I got das infraction for this:
...... and I do not believe there were any repercussions for this:
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Spark crossed a line
- Thread starter dizos
- Start date
I got das infraction for this:
...... and I do not believe there were any repercussions for this:
- Joined
- Oct 2, 1998
- Messages
- 15,223
Well, then you are wrong again.
You got the infraction for continuing to troll through the thread. The post you quoted was also issued an infraction for insults, hence the red square at the bottom right of it.
You've chosen not to add anything constructive to this thread, or the last one. You can either contribute, or stay silent, but I'm not going to take potshots from someone who's trolling and running.
Spark, I am not running anywhere, but it was you that was referenced in the genesis of this thread, not Mick Strider. I think posts that elucidate your actions or motives are relevant here, however brief (not to be confused with trolling).
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- Oct 2, 1998
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- 15,223
True enough, it was me that was referenced. The problem with that, however, is that you cannot say "I stepped over the line" without somehow excusing Mick Strider for his behavior. So, dakotared, I'll ask you the same question I've asked the others:
When is it ok to lie about yourself? When is it ok to lie about your military career? At what point do you say "this is wrong" and say so? How, exactly, is it "crossing the line" to collect all the inconsistancies, lies, fabrications, etc, in one place and discuss them, and somehow "right" to lie about them in the first place? For that matter, would you care to address any of the facts presented, or rebut any of the points I've made? Or are you just going to say this is a witch hunt?
FYI, I did look up your file today at the shop. Regardless of this disagreement, I sincerely thank you for the business you've provided 1SKS over the years and hope that the products you've gotten meet your satisfaction. Contrary to what you said, you've purchased some very expensive items not just "small gifts" for the family. If you feel you must vote with your wallet, I cannot fault you for that. Hopefully you'll understand that I'm making my own moral stand on this.
When is it ok to lie about yourself? When is it ok to lie about your military career? At what point do you say "this is wrong" and say so? How, exactly, is it "crossing the line" to collect all the inconsistancies, lies, fabrications, etc, in one place and discuss them, and somehow "right" to lie about them in the first place? For that matter, would you care to address any of the facts presented, or rebut any of the points I've made? Or are you just going to say this is a witch hunt?
FYI, I did look up your file today at the shop. Regardless of this disagreement, I sincerely thank you for the business you've provided 1SKS over the years and hope that the products you've gotten meet your satisfaction. Contrary to what you said, you've purchased some very expensive items not just "small gifts" for the family. If you feel you must vote with your wallet, I cannot fault you for that. Hopefully you'll understand that I'm making my own moral stand on this.
Spark, no question, you folks at 1SKS have always done a great job for me, without exception. Most of the more expensive items have been for my own collection. That is why this thread has touched such a nerve with me.
All of us on this thread probably share 99.9% common views on most of the important things in life like the ability to own firearms and knives, personal freedom as well as Life, Liberty and the pursuit of happiness for everyone. Yet this rather angry conflict persists form both sides of the issue.
This is why I just do not see the point of this EXTENDED dialog regarding Mick Strider. Nearly all concede that they make great knives, and I believe that is the relevant point. Is he a flawed man who has made mistakes in his past and will probably continue to make mistakes in his future, Yes. But who among us does not fit that description.
That is about all I wanted to say. Yall take care and keep your blades sharp, as well as your wit ...
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- Oct 2, 1998
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- 15,223
DakotaRed -
All I can speak for is my own motivations. I busted my ass for 3 years in the Army, doing what I felt was my duty as a citizen. I'll be the first one to tell you I wasn't a posterboy when I was in, I got in trouble and tried to get away with things like every lower enlisted does. At the same time, I can look back on my service with pride, because I made the commitment and lived up to what was expected of me. While on jump status, I incurred my own injuries including fractured vertebrae, "traumatic spondololysis" (sp?), sprained ankles, 2 concussions, heat injuries, cuts, scrapes and bruises, the usual fare for any grunt. Every time I got injured, I did everything in my power to get back to continue the mission, return to my squad, and live up to my end. I did my job, and then some.
So, when someone makes half assed excuses for their failures, and tries to steal the valor of those who died in combat, and makes themselves up to be something they aren't, that pisses me off as a veteran. Nobody ever lies about being a clerk or a cook or a mechanic; they are always a SEAL or in Special Forces, or CCT / PJ, or Force Recon, or Special Operations, or, yes, a Ranger. There's no shame in giving your all and still not meeting the requirements for service, or getting medically discharged, or serving your time and doing your job without being one of the elite. There is in fabricating a background to cover up your own failures, and pretending to be something you aren't.
