Should PayPal Gift Option be permitted for sales?

[Esav Benyamin]

If two people want to negotiate a deal over email or phone, have at it, but it doesn't belong here.

Excellent. Standard procedure here is "Post I'll take it in the thread and send me PM or email to confirm the deal."

Why post details online that can antagonize a buyer? Quote a total price that includes the item sold, cost of shipping, cost of doing business, and see who bites.

Then they get you on email and ask if you give them a break if (if they gift PayPal or use a USPS Money Order or have their cousin Harry stop by and pick it up )

KISS ... leave the details for private conversation.

 

[MerryMadMonk]

Gifting money is a gamble... in that it is highly unlikely the buyer can recover his money if the seller goes south. If the buyer doesn't understand that, he hasn't done his homework and he's likely to learn this lesson the hard way at some point. If he does understand the gamble he's taking and does it anyway, then comes up short... well, sha-zaam!

Sellers risk losing the ability to receive personal payments if caught using the gift option for goods and services. And if that happens... sha-zaam, again!

Why either buyers or sellers would knowingly expose themselves to these gambles/risks is anyone's guess, but it is ultimately between them and PayPal.

As for those who haven't bothered to read/comprehend PayPal's user agreement, that's their failing and is also between them and PayPal (as are all other PayPal-related issues).

I'm not sure BladeForums should take a position one way or the other, but that's for folks more knowledgeable than me to decide.

 

[cncpro11]

Prices include shipping within CONUS only but I ask that the normal 3.5% PayPal Rule is in effect. I can also accept other forms of payment but PayPal is preferred.

Perhaps things are getting a bit out of hand when sellers are stating that the 3.5% paypal rule is in effect?

 

[coaltrain]

Perhaps things are getting a bit out of hand when sellers are stating that the 3.5% paypal rule is in effect?

Most of the ads I see want 4% - I still haven't figured out where they get that figure when the fee is 2.9% + $0.30.

 

[richard thurman]

another way to make extra money out of the deal.

 

[Lone_Wolfe]

Now this is the sort of ad I won't have anything to do with. The purpose of listing a price and also having a fees added price is to give the buyer the option to save money by using a MO or pp gift.

..........
I only take PP need to add 4%...........

 

[Rhinoman]

I understand that this is a divisive issue. There's always going to be some who won't deal with others who do their business differently, and I understand that. I have certain dealbreakers myself. For example, if I've ever seen you refuse to ship to anyone at an APO/FPO unless it's fragile or illegal, I won't buy from you even though I'm Stateside. I think we all need to draw our own lines in the sand and do our sales in a way that we can live with and is honest and fair. I'm OK with someone passing on dealing with me for this or any other reason.

But using Paypal Gift for the purchase of goods isn't honest.

 

[Lone_Wolfe]

But using Paypal Gift for the purchase of goods isn't honest.

I'm referring to being honest with my buyer or trading partner. I've never ripped anyone, no matter if they've sent me cash, MO, PP gift or regular.

 

[Rhinoman]

I'm referring to being honest with my buyer or trading partner. I've never ripped anyone, no matter if they've sent me cash, MO, PP gift or regular.

I wouldn't suggest that you've ripped off anyone that has bought from you or traded with you. Still, it IS ripping off Paypal and it really isn't fair to the buyers that pay the fees when they sell like we all agreed to when we signed up with Paypal. Ultimately, those that follow the rules that we all agreed to are expected to pay when they sell AND when they buy with this "GIFT" shenanigans. I can't see that as fair.

If we all just did what we promised to do when we signed up for Paypal, things would be simple and honest and fair....

 

[LEGION 12]

Bump those of use that want to stop people using the gift option should really try and keep this thread going somehow.

 

[pbcg]

Question for the mod's.

The question and the practice of allowing a seller to ask the "Gift Option" be used in sales, or asking the buyer to pay the PP fee's, and offering different prices for different methods of payment if PP is a payment option, have all come up multiple times before.

Will there be a definitive decision made and announced? or if nothing changes, that's our answer?

Just curious so I thought I'd ask.

Thanks.

