him into doing that (yet again) that would distract people from his theft. It wasn't totally unsuccessful ... distracted a few people a little bit....
Click to expand...

Speculation or fact? After seeing the knife and the picture as well as reading Delwin's claims, I'm still convinced neither party was entirely in the right.
 
You don't have to be you just have to look at the onus of responsibility. In Law once consideration has been made ($$ exchanged) there is a contract. Mr. Adams had no choice but to produce a knife or a refund. Everything else is exascerbating but superfluous. The fake identity. The verbal assaults and the subsequent departure prior to being banned erasing all the "proof". All that just goes to Adams character or lack there of.
 
Guyon said:
Speculation or fact? After seeing the knife and the picture as well as reading Delwin's claims, I'm still convinced neither party was entirely in the right.
Click to expand...

I think his folder's are basically Sebenza copies. Ti framelocks, single thumb lugs, same basic blade shape... obviously not as nicely finished, but still. He said he'd send me $100 if I could "prove" it was a Sebenza copy. :rolleyes:
 
EMT_Lee said:
I think his folder's are basically Sebenza copies. Ti framelocks, single thumb lugs, same basic blade shape... obviously not as nicely finished, but still. He said he'd send me $100 if I could "prove" it was a Sebenza copy. :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

It clearly is a Sebenza copy but so are at least two other knives I can think of which is one of the reasons the debate that surrounded this was such a smoke screen.
Who determines what is a copy or a rip-off and where are the written guidelines? There aren't any. You'll never see your $100 and Delwin will probably never see his $$ but at least Adams will continue to be exposed for the liar and cheat that he is and by doing so. GOOD knife makers and unsuspecting consumers will be protected.
 
Guyon said:
Speculation or fact? After seeing the knife and the picture as well as reading Delwin's claims, I'm still convinced neither party was entirely in the right.
Click to expand...
We can all see the resemblance of the drawing to Burchtree's knife. However, Adams' outrage at being commissioned to make a knife that resembles another knifemaker's design seems to me quite disingenuous. If he's so outraged at the idea of copying a design why doesn't he stop doing it? :confused:
 
Cougar Allen said:
We can all see the resemblance of the drawing to Burchtree's knife. However, Adams' outrage at being commissioned to make a knife that resembles another knifemaker's design seems to me quite disingenuous. If he's so outraged at the idea of copying a design why doesn't he stop doing it? :confused:
Click to expand...

Oh I agree. And I recall that was we saw was not Delwin's actual drawing, but Jim Adams' tracing of said drawing (or so we were told).
But Delwin pretty freely admits that he was trying to get one maker to craft someone else's design because that's just how they do things in China.
I want the guy to get his money back promptly, but he's not all sparkly and clean in this matter, best I can tell.
That's not me being "distracted" by Jim's craziness. Just an assessment of what I've read so far.
 
Send him a sketch and a money order! Can you even imagine someone doing that with this guy ever again? Thing I think about is the guys that do this for a living And the possible effect on sales guys like Adams have. It is an effect you can't measure because you can't record the missed sale. Will buyers gravitate toward the bigger more well known names and away from the lesser known makers to try and avoid this type of thing.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top