SHTF Gun

I fear that you may well be right. It would be hard for any nation to hit us head on, any chance that an enemy would have would have to come from within. A few well planned attacks would really turn things to total turmoil. The first thing that would likely happen is that the government would declare martial law making the situation even worse. Look at the frantic situation created by just the two Washington snipers.

The liberals have been trying to give this country away, something no enemy has ever been able to take. We have got to slam the door on illegal migration and for sure shut down the damn sanctuary cities. For the life of me I can't figure out what they are thinking in allowing out right invasion, Err I mean Immigration.:mad:
 
udtjim said:
I fear that you may well be right. It would be hard for any nation to hit us head on, any chance that an enemy would have would have to come from within. A few well planned attacks would really turn things to total turmoil. The first thing that would likely happen is that the government would declare martial law making the situation even worse. Look at the frantic situation created by just the two Washington snipers.

The liberals have been trying to give this country away, something no enemy has ever been able to take. We have got to slam the door on illegal migration and for sure shut down the damn sanctuary cities. For the life of me I can't figure out what they are thinking in allowing out right invasion, Err I mean Immigration.:mad:
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I couldn't agree with you more. It is our unfortunate reality and November 2008 scares me.

As a side note, have you ever looked at MS-13 and what it has done and how much it has moved within the United States? If a known gang can move and be as influential as MS-13, imagine what we don't see that lies in wait.

Be safe.
 
Absolute nonsense. There is no credible internal threat to the US. None. Not even a terrorist threat of the worst kind actually threatens the existence of the US. Immigration, even illegal immigration, is a benefit to the US, where it has contributed both to the productivity and public coffers of the country, providing the labor the US economy demands. The best thing to combat illegal immigration is to simply allow immigration to happen openly, without the current stupid regulations that create a market for people to immigrate illegally. Let the free market, and not irrational nativist fears dictate who lives in the US.
 
Deleted to avoid de-rail. Suffice it to say that it is more than nonsense. IM or PM if further discussion is wanted...
 
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shecky said:
Absolute nonsense. There is no credible internal threat to the US. None. Not even a terrorist threat of the worst kind actually threatens the existence of the US. Immigration, even illegal immigration, is a benefit to the US, where it has contributed both to the productivity and public coffers of the country, providing the labor the US economy demands. The best thing to combat illegal immigration is to simply allow immigration to happen openly, without the current stupid regulations that create a market for people to immigrate illegally. Let the free market, and not irrational nativist fears dictate who lives in the US.
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Whatever - I'm not even going into it...:rolleyes:
 
and public coffers of the country
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You might want to look into that a little more closely. To the best of my knowledge illegals cost the system a lot more than they pay in taxes...not to mention the cost in violent crime and rape.

You may also want to look at the hospitals in So Cal that have gone under because of all the unpaid healthcare they have given illegals. I don't recall how many of them have bankrupted, but it is shocking.

I am not going to tell you what to think or believe....I simply would like to respectfully suggest you do some digging for the facts. Not the left-wing feel-good BS, and not the Neo-Con xenophobe crap....just the facts. Leave the politics out of it.
 
See No evil, Hear No evil and there will be no evil?? Liberal spin from the word go. In the end, this attitude will be our end. Hope I am wrong, But it won't cost me a thing to be ready. So I will stay ready. You do what suits you.

I do not intend to argue this point, we all have to follow our own ideas. Don't worry, be happy? Good luck.
 
This is a tough one.

If I'm doing armed resistance (I personally find a civil war more likely than an invasion at the moment) then I'd *prefer* the .308 with the bull barrel. And bipod. And so on.

But in more realistic terms, if i'm dealing with complete social breakdown I really like the mossberg. Only thing I like better is an M79 :D

Still, if it was hunting AND defense I'd go with either an M1A/M14 or a 44 lever gun. I want my military iron sights on either.

What, no mention of pistols? yah, well. This is SHTF, not walking in the park, right?
 
I hate derailing topics,. but this is one of those....

Okay, look. I've lived around immigrants all my life, legal and illegal. I've seen VERY few bad apples. Oh, they are there, but there's more hurt coming from the hands of the white trash meth groups out here than any gang.