 

[Esav Benyamin]

If there is going to be a rule, it will be Spark's decision. That's why this is in Tech Support rather than FEEDBACK or Whine & Cheese. I don't believe he wants to make any more rules than he has to. I don't see why Bladeforums should police PayPal's Terms of Service.

Personally, I think we should be following their rules when we use their service. I have passed up purchases here because I didn't like the sellers terms. I am afraid a lot of people don't read these discussions and someday may get caught, and wonder what they did that was so wrong.

 

[pbcg]

Thanks Esav,

I understand what your saying. When it comes down to it it's not BFC's job to enforce PP's rules or TOS, I get that.

If people would simply follow the TOS of service they agreed to when they signed up for PP this would all be a non issue.

I've also passed on sales because I didn't like the terms of the sale, and really hate it when I read of someone getting taken or on the hook because they used gift and now have no recourse.

It's a tough one because as much as I agree it's not BFC's job to enforce PP's TOS, if you did make it a rule I can see only good coming from it. At least using the gift option part.

Thanks again for the reply. I really hope Spark gives it some serious consideration.

 

[markksr]

I wonder about the legality of defrauding PayPal of their percentage?

If it is, in fact, illegal (whether enforced or not), then wouldn't BFC be allowing criminal activity to openly take place by not putting an end to this practice?

There are several topics here which even the discussion of is forbidden for legal reasons yet fraud is openly advertised in the Exchange?

 

[LEGION 12]

I understand to enforce this would mean a lot of work for the Mods how about a sticky at the top of the for sale section letting everyone know this practice if frowned upon . Nobody would probably pay any attention but potential buyers could point it out to the sellers just a thought.

 

[RevDevil]

I understand to enforce this would mean a lot of work for the Mods how about a sticky at the top of the for sale section letting everyone know this practice if frowned upon . Nobody would probably pay any attention but potential buyers could point it out to the sellers just a thought.

The best way to hide important or otherwise useful information is by hiding it in the sticky'd threads. That is a guaranteed way to have the masses not read something, unless of course the words "free, giveaway, or drama" are the topics. I don't look at it as a means of enforcing paypal rules, I look at it as a means of protecting our newbish members from other folks that might not know better or have not so good intentions.

Paypal is a big boy and can take care of itself without us little ole mods fighting their fights. If someone continues to be unwilling to do their own math, that's their problem. I can't trust people that can't add simple single digit percentages. It ain't right.

 

[Mike G]

It is not our job to enforce Paypal's rules.

Bladeforums merely provides a venue, for a small membership fee, for members to buy sell, and trade knives and related items. We ask that a few rules be followed while conducting business on the forums. We cannot tell anyone what methods they should use to pay or receive payments. That is a private transaction between buyer and seller.

If someone asks you to use the gift option when using Paypal, simply say 'NO', and either make a counter offer, or move on.

 

[coaltrain]

In another forum I frequent which is similar in size and activity here, this same issue went around and around for at least 6 months. In the end, the administrator employed a rule against the "gift" or "personal" payment. Since this was initialed about a year ago, there have not been any problems or complaints. I'm not saying that the same should be applied here at BladeForums (although I am all for it) - just wanted to show that this same issue has been brought up elsewhere and the end result.

Cut/Paste of the rule addition there:

-------------------------------------------------------------------

To all our Marketplace sellers: please be advised that updates (shown in bold) have recently been made to our Marketplace listing regulations in order to keep our Marketplace safe and to comply with PayPal policies.

An asking price or price range must be posted (you may ask for a best offer in addition to your stated price, however) You may not solicit payment to be made via PayPal as a gift. We strongly discourage buyers from accepting offers that request gift payments.
Sellers typically ask for gift (also known as personal) payments in order to avoid being charged a transaction fee by PayPal. By sending gift payments, buyers surrender their right to PayPal Buyer Protection for that particular transaction and consequently limit the number of things that can be done in the event of a dispute.

All future Marketplace listings must be in compliance with this new rule to avoid risking deletion by the site staff.

 

[Ken44]

I wish the Gift option wasn't allowed here.

 

[markksr]

Vote early! Vote often!

BUMP...