Snobbery & does "Handmade" belong

I have a feeling that everyone on this thread (which no doubt has some
very well thought out and well written posts) more-or-less says the same
things phrased in different (and sometimes quite original) ways.

Should'nt the issue be summed up by putting it to some kind of vote?


All the best,
David Darom (ddd)
 
I have a feeling that everyone on this thread (which no doubt has some
very well thought out and well written posts) more-or-less says the same
things phrased in different (and sometimes quite original) ways.

Should'nt the issue be summed up by putting it to some kind of vote?


All the best,
David Darom (ddd)



yes triple D make us a poll!:thumbup:
 
Keith, how about it?
It is your Thread and you already have two votes for a poll.... :)

All the best,
David Darom (ddd)
 
i believe the poster referred to in the OP is myself. i began collecting knives seriously about 2 years ago when i discovered BF. initially i bought used examples of production knives and i learned something each time largely by researching every knife on these forums. as my knowledge grew, my choices became demanding of ever higher quality or collectability, leading to my present, seemingly insatiable desire, for ever more custom knives. i have about 25 at present (4 in the mail not counted), price range $100 - $2400.
this sub forum is a fine place to see examples of upper end work and to follow esoteric philosophical discussions between serious collectors of custom knives.
what i would like to see is : 1) a more indepth critique of knives posted, to help enable others to learn how to look at a custom knife, and how to evaluate it's details, flow, maker, etc. all the things that lead to the knife's overall value and collectability.
without the help of others, the learning curve is longer and more costly.
education and mentoring will help expand the ranks of custom collectors which is necessary to support the makers and thereby our own habit.
in general, the more you know, the more interested you are.
and 2) more examples of less expensive custom knives, again with knowledgeable critique on it's good points and short comings and again with a view towards educating the newcomer in knife evaluation.
reading this sub forum for the last year leads me to think that there is a distain of lower end customs by some collectors and that posts of such are of no interest. hence my comment of a tendancy towards "snobbery" for lack of another succinct phrase. i think this is good, somebody has to be holding up the upper end, but could be balanced by more displayed interest in more plebeian knives.
my 3 yr. old just awoke, so my ramble is over. at least we all agree, every kid is a "custom" kid.
roland
 
I have a feeling that everyone on this thread (which no doubt has some
very well thought out and well written posts) more-or-less says the same
things phrased in different (and sometimes quite original) ways.

Should'nt the issue be summed up by putting it to some kind of vote?

I would be happy to start a poll. The questions will be formulated and the poll posted later today.


All the best,
David Darom (ddd)

i believe the poster referred to in the OP is myself.

Hi, Roland. Yes, it was your post that lead me to start this thread. I have seen the same thing done (a thread about a handmade knife moved to another sub-forum), and seen the same comment (the custom knife forum suffers from a bit of snobbery) in the past. I felt it was something worth bringing up to the rest of the denizens of the custom forum.
 
Sorry about that, Roland and Keith.... It was 84 posts ago
and I forgot. Maybe it was the fact that there was no direct
reference the original link.

So there is no chance (no need?) for a poll?

Actually maybe there is no need as we really can all live together
with our great interest in... ? I am still confused... :)

All the best,
David Darom (ddd)
 
Keith,

I thought I was clear on my position when it comes to "factory setting" knives. Perhaps they are better suited to other forums. There are "custom" and "handmade" knives though that fit in fine in this forum, although some interpretation to those terms may be used.

I'm not sure what threads you have an issue with being moved, but leave it in the hands of the moderators. If they do seem to make a mistake in moving a thread I'm sure they'd be open to some feedabck.

I understand you're point, Jose. My only thought on the matter is this, if we are only going to discuss the handmade knives that are considered by most people to be customs, then why not just call this forum Custom Knives. We don't need the Handmade part. That way, there would be no confusion for those that think this is the right forum to post threads about factory handmade knives.

This isn't a big problem, and it certainly isn't one to lose sleep over. It is just a topic that I felt would be good to post to see what people's opinions are on the subject. It turns out that I got more opinions on what constitutes a custom/handmade knife.
 
Just a curious question , how many " factory handmade " places/makers/what-have-you are there ?

Randall
William Henry
???

Ruana, and if Cooper is still around. Dozier might even fit into that category. I'm not sure that W/H or Chris reeves would fit that description. They do have a lot of hand finishing done to their knives, but they aren't really handmade.
 
When it comes to snobbery, it does not apply to a subforum, but to individuals. A snob, is

1. One who overtly imitates, obsequiously admires, and offensively seeks to associate only with those one regards as one's superiors and who tends to rebuff or ignore altogether those one regards as one's inferiors: "A snob is someone who judges all things, from shoes and dinner parties to love and beauty, according to their social rating" (Tom Wolfe).


2. One who affects an offensive air of self-satisfied superiority in matters of taste or intellect.

I believe that both behaviours are occasionally seen in this subforum. Some people exhibit it all the time. Two examples are the phrase "brass has no class" or "giraffe bone is just a poor substitution for more expensive materials." We all know that some people like brass, and some giraffe bone is just to wild too be remotely like anything else.

IMHO, the recent pillorying of RL for posting a picture of a strider is an excellent example of mass snobery interacting to create a cesspool.

There has always been a little bit of snobbery in the hand forged vs. stock removal debate with the stock removal guys receiving the short end.