Second point- anything gang related is hyped- by the media everyone is so quick to point out has an unrealistic liberal bias when it suits them. And by the gangs. And by the wannabes. It's a triple whammy. Truth isn't out there.

Third point- Immigration is one of the founding strengths of the nation. The PRIMARY reason, and nearly the only reason, there is much illegal immigration currently is that it's so freaking HARD to do it legally. (Oh, and the slave/sweatshop trade, but we won't get into those fine entrepenuers)

The country isn't being invaded, and Ms13 isn't a real threat, nor is any other gang. OH, they may very well be personal threats to individuals, but bringing down the country? Dude, all we have to do is take them seriously and wage war for a few weeks and it's over. No offense to our law enforcement system or fine citizenry, but we ain't doing that.

The biggest weakness I see in the US right now - the one that causes me to really consider my firearms choices- is this crazy "everyone but my group is a traitor" mentality. I come from a multi generational military democrat family, but there are people out here that would REMOVE my RIGHT to vote because I belong to the wrong party. And as extreme as they seem, they are only a few points on the scalecompared to a lot of major power groups in BOTH political parties.

So yeah, balanization or civil war, those are the ones I'm seeing as SHTF scenarios for the US. For my locale, flooding and earthquakes and fires,, oh joy.
 
I am the original poster and can not believe that this thread took off in all directions. I do believe most made very good points, even the ones slightly off-topic. Here is my 2 cents...

First and foremost, Beretta is a swell firearm, if you have never fired one, go rent one and give it a try, you might be surprised. I was a firearm instructor in the Suck, and the only M-9 malfunctions I have seen are the occasional cracked lock block (after thousands of rounds - the issue has since been fixed) and those caused by operator error, like limp wristing, etc. As you may have guessed, my SHTF gun, regardless of scenario, is a Beretta PX4-C .40S&W, because it is my CCW and will most likely be on me, it has never had a malfunction, and I am familiar with it.

This thread is very much like the "if you could chose one knife..." wherein the common answer is "the one on me..." So, although I agree that the scenario dictates the weapon(s), we do not have the luxury to plan to the exact date/time a SHTF incident will occur. It is nice to think the scenarios through, but when it happens you will most like be sitting in front of your computers in your under-roos :eek: :D. That said, I believe there are two scenarios: Fight or Flight.

Fight = shelter in place. In this scenario, home defense strategy and preparedness is paramount. A lot good ideas on home defense already mentioned here and in other threads in Practical Tactical. What hasn't been stressed so much is the preparedness side, i.e. food, water, generators, etc. Have a stock-pile...

Flight = bug out. In this scenario, you will not have time to open your gun safe and pick and choose what scenario is actual occurring. This is more a go bag that is ready to run (BOB). How prepared are you (we) to bug out? I would guess not that very. Just some thoughts on flight:

- Fitness level - need I say more.

- How far will you get in poor weather (flooding, snow, heavy rains, etc.) bugging out in your, let's say, Honda Civic. I believe every household should have a 4x4 partially loaded for a SHTF situation.

- Another angle, do you have important paperwork (trust, wills, medical info, insurance, cash, coins, ect.) in your BOB?

- Where do you go? Do you have a plan. I am seeking some 'wilderness' land in a very rural area.

I just realized I am going off track in my own thread... Sorry.

Again. My SHTF gun is a Beretta PX4-C .40S&W. Additionally and ideally, you should have a M-9 (9mm, common round and current military side arm), a 5.56mm or 7.62mm (long range and again, common military round), and a .22lr (light weight for food). Other considerations, a 12 gauge (common military and law enforcement round) and a carbine in the same caliber as your sidearm, which can accept the same magazines (save space, same ammo and magazines).

Love this thread, as mental preparedness is half the battle...:thumbup:
 
Let's try to minimize the political arguments, and keep them subservient to the topic at hand. Politics may enter into our plans, but I don;t want to see a supermod move this thread to the political forum okay?
 
maxkimber said:
I am the original poster and can not believe that this thread took off in all directions. I do believe most made very good points, even the ones slightly off-topic. Here is my 2 cents...

