Sharpening Record Page

I find whittling is a nice check on sharpening and it has been interesting to see how different my various knives take the edge. They will all get sharp enough but my cheap Mora does it very easily while my U2 takes a very gentle touch. My best edges come from .25 micron diamond spray on a tensioned leather strop. I have played around with lots of stropping variations (wood, leather on wood, several compounds) but the best has been from pulling the leather very tightly using my bench vise.

In this photo I was trying to whittle a praying mantis figure :)

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That's cool :thumbup:
Have you tried MDF as a strop base? it works very well with diamond spray.


Welcome to BF!
 
I tried some MDF early on and it seemed like it picked up grit that would embed in the surface and create scratches on the edge. It worked great the first couple uses but once it got anything on it I felt I couldn't trust it any more.

I have a full woodworking shop so I have made several nice leather-on-wood strops to give me the flat surface for chisels and plane irons. I run the bare leather through the drum sander (sanding the rough side) to get the thickness exact. After gluing it to the board with waterproof glue, I soak the leather and clamp it as tight as possible to compress the leather as it dries. A light sanding with 400 grit paper, followed by leather conditioner gives me a surface that is very smooth but loads up nicely with compound. The result is a silky surface that gives great feedback and gives me very consistent results. While these are great for straight edges, I prefer the tensioned leather with the same surface prep for the curved edge on most knives. It flexes to conform to the curve and give a nice even pressure along the full edge.

On the other hand, MDF did everything I really needed, I just didn't like the harsh feel of it and started experimenting. I can't honestly say that my life has been measurably improved by my obsession!
 
Storing your strops vertical will help with airborn particals sticking to it, I have had the same problem in the past with leather strops too. I guess you could take it a step further and put them in an inclosure but since I have started standing them on end I have not had that problem.

Try sanding the surface of the MDF to around 600 or 800 grit, the factory surface of MDF is fiber like and those fibers can cause scratches too. Also check out bull leather http://www.japaneseknifesharpeningstore.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=HAScrBull It works the best with diamond spray.
 
You are absolutely right on storage - I made covers for my most critical strops and hang the rest. But I am a bit of a slob about putting things away so "grit happens".

I didn't try sanding the MDF but that makes sense. I'm pretty happy with the system I have now unless I decide to start shaving with my chisels (they will tree top arm hair but don't pass the hanging hair test yet!). The bull leather is interesting but I make my strops about 2 feet long and would have a hard time adapting to an 11" shorty. Maybe I'm compensating for something..... I use their diamond spray and CrO though. For my woodwork the CrO is all I really need. I only pull out the diamond strops when I am going for a hero edge which I have never really found any actual need for in real life. It is nice to know I can do it, but unless I am whittling hair that last bit of super sharp is pretty meaningless.
 
knifenut1013 said:
Also check out bull leather http://www.japaneseknifesharpeningstore.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=HAScrBull It works the best with diamond spray.
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I have the bull leather and diamond spray, do you have any tips? I am still getting better edges on my knives with my 3M AO lapping film. I tried the diamonds on lapping film and they just seem to end up at the bottom of the film after stripping. I keep each bull leather strop (1 each for 1, .5, and .25 micron diamond spray) and my edges just don't seem to improve over my 8000 grit edges much, and definately not as good as my 3M lapping film. Maybe I'm using too much pressure on the leather after using the lapping film on glass for so long? After all of the great reviews on the diamond spray and the talk about how good the bull leather is I'd love to start maximizing my sharpness with it. The loaded bull leather seems really gritty, while the lapping film over glass is dead smooth when sharpening on it. I probably just need a lighter touch but I would really appreciate some tips to help me justify my investment in the diamond spray.

Mike
 
I don't have the bull leather, but it took me a while to figure out how to get a good result from stropping with diamond. The key for me is to work in a quiet space and listen for the sound of the edge meeting the strop. Start at a low angle and lift it as you strop until you hear the slight hiss of the edge. That is the angle you need to maintain - light pressure is also important. A lot of people flip back and forth to get both sides but I find it works better to dial in your angle and then take multiple strokes on that side before flipping it. You can take a last pass of one stroke per side, but it is easier to hold the angle if you aren't flipping at every stroke.

I was stropping at too low an angle, trying to duplicate the sharpening angle. Once I started listening to the blade everything fell into place.

Good luck!
 