The pure fact that people need to have this forum validate their purchases fits right into "A snob is someone who judges all things, from shoes and dinner parties to love and beauty, according to their social rating". What I love is when the person posts how much this knife is the be all and end all of their collector's search, then everyone chimes in agreement like a Greek chorus, but the blade's up for sale less than two months later. Did they buy the knife because it truly is the gem of their collection, or just for the approval of the forum cliche?
 
Ruana, and if Cooper is still around. Dozier might even fit into that category. I'm not sure that W/H or Chris reeves would fit that description. They do have a lot of hand finishing done to their knives, but they aren't really handmade.

Add to the list:

Amherst Knives

Anza Knives

Boye Knives

What about Busse knives, for sure the Custom Shop

Mission Knives(pretty much all hand operations except for lasering the titanium)

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
I believe that both behaviours are occasionally seen in this subforum. Some people exhibit it all the time. Two examples are the phrase "brass has no class" or "giraffe bone is just a poor substitution for more expensive materials." We all know that some people like brass, and some giraffe bone is just to wild too be remotely like anything else.

IMHO, the recent pillorying of RL for posting a picture of a strider is an excellent example of mass snobery interacting to create a cesspool.

There has always been a little bit of snobbery in the hand forged vs. stock removal debate with the stock removal guys receiving the short end.

The pure fact that people need to have this forum validate their purchases fits right into "A snob is someone who judges all things, from shoes and dinner parties to love and beauty, according to their social rating". What I love is when the person posts how much this knife is the be all and end all of their collector's search, then everyone chimes in agreement like a Greek chorus, but the blade's up for sale less than two months later. Did they buy the knife because it truly is the gem of their collection, or just for the approval of the forum cliche?

I've cut some of the content out of this post for brevity. I agree and feel that there is a lot of gritty truth in this. Good post, Mr. Shoe.
 
I've cut some of the content out of this post for brevity. I agree and feel that there is a lot of gritty truth in this. Good post, Mr. Shoe.

Sure, lotta slamming on the stock removal crowd....the fact that LOWLY stock removal knives from such wannabes as S.R. Johnson, R.W. Loveless, H.H. Frank, and Buster Warenski, to name a few of these lower life forms, bring the top monies in the knife game PROVES the snobbery that exists on BladeForums.....those names are ONLY mentioned weekly....oh, the humanity!....gritty truth indeed....we have been schooled gentlemen....thank you BS and thank you Lorien....you are a sage poet.:thumbup:

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
The exceptions that can be ticked off on one or two hands do not belay the consensus that "stock removal" knives are looked down on when compared to forged knives. For a glaring example, no one must look any further than the ABS and their test criteria. No matter how well turned out, how well fit and finished, no stock removal knife by Bob Loveless would qualify for the journeman smith test. So, Bob Loveless, one of- and perhaps THE- most preiminent knife makers of the 20th century could not pass even the journeyman test. Interesting. The exceptions prove the rule.
 
The exceptions that can be ticked off on one or two hands do not belay the consensus that "stock removal" knives are looked down on when compared to forged knives. For a glaring example, no one must look any further than the ABS and their test criteria. No matter how well turned out, how well fit and finished, no stock removal knife by Bob Loveless would qualify for the journeman smith test. So, Bob Loveless, one of- and perhaps THE- most preiminent knife makers of the 20th century could not pass even the journeyman test. Interesting. The exceptions prove the rule.

I JUST spoke with a EXTREMELY well regarded ABS MS the other day about how superior the CPM stainless steels are for knife blades. This was his opinion....one that I share, specifically CPM 154CM. Just a butt kicking knife blade material(and I like forged blades a lot.)

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
Sorry for being thick, but were you being sarcastic, Steven?
Assuming that your answer is yes, let me just say that the points that I found interesting in Mr. Shoe's post were not the ones made regarding the old stock removal vs. forged knives thing.
 
Sorry for being thick, but were you being sarcastic, Steven?
Assuming that your answer is yes, let me just say that the points that I found interesting in Mr. Shoe's post were not the ones made regarding the old stock removal vs. forged knives thing.

Being very sarcastic, Lorien.

What did you find interesting about Brownstain's post?:eek:

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
The exceptions that can be ticked off on one or two hands do not belay the consensus that "stock removal" knives are looked down on when compared to forged knives. For a glaring example, no one must look any further than the ABS and their test criteria. No matter how well turned out, how well fit and finished, no stock removal knife by Bob Loveless would qualify for the journeman smith test. So, Bob Loveless, one of- and perhaps THE- most preiminent knife makers of the 20th century could not pass even the journeyman test. Interesting. The exceptions prove the rule.

The answer is in their name. It is the American Bladesmith Society. Not knife society. People of a like mind and interest set up a society. It isn't a slight to stock removal as far as I can tell.
 
Add to the list:

Amherst Knives

Anza Knives

Boye Knives

What about Busse knives, for sure the Custom Shop

Mission Knives(pretty much all hand operations except for lasering the titanium)

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson

dont forget Hinderer. or is he production now?
 
dont forget Hinderer. or is he production now?

I would say Rick is still a handmade operation like most makers......otherwise, we get into Onion with the Mid-Tech, or R.J. Martin with his heavy use of CNC, and numerous other examples.......but Hinderer MAY fall into the definition as well....good question, not likely to be answered any time soon.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
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