First and foremost, Beretta is a swell firearm, if you have never fired one, go rent one and give it a try, you might be surprised. I was a firearm instructor in the Suck, and the only M-9 malfunctions I have seen are the occasional cracked lock block (after thousands of rounds - the issue has since been fixed) and those caused by operator error, like limp wristing, etc. As you may have guessed, my SHTF gun, regardless of scenario, is a Beretta PX4-C .40S&W, because it is my CCW and will most likely be on me, it has never had a malfunction, and I am familiar with it.

This thread is very much like the "if you could chose one knife..." wherein the common answer is "the one on me..." So, although I agree that the scenario dictates the weapon(s), we do not have the luxury to plan to the exact date/time a SHTF incident will occur. It is nice to think the scenarios through, but when it happens you will most like be sitting in front of your computers in your under-roos :eek: :D. That said, I believe there are two scenarios: Fight or Flight.

Fight = shelter in place. In this scenario, home defense strategy and preparedness is paramount. A lot good ideas on home defense already mentioned here and in other threads in Practical Tactical. What hasn't been stressed so much is the preparedness side, i.e. food, water, generators, etc. Have a stock-pile...

Flight = bug out. In this scenario, you will not have time to open your gun safe and pick and choose what scenario is actual occurring. This is more a go bag that is ready to run (BOB). How prepared are you (we) to bug out? I would guess not that very. Just some thoughts on flight:

- Fitness level - need I say more.

- How far will you get in poor weather (flooding, snow, heavy rains, etc.) bugging out in your, let's say, Honda Civic. I believe every household should have a 4x4 partially loaded for a SHTF situation.

- Another angle, do you have important paperwork (trust, wills, medical info, insurance, cash, coins, ect.) in your BOB?

- Where do you go? Do you have a plan. I am seeking some 'wilderness' land in a very rural area.

I just realized I am going off track in my own thread... Sorry.

Again. My SHTF gun is a Beretta PX4-C .40S&W. Additionally and ideally, you should have a M-9 (9mm, common round and current military side arm), a 5.56mm or 7.62mm (long range and again, common military round), and a .22lr (light weight for food). Other considerations, a 12 gauge (common military and law enforcement round) and a carbine in the same caliber as your sidearm, which can accept the same magazines (save space, same ammo and magazines).

Love this thread, as mental preparedness is half the battle...:thumbup:
Click to expand...

I'm glad to see another thinker from Ohio!

I've looked at the Beretta PX-4 in 9mm but didn't buy it (yet).

I don't get caught up in the 9mm vs. .40 vs. .45 arguement. Shot placement is the key and the ability to put fast, accurate, follow-up shots on target.

I usually have some flavor of Glock within reach or very close but if it's time to fight I want a rifle.

A handgun is a defensive weapon and a rifle is an offensive weapon. A handgun should always be part of the plan - for when the primary goes down and an IAD isn't enough or fixing isn't the option. Malfunction inside 50 yards, transition to handgun.
 
maxkimber said:
(post shorted only for brevity) Again. My SHTF gun is a Beretta PX4-C .40S&W. Additionally and ideally, you should have a M-9 (9mm, common round and current military side arm), a 5.56mm or 7.62mm (long range and again, common military round), and a .22lr (light weight for food). Other considerations, a 12 gauge (common military and law enforcement round) and a carbine in the same caliber as your sidearm, which can accept the same magazines (save space, same ammo and magazines).

Love this thread, as mental preparedness is half the battle...:thumbup:
Click to expand...

Good post maxkimber. Whatever folks pick, hopefully it fits into all the possible scenarios.

Getting back to the Beretta thread, one outstanding post made a great post. The fellow dumped his Glocks and picked up Beretta Pistols and Beretta Storm Carbines all in the same caliber and taking the same mag.

The lesson being trying to simplify training and logistics. Carbines are better than pistols...a fellow in this thread has the same idea with different equipment.

(note, there is an after market carbine upper available for Glocks, so you don't have to dump them).

Another thought is Remingtons PUmp Rifle that matches all the operations of their 870 shotgun...again simplifying training. IMO Pump rifles are far better than lever rifles, if those are my only options.

Yet another thought is duplication. In the odd event that you get into a Katrina (you are on your own for unknown time) having multiples of the same system for parts and logistics. Lots of gun nuts (me too) want lots of different guns to have but make sure you consider your duplication and logistics issues.
 
udtjim said:
Other than a storm of fantastic proportion, that is what I see as a very possible scenario.