Using less pressure is key until the surface breaks-in, if you use too much pressure you will round the edge. Too much spray can also cause problems, 3 sprays is all that's needed to start and if you need more go one at a time. Once the surface has broke-in it will look more compressed and you can start using more pressure if you like but that only increases the convex effect and does not make the spray work any faster. I only have one peice of the bull leather now and it is coated with the 1 micron spray, it seems to make the diamond spray work faster plus the leather is very hard giving good feed back. I have been stopping with the bull leather and 1 micron spray because it is giving such good rusults I don't feel the need to go any lower.... unless I feel like having fun :D
If you are trying to polish a microbevel do not use the same angle as the microbevel go more acute. I would also give up on those lapping films and try some MDF.

I use all but the last half inch of the leather in this pic you can see the unused leather (right) and the used leather (left)
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Picture504.jpg


Here is a close up of the coated and compressed surface
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The 1 micron and bull leather is all I seem to need, I don't have a use for a knife any sharper again unless for fun.
Picture507.jpg


One more very important thing is you will also need to let the diamond spray go through its break in process. It does not take long maybe 20 or so strokes, its when the surface starts to shine is when they really start working.
 
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Thanks foe the tips and pics, Knifenut. It looks like my strips just need to be broken in and I need to get used to using leather again. Anything into the Shapton 8000 grit range is beyond simple hair whittling, so the strops/3M lapping films are really more for showoff and fun than anything anyway. On full bevel sharpening on very hard and wear resistant steels those diamonds should be able to save me some time over my lapping films and their AO grit. I just was a little dismayed when I made a knife less sharp the first time I tried using it. My Spyderco Police 3 is nearing needing a sharpening so I will probably use it's 4 3/8" blade to help me get all those diamonds settled into the bull leather and get the leather to firm up. At least I now know what the strops should look like when properly broken in. I think I used a bit too much spray, as I think they got over 3 sprays.

Thanks, Mike
 
HaHa!! Here she is . A free hanging hair. No stropping. The finished touch was created using a fine ceramic rod to add a microbevel . The knife is a Buck 503.

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Knifenut, I finally dulled my Krein regrind Police 3 to the point of needing a sharpening, and I used it to give each of my strops 40-50 strokes per side and they started to settle in for me and look a bit moe like yours. I then completely rebeveled the knife and it was easily whittling hair after my 8000 grit (1.84 micron) Shapton Glasstone. I then used my 1 micron diamond spray loaded bull leather strop, and quickly polished the microbevel I was working to whittling hair much better. It definately cut faster than my AO lapping film, but on a microbevel it wasn't nearly as big of a time saver as it would be on a full bevel shapening, but it definately saved time. I then did .5 and .25 micron on the other strops, and the edge was very similar to what I get after my .3 micron lapping film, just in less time. Those strops didn't feel like they were cutting quite as quick as the 1 micron, and I think they may need 1 more spray. I just need to figure out how to evenly spread that1 spray over the whole strop. Either way it worked great, then for good measure I used my .05 micron AO lapping film for overkill. It took a little while for that guy to do it's magic, but it did take the already way overkill edge another step in sharpness.

Mike
 
I have been able to put a hair splitting edge on my;
benchmade rant
SAK camper
becker BK-2
spyderco tenacious
gerber LMFII

cant figure out how to post pics I can email them though
 
gnw1209 said:
I have been able to put a hair splitting edge on my;
benchmade rant
SAK camper
becker BK-2
spyderco tenacious
gerber LMFII

cant figure out how to post pics I can email them though
Click to expand...

Get a photobucket account.





Mike, Good to hear there starting to work for you. Its not a surprise that the Film made it sharper or "feel" sharper, hard surface sharpening will make the edge very stright and thin overall. You will find with the leather that because it has a little give it will slightly convex the edge, this change in the edge shape will make the edge more durable and cut much better. Though it may not be sharper it will cut like it is.
 
Knifenut, since the edge was already convexed by my biomechanics and the leather for 3 different grits before I got to the lapping film the final edge is definately convexed on the microbevel and should give all of the benefits you mentioned. I have found hardly any difference in cutting ability after putting a microbevel on a several degree thinner backbevel, so I don't know how noticeable another degree or two of slight convexing adds to edge retention, but if it does I'm all for it. Either way the knife ended up really sharp and ready for cutting. I used light pressure on that firm leather and wonder how much more convexing I get versus my firmer pressure on the lapping film over glass. Again, since I'm not an Edge Pro or using a jig my natural sharpening motion brings in some convexing, and I'm sure even light pressure on firm leather brings out a tiny bit more convexing.