I'm a firearms advocate. I'm a machinegun & suppressor & firearms collector. I conceal carry. I teach people how to shoot, on my own dime, and try to do my part to educate, promote safety, and give back to the community.
When I have to go through fingerprint & background checks to buy a NFA registered item; when I have to get background checked to get a CCDW liscense, when I have to deal with the retarded anti-gun hysteria of the Brady group & their ilk, it really pisses me off to see a convicted felon bragging about carrying guns, and showing off his secret squirrel CQB gear with magazines & holsters for firearms he can't touch, let alone own.
I own this site, and a store in this industry. I bend over backwards and pay out the ass trying to provide a public service for everyone, one with 85,000 members and is gaining currently 100+ more a day. I don't charge the manufacturers a dime to be here. I don't charge people to view all the content. All I ask for is that they treat the community, and myself, with common courtesy and respect.
When I find out someone has abused that trust, lied to me, lied to the community, and done so for years, that pisses me off.
Did Mick Strider make mistakes in the past? Yes. No one will deny that. The issue is that he's failed to learn from those mistakes, failed to own up to them, misrepresented himself, outright lied and then when called on it tries to shirk responsiblity and blame everyone else or posture. That isn't behavior that should be rewarded. Covering it up does nobody a favor, other than Mick Strider, because he can't handle anyone scrutinizing his claims because they don't hold up.
If someone wants to call me out on something specific I've done, be my guest. Again, any incorrect information I will correct. That said, I will defend my stance here as long as it takes. Honor and integrity sometimes means taking the hard path and dealing with hurdles, facing your challengers, and shouldering your share of the burden & then some. Lying, hiding, making excuses, and shirking don't fit into that.
How people can make excuses for these things is beyond me. The reason there's been an "extended dialogue" is because people are making excuses for this behavior, or are more interested in attacking the messenger. I started one thread on this, and closed it after a week when nobody could even remotely refute anything I had to say. I didn't start this thread, but if people are going to continue to attack me, I'm going to continue to point out the hypocrisy and double standards, especially when their shit is weak. When a reformed con artist has a written list detailing the behavior I've seen "the other side" display, it's not saying a lot for what I'm up against.
All I can speak for is my own motivations. I busted my ass for 3 years in the Army, doing what I felt was my duty as a citizen. I'll be the first one to tell you I wasn't a posterboy when I was in, I got in trouble and tried to get away with things like every lower enlisted does. At the same time, I can look back on my service with pride, because I made the commitment and lived up to what was expected of me. While on jump status, I incurred my own injuries including fractured vertebrae, "traumatic spondololysis" (sp?), sprained ankles, 2 concussions, heat injuries, cuts, scrapes and bruises, the usual fare for any grunt. Every time I got injured, I did everything in my power to get back to continue the mission, return to my squad, and live up to my end. I did my job, and then some.
So, when someone makes half assed excuses for their failures, and tries to steal the valor of those who died in combat, and makes themselves up to be something they aren't, that pisses me off as a veteran. Nobody ever lies about being a clerk or a cook or a mechanic; they are always a SEAL or in Special Forces, or CCT / PJ, or Force Recon, or Special Operations, or, yes, a Ranger. There's no shame in giving your all and still not meeting the requirements for service, or getting medically discharged, or serving your time and doing your job without being one of the elite. There is in fabricating a background to cover up your own failures, and pretending to be something you aren't.
I'm a firearms advocate. I'm a machinegun & suppressor & firearms collector. I conceal carry. I teach people how to shoot, on my own dime, and try to do my part to educate, promote safety, and give back to the community.
When I have to go through fingerprint & background checks to buy a NFA registered item; when I have to get background checked to get a CCDW liscense, when I have to deal with the retarded anti-gun hysteria of the Brady group & their ilk, it really pisses me off to see a convicted felon bragging about carrying guns, and showing off his secret squirrel CQB gear with magazines & holsters for firearms he can't touch, let alone own.
I own this site, and a store in this industry. I bend over backwards and pay out the ass trying to provide a public service for everyone, one with 85,000 members and is gaining currently 100+ more a day. I don't charge the manufacturers a dime to be here. I don't charge people to view all the content. All I ask for is that they treat the community, and myself, with common courtesy and respect.
When I find out someone has abused that trust, lied to me, lied to the community, and done so for years, that pisses me off.
Did Mick Strider make mistakes in the past? Yes. No one will deny that. The issue is that he's failed to learn from those mistakes, failed to own up to them, misrepresented himself, outright lied and then when called on it tries to shirk responsiblity and blame everyone else or posture. That isn't behavior that should be rewarded. Covering it up does nobody a favor, other than Mick Strider, because he can't handle anyone scrutinizing his claims because they don't hold up.
