Skookum Bush Tool

[Esav Benyamin]

Apart from that, looks like a sound design to me. I think the buttplate serves no purpose, a simple protruding tang would probably be better.

From Ragweed Forge: A combination of the 3 7/8" puukko and the 7" leuku in a double sheath.

These knives have solid, canted buttplates. I've read that the Sami drive the leuku into the base of the skull to kill a reindeer, by striking the butt by hand.

 

[mrostov]

Different cultures have different ways of going about things, that doesn't make it the best to use. The Sami actually practice a version of agriculture - herding.

I also have some puukko knives, including a neck knife which I made and use.

Have you noticed something common with the real puukko design that almost all of these 'bushcraft' knives don't have? Look at the handle. While most of these 'bushcraft' knives, like the Mears design, have a conventional, western style handle with no handguard, these puukko knives have a tell tell flare, a bulb, at the back of the handle and you tend to hold it far differently, especially under slippery conditions.

I've also seen a lot of Scandinavian knives with handguards and fingerguards. Not putting in a handguard or fingerguard greatly simplifies the construction of a knife, especially if you have limited tooling, hence one of the reasons for the way some traditional designs evolved. So that doesn't make it the best just because some use it out of habit. The puukko's greatest advantage is that it is very convenient to carry.

 

[Esav Benyamin]

Many of those 'bushcraft' practitioners in their crowded, little European countries, by an large, don't practice really living off the land. They go out and have themselves a smoke filled arts and crafts session. Some are quite good at it, but lets call it what it is.

That's what I'm trying to tell you. You have one meaning for the technical term "bushcraft", and they have another. They are using the term among themselves to refer to what they do, not what you refer to.

They do live in small countries with limited outdoor challenges or experience for many of them. Their bushcraft is an exercise in getting outdoors, away from supermarket food and television entertainment. It isn't wilderness survival 101 or hunting in the winter in the mountains.

 

[Esav Benyamin]

Have you noticed something common with the real puukko design that almost all of these 'bushcraft' knives don't have? Look at the handle. While most of these 'bushcraft' knives, like the Mears design, have a conventional, western style handle with no handguard, these puukko knives have a tell tell flare, a bulb, at the back of the handle and you tend to hold it far differently, especially under slippery conditions.

You are overinterpreting. One style of puukko has a flare, the Sami knives tend to be broader at the butt, but the others, including the most traditional designs, have a barrel shape similar to the simple Mora.

 

[mrostov]

You are overinterpreting. One style of puukko has a flare, the Sami knives tend to be broader at the butt, but the others, including the most traditional designs, have a barrel shape similar to the simple Mora.

I know what they look like, and I'm not impressed with them. If I have to use one, the Sami would be the only one I'd bother with. The Scandi blades do have great steel in them, usually.

Look at it this way, our early frontier had a lot of Scandinavians arrive here. Yet, the puukko knife style kind of vanished when it hit the US frontier.

 

[Esav Benyamin]

Look at it this way -- how many of those Scandinavians were blacksmiths out west, and how many were farmers in the east and midwest?

 

[mrostov]

Look at it this way -- how many of those Scandinavians were blacksmiths out west, and how many were farmers in the east and midwest?

They were everywhere. The logging industry in California was started by Scandinavians. Who do you think started cutting down the several thousand year old Sequoia trees just to make boards? Many of the Scandi farmer types in the Midwest actually arrived rather late in the 19th Century.

 

[Jim Craig]

Most common knives for hunting in the arctic where I live are wooden & barrel shaped handled puukkos or Grohmann #1s.
There are still many people in Scandinavia living on the land. I doubt they all use a Thor bowie. Or for that matter, any bowie. Most Scandi knives have >4" blades.

 

[Jim Craig]

They were everywhere. The logging industry in California was started by Scandinavians. Who do you think started cutting down the several thousand year old Sequoia trees just to make boards? .

Obviously this is not true. Busse knives were not created until late in the 20th century, and are the only knives capable of cutting down sequoias.

 

[Jim Craig]

The Scandi blades do have great steel in them, usually.