Mike
 
gunmike1 said:
Knifenut, I finally dulled my Krein regrind Police 3 to the point of needing a sharpening, and I used it to give each of my strops 40-50 strokes per side and they started to settle in for me and look a bit moe like yours. I then completely rebeveled the knife and it was easily whittling hair after my 8000 grit (1.84 micron) Shapton Glasstone. I then used my 1 micron diamond spray loaded bull leather strop, and quickly polished the microbevel I was working to whittling hair much better. It definately cut faster than my AO lapping film, but on a microbevel it wasn't nearly as big of a time saver as it would be on a full bevel shapening, but it definately saved time. I then did .5 and .25 micron on the other strops, and the edge was very similar to what I get after my .3 micron lapping film, just in less time. Those strops didn't feel like they were cutting quite as quick as the 1 micron, and I think they may need 1 more spray. I just need to figure out how to evenly spread that1 spray over the whole strop. Either way it worked great, then for good measure I used my .05 micron AO lapping film for overkill. It took a little while for that guy to do it's magic, but it did take the already way overkill edge another step in sharpness.

Mike
Click to expand...

This is why I use CrO - Green Rouge. I bought brick of it - I guess ligetime stock for me and useit over srtretched not glued leather.

Trick here is softness because edge we are dealing with is highly delicate already - 0.2 microns (I am wondering how microbvel even play any role on this sizes) and what needed - very gentle handling. As you may see here different people uses different technics to get to the same results - from Green Rouge on newspaper to holding ceramic stones with hand on the air.

With stretched leather over wooden base it works as a buffer for hand shakes and so handle edge pretty gentle - if not to press too much on the first place of course

Another important thing in my method is to heat up Green compound, it should be semymelted - this add as well additional softness to handle edge. Now I am pretty consistent in making any steel (except CPM S110V) whittling human hair without problem.

I recently had a chance to found that there is no difference between my Russian hairs and Chinese - only color.

Thanks, Vassili.
 
nozh2002 said:
This is why I use CrO - Green Rouge. I bought brick of it - I guess ligetime stock for me and useit over srtretched not glued leather.

Trick here is softness because edge we are dealing with is highly delicate already - 0.2 microns (I am wondering how microbvel even play any role on this sizes) and what needed - very gentle handling. As you may see here different people uses different technics to get to the same results - from Green Rouge on newspaper to holding ceramic stones with hand on the air.

With stretched leather over wooden base it works as a buffer for hand shakes and so handle edge pretty gentle - if not to press too much on the first place of course

Another important thing in my method is to heat up Green compound, it should be semymelted - this add as well additional softness to handle edge. Now I am pretty consistent in making any steel (except CPM S110V) whittling human hair without problem.

I recently had a chance to found that there is no difference between my Russian hairs and Chinese - only color.

Thanks, Vassili.
Click to expand...

You can't strech bull leather and the diamond spray is many times more efficient than chromium oxide, that probably why you can't get 110V to whittle hair. like I said send it to me I'll make it whittle hair for ya.
 
gnw1209 said:
I have been able to put a hair splitting edge on my;
benchmade rant
SAK camper
becker BK-2
spyderco tenacious
gerber LMFII

cant figure out how to post pics I can email them though
Click to expand...

You can send you picture to me and I'll host it on my website.

Thanks, Vassili.
 
knifenut1013 said:
You can't strech bull leather and the diamond spray is many times more efficient than chromium oxide, that probably why you can't get 110V to whittle hair. like I said send it to me I'll make it whittle hair for ya.
Click to expand...

I can understand you excitement that you do hair whittling, but everybody here doing this as well, including my humble person. Also everyone has his own method using this or that sharpening.

I will not send you my Shallot CPM S110V, if you want to make a point and sharpen it - I think they are still available, buy it yourself.

Can you post on video how you whittle free hanging hair so many times?

Thanks, Vassili.
 
i have had many knives .used to finish with 1925 horsehide stroup'.to show off' i cut the print off a thin magazine page and not cut the paper. dont scrape print slice it off.for utility i go to red india stone or blue diamond.a coarser edge grabs quicker.super razor edge just slides on large fish saw edge works good on fleash and tendons.
 
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