If someone wants to call me out on something specific I've done, be my guest. Again, any incorrect information I will correct. That said, I will defend my stance here as long as it takes. Honor and integrity sometimes means taking the hard path and dealing with hurdles, facing your challengers, and shouldering your share of the burden & then some. Lying, hiding, making excuses, and shirking don't fit into that.
How people can make excuses for these things is beyond me. The reason there's been an "extended dialogue" is because people are making excuses for this behavior, or are more interested in attacking the messenger. I started one thread on this, and closed it after a week when nobody could even remotely refute anything I had to say. I didn't start this thread, but if people are going to continue to attack me, I'm going to continue to point out the hypocrisy and double standards, especially when their shit is weak. When a reformed con artist has a written list detailing the behavior I've seen "the other side" display, it's not saying a lot for what I'm up against.
This is a common response to this: Why does Mr. Strider's past matter? Haven't we all got something in our past we're not proud of?
The answer is that that question should be addressed to Mr. Strider. Why does his past matter that he so often talks about it and allows others to talk about it so very publically?
You see, Spark's accusations really aren't about Mr. Strider's past; they are about his very present practice of apparently misrepresenting -- rather exagerating -- his past. The thing Spark accuses Mr. Strider of misrepresenting and allowing others within his influence to misrepresent is his past. But that alleged practice of misrepresenting and allowing others to misrepresent is very present. One can assert that by knowingly allowing these misrepresentations to go uncorrected, Mr. Strider continues this practice up onto this very day.
The issue is NOT Mr. Strider's past; it is his present and ongoing practice of misrepresenting and allowing others within his influence to misrepresent his past.
Mr. Strider's past becomes a legitimate issue for discussion only because Mr. Strider claims it as a special credential that -- he claims and allows others within his influence to claim -- makes him uniquely or especially qualifed to design and make knives for combat purposes.
By making these claims and allowing others within his influence to make these claims, Mr. Strider makes his background a legitimate topic of discussion.
I'm not aware that Spark has ever claimed that his military experience makes him especially qualified as a a forum administrator or knife dealer.
What I know is that Mr. Strider as a very young man just a few years out of highschool, was convicted of a serious crime and sentenced to federal prison. He served his time and completed his sentence. Then, he pulled himself up by his own bootstraps and made himself into a successful and skilled knife designer and knife maker. He started a successful company that has his name. He is now a successful businessman running a manufacturing business in the US and an employer. By virtually all reports, his knives are well-designed and well-made and entirely combat-worthy. Those are his real tabs. Those are the tabs that he has earned. And those are tabs that he should be immensely proud of. In fact, I'll bet that there are fewer people who do what he has done -- get out of federal prison, turn their lives around, start a successful manufacturing company, and create jobs -- then that complete US Army Ranger School. Mr. Strider may not be an elite soldier with a glorious past, but he is an elite citizen with a glorious present. I don't see why he feels the need to stuff his resume. And I don't see why others feel the need for him to do so either.
The answer is that that question should be addressed to Mr. Strider. Why does his past matter that he so often talks about it and allows others to talk about it so very publically?
You see, Spark's accusations really aren't about Mr. Strider's past; they are about his very present practice of apparently misrepresenting -- rather exagerating -- his past. The thing Spark accuses Mr. Strider of misrepresenting and allowing others within his influence to misrepresent is his past. But that alleged practice of misrepresenting and allowing others to misrepresent is very present. One can assert that by knowingly allowing these misrepresentations to go uncorrected, Mr. Strider continues this practice up onto this very day.
The issue is NOT Mr. Strider's past; it is his present and ongoing practice of misrepresenting and allowing others within his influence to misrepresent his past.
Mr. Strider's past becomes a legitimate issue for discussion only because Mr. Strider claims it as a special credential that -- he claims and allows others within his influence to claim -- makes him uniquely or especially qualifed to design and make knives for combat purposes.
By making these claims and allowing others within his influence to make these claims, Mr. Strider makes his background a legitimate topic of discussion.
I'm not aware that Spark has ever claimed that his military experience makes him especially qualified as a a forum administrator or knife dealer.