Chances are if we are ever attacked, it most likely will be a modified Trojan horse situation where combatants already here through illegal entry over several decades could be the culprit. Impossible?? I hope so.

In any event, it's better to have a plan that you will never need than no plan at all. First and foremost, never think that it can't happen here. History is a notorious repeater.
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This is dead on. Complacency is deadly. I can't tell you how many times I've worked at large companies that were industry leaders, then fell off the cliff. People that worked there a long time were always stunned, and wouldn't believe me when I'd point out the errors leading up to the fall. The reply from them was always the same.

That can't happen here!
Why not?
Because we're <company name>.

Please. It can and will happen here unless we remain vigilant. You can insert the US into the company name also...

As for guns, racking the slide on a shotgun will probably cause a couple of petty burglars in my house to mess themselves. If they are hardened criminals, I've just given away my location. I would much rather take them by surprise with a well placed. round. There is NO SUCH THING as a warning shot. If the situation is serious enough to warrant the use of a firearm, then use it. Otherwise, don't even think about using it.

For home, I prefer the 12 gauge, or a GP100/M1911 depending on what the situation warrants. I'm thinking of stopping 1 or 2 bad guys, and not concerned about stealth. I would expect to be visited by the police shortly after all was said and done.

The home layout of most homes being built these days aren't very good for security purposes. The master bedroom on the 2d floor is usually far away from all the others. So now you have to shoot towards your kids, or move down the hallway exposed to get to them first. Not good. A good dog or two will go a long ways towards security, much better than alarms, IMO.

If my entire family is on the move, then long arms and stealth would be more appropriate. As others have pointed out, blending in and being mobile are important. Having a quiet firearm would be very important also. Knowing how to make yours quieter would be good knowledge to have, although I'm not suggesting breaking the law. Knowledge is always good, even if you don't need to put it to use.
 
zenheretic said:
Getting back to the Beretta thread, one outstanding post made a great post. The fellow dumped his Glocks and picked up Beretta Pistols and Beretta Storm Carbines all in the same caliber and taking the same mag.

The lesson being trying to simplify training and logistics. Carbines are better than pistols...a fellow in this thread has the same idea with different equipment.

(note, there is an after market carbine upper available for Glocks, so you don't have to dump them).
Click to expand...

KelTec makes the Sub2000 carbine that is compatable with multiple pistols/caliber.

I have had a Sub200 that feeds from Glock 17 mags for quite awhile and run it pretty hard to see if/when it would fail. The only issue I've had with it was taking it out once from storage and not lubing it before I put it away or before I shot it:

It had been put away dirty as well - 300+ rounds in a short time (and it hadn't been cleaned prior to that, just lubed). Somewhere in about the 4th extended mag it seemed that the bolt was hanging up and trigger got difficult - it wasn't fully going into battery because it was dry/dirty. I unloaded it, folded it in half and lubed it thoroughly, put it back into operation and it ran again for over 300 rounds with absolutely no hang ups.

I've honestly put well over 1000 rounds through the Sub2000 with no cleaning and no real hang ups.

The fold in half option and commonality with your pistol magazines makes it an awesome little tool. Accuracy is improved, it is light, and easy to make fast follow up shots. Mozambiques from 25 yards are no problem whatsoever.

Whatever you choose, train with it and know it's benefits and limitations. Train, train, train.
 
zenheretic said:
Good post maxkimber.

Getting back to the Beretta thread, one outstanding post made a great post. The fellow dumped his Glocks and picked up Beretta Pistols and Beretta Storm Carbines all in the same caliber and taking the same mag.
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Thanks...;)

I plan to get the Beretta CX4 in .40S&W to compliment my PX4, but I want to get a .45ACP first, most likely a Kimber or Beretta Special Duty (when they come out). I have read a lot about the CX4's and viewed many 'customized' ones - they are sweet and accurate. I really like the dual purpose magazine.
 
Colt Government Model Series 70 .45 acp, Ruger Mini-30 in 7.62 X 39, Remington Model 70 in .30-06; close, medium and long ranges, and I have plenty of ammo!
 
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