?
Ummm, wow.

 

[mrostov]

I guess the guru part is kind of true to some point... That said it may also be interpreted as an over reaction to "fancy knives amateurs" calling mora type knives junk while those are perfectly capable.

But despite that and sticking to the subject of the guard

You may notice that:
* most period skinners don't have a guard
* Nessmuck (another "survival/outdoor" guru by the way)'s knives didn't have any guard at all
* many other period designs didn't have a guard
* most people I know used to slash chicken with a small office knife that doesn't need a guard
* traditionnal outdoor knives from various countries don't have a guard (puuko, saami knives, most knives seen in african tribes...)
* One may also not that guard does exist on scandinavian knives,... but it only appears on "children knives"

As for functionnality, I guess the only role where guard is mandatory is for stabbing, which would be used for "combat" (military) designs and finishing wounded game, but finishing large game is IMO too risky in a genuine survival situation, with or without a guard: most hunter only doo it with a herd of train dogs and that's still pretty hazardous.

Actually I've often wondered about the historical accurracy of many "period designs" and their uses. As an example, even if it is pretty well established that "bowie knife" type was popular among confederate soldier, wasn't it carried as fighting knife rather than an utility knife (many are quoted having a D guard which does really get in the way...), guess that would be a subject for the Bernard Levine forum.

First of all, I like Mora blades, the steel is great. However the handles generally suck. The only well designed Mora handle is the 'clipper' but it only has a 1/3 tang.

Nessmuk wasn't on the wild American frontier. He roamed the forests of the US northeast. That 'Nessmuk knife' looks exactly like some cheap, Green River style period skinner that had the blade reshaped after someone broke the tip off. He probably got it for cheap, or free, and reground the tip.

Green River style skinning knives were popular because they had a good blade design and they were cheap. The mountain men tended to carry several of them in their gear, often as cheap trade goods. Leaving the guard off of a knife makes it less expensive and easier to mass produce.

Also note that the blade design on the Nessmuk and Green River knives is actually practical for field work with big game, lots more so than the 'Ray Mears' design. I have a Nessmuk influenced knife I often like to use for fieldwork, it's called a 'Buck 103'.

BTW, you're quite wrong on the 'children's knife' comment. Take a closer look at what some of those Scandi companies are making.

As for the chicken, I use the oil covered chicken as an example since most people are urban city folk who aren't likely to go blow away bambi anytime soon.

 

[mrostov]

Most common knives for hunting in the arctic where I live are wooden & barrel shaped handled puukkos or Grohmann #1s.
There are still many people in Scandinavia living on the land. I doubt they all use a Thor bowie. Or for that matter, any bowie. Most Scandi knives have >4" blades.

Ever heard of the 'Leuku'? It's a common traditional knife in use in Scandinavia. It has a 8" - 9" blade. It's often used in conjunction with a smaller puukko with it's 3" to 4" blade. They make a good combo, bladewise. Just think of the Leuku as a bowie knife without a handguard, though some do have a fingerguard.

The Grohmann is a good design. Barrel handles on puukko knives suck, but they are cheap and easy to carry, but, most of all, they are cheap.

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[Jim Craig]

What kind of large game are you talking about that is so bloody? Do you hunt with Quentin Tarantino?
Didn't Nessmuk design his knife?

 

[Jim Craig]

Ever heard of the 'Leuku'? It's a common traditional knife in use in Scandinavia. It has a 8" - 9" blade. It's often used in conjunction with a smaller puukko with it's 3" to 4" blade. They make a good combo, bladewise. Just think of the Leuku as a bowie knife without a handguard, though some do have a fingerguard.

The Grohmann is a good design. Barrel handles on puukko knives suck, but they are cheap and easy to carry, but, most of all, they are cheap.

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I think I mentioned the Leuku a few posts back. I said MOST Scandi knives are smaller. I have a combo Leuku/Puukko set, and use it on every trip or outing. No guards, not cuts. Just excellent knives.
The barrel shaped puukkos don't suck if you know what you're doing. They are comfortable to use, efficient, sharp, reliable. That's a lot for $15.

 

[mrostov]

What kind of large game are you talking about that is so bloody? Do you hunt with Quentin Tarantino?
Didn't Nessmuk design his knife?

No, won't be skinning any ninjas soon (I hope).

What's I'm talking about isn't usually that bloody as you seem to have gotten the impression I'm talking about, but you do get your hands wet with blood, more sometimes than others (deer, elk, javelina, etc). To skin an animal you can do much of it with bare hands, but why do that when you have a knife?

The point I'm making is that for real living in the bush, which seems to be the common thread many here seem to talk about, a fingerguard on a knife is much better than without. There's a reason they were invented, a long, long time ago.

That 'Skookum' tool, I actually like most of it, far better than the Ray Mears woodlore. It has a nice blade shape and like much of it. If it had a fingerguard it would be a much better knife, IMHO.

 

[mrostov]

I think I mentioned the Leuku a few posts back. I said MOST Scandi knives are smaller. I have a combo Leuku/Puukko set, and use it on every trip or outing. No guards, not cuts. Just excellent knives.
The barrel shaped puukkos don't suck if you know what you're doing. They are comfortable to use, efficient, sharp, reliable. That's a lot for $15.

Most knives here are not 9" bowies, and most are probably 3" - 3-3/4" folders.

I can use one too without slicing myself up, but IMHO there are better handle styles. That is simply my point.

 

[wn2142]

mrostov, I agree with most of what you've written. Given the intended use of the Skookum, and besides a Buck 103, what would you submit as the ideal alternative or evolved design?

 

[mrostov]

mrostov, I agree with most of what you've written. Given the intended use of the Skookum, and besides a Buck 103, what would you submit as the ideal alternative or evolved design?

That's one hell of a question, and one that I've been trying to answer for a long time, and I have a mountain of knives as a result. I was raised in some wild areas and I'm maybe a tad opinionated sometimes when it comes to some of this stuff. IMHO, no one has come up with the perfect knife yet, and probably never will.

That Skookum isn't bad, in it's concept and execution, but I think it needs a fingerguard.

The Buck 103 is a great tool for many tasks, like cutting up an animal, etc. I carry it in a dual knife case with a Buck 105. The two compliment themselves quite well. However, the older Bucks suffer from brittle blades. The newer Bucks don't stay sharp as along, IMHO, but they don't break as easily. It's a good set to toss into your pack, especially of you are planning on having some fun with an elk.

Western made a great survival knife in the 80's. It had, IIRC, a 6" blade and they are a tad rare nowadays. It has a lot of good features and it was made out of 0170-6C just like the Beckers.

Myself, if I'm going to intentionally be out in the boonies I seldom if ever bring just one tool nowadays. Tried the One-Knife thing a long time ago, from 9" bowies and Lile copies on down. I have a few Khukuris (kukris), most of them various HI models.

Really, if I have only one knife on me, it'll be a Leatherman Charge.

My favorite bush tool is either my Hudson Bay style Norlund Voyageur hatchet (12" handle, 3" bit) or a good machete, like the 12" Ontario backed up by a Leatherman Wave multitool and a really sharp 4" to 5" sheath knife or a good 3-3/4" lockblade folder. For the knife I prefer a thinner blade because it's first duty is to cut extremely well, and some blades are just too thick or have too steep of a grind - the SRK falling into that later category.

On more than one occasion I've just had the hatchet, my Mule folder, and my Leatherman. My Kabar Mule replaced my venerable Buck 110 - the Mule is a very tough folding knife. The hatchet winds up being the main field blade taking most of the abuse.

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[wn2142]

This would be my alternative, but with a scandi grind (they favor convex):

http://www.barkriverknifetool.com/bushcraft/mininorthstar/index.html

 

[mrostov]

Convex is great if done properly. Bark River has a good rep. The advantage that a fixed blade has is that it's easier to clean.

IMHO, if you're going to the trouble of carrying a fixed blade utility knife, get something in 4" to 5". If you are looking for a good field utility knife, I like this one.

http://www.marblesoutdoors.com/cutlery/plainsman.html