What I know is that Mr. Strider as a very young man just a few years out of highschool, was convicted of a serious crime and sentenced to federal prison. He served his time and completed his sentence. Then, he pulled himself up by his own bootstraps and made himself into a successful and skilled knife designer and knife maker. He started a successful company that has his name. He is now a successful businessman running a manufacturing business in the US and an employer. By virtually all reports, his knives are well-designed and well-made and entirely combat-worthy. Those are his real tabs. Those are the tabs that he has earned. And those are tabs that he should be immensely proud of. In fact, I'll bet that there are fewer people who do what he has done -- get out of federal prison, turn their lives around, start a successful manufacturing company, and create jobs -- then that complete US Army Ranger School. Mr. Strider may not be an elite soldier with a glorious past, but he is an elite citizen with a glorious present. I don't see why he feels the need to stuff his resume. And I don't see why others feel the need for him to do so either.
Cougar Allen
Buccaneer (ret.)
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It's become a habit. Some people have been making excuses for Mick Strider and attacking the messengers (which they probably think of as defending him) for years, over one issue after another. Like all habits it's easy to get started ... not so easy to quit. Where do you draw the line? When do you slow down long enough for a little thought and begin to think about reassessing your position in the light of new information? If you get that far, can you face up to the realization that you've been wrong all this time?
Actually, if what you accuse him of is true, that he habitually lies to everyone and misrepresents and exaggerates his background and deliberately and knowingly allows others in his influence to exaggerate and misrepresent his past, then defending him or appologizing for him or excusing him does him no favor. It's like giving an alcoholic a bottle of vodka; he may thank you for it today, but it's not good for him and does him no favor at all.
It may be very hard for Mr. Strider's friends and supporters to understand this, but if Spark's accusations are true, then getting Mr. Strider to accept and embrace and take pride in and derive his self worth from his true past and leave a hollow fiction behind is the best thing for him. It's the first and critical step in getting those "spiders" out of his head, the "spiders" who are weaving a web of lies that tangles his brain.
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I lie about being a Cook all the time... to the ladies
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- 15,223
I lie about being a Cook all the time... to the ladies
I only wish I'd been the one who came up with the MRE Romantic Dinner (only 7000 calories!)
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Ah, don't we ALL wish that? Young dog, old dog, all of us...
I find it remarkable that 300 Million Americans can sleep comfortably every night though we've been led into mega-debt and quagmire for 6 years- by pathological and professional liars-ones that are incapable of anything but lies, and yet one guy in a population of 300 million- lies to cover up a shameful past and then delivers top notch product and suddenly he has to beg for forgiveness? That's Ridiculous!
This whole affair is perverse. I'm gonna wager that a few certain people would be very dissapointed if they actually get what they claim they want
C'mon admit it!
You'd hate it if he appologized...
...because it would then take all the fun out of the incessant mud slinging and badgering
... and then what would we these select few have to talk about? Knives? Boring!
...or maybe the pack of liars on Capitol Hill, Huh ? No! They don't make knives you see.
Strider? whatever dinero he's made in all his life is pissed out of our Treasury in a minute.
This whole affair is perverse. I'm gonna wager that a few certain people would be very dissapointed if they actually get what they claim they wantC'mon admit it!
You'd hate it if he appologized...
...because it would then take all the fun out of the incessant mud slinging and badgering
... and then what would we these select few have to talk about? Knives? Boring!
...or maybe the pack of liars on Capitol Hill, Huh ? No! They don't make knives you see.
Strider? whatever dinero he's made in all his life is pissed out of our Treasury in a minute.
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- 15,223
one guy in a population of 300 million- lies to cover up a shameful past and then delivers top notch product and suddenly he has to beg for forgiveness? That's Ridiculous!
C'mon admit it!
You'd hate it if he appologized...
...because it would then take all the fun out of the incessant mud slinging and badgering
... and then what would we these select few have to talk about? Knives? Boring!
Incessent mudslinging and badgering? Hell, this topic's barely been going on for a month now, and hardly even been discussed at that. I don't see it brought up anywhere else on the site even, yet this isn't the first time he's shown his ass. Where's the mudslinging & the badgering, except for, you know, the stuff directed at me? I've provided facts, documentation, and citations. You've responded with wacky excuses and the like.
He's been lying since 2000 or before. So how is it perverse if, justifiably, we're a bit disgusted with his behavior, especially when he's shown zero inclination to stop? Lying about your past to make your stuff more appealing isn't nullified by a good product. Just ask Ted Haggard how that male prostitute in his background affected his "good deeds."
Seriously, do you accept such pathetic excuses when you are doing your UI and scientific testing that you allude to in the KnifeTests.com thread? Or do you have standards, and expect them to be met before you accept results?
First, he hasn't even apologized for lying. Second, empty apologies mean nothing if you don't show the integrity to follow through and actually do the right thing. You don't get partial credit for doing the bare minimum, especially if you don't even do that. Heck, it took him getting sued by Osman for any even remotely correct information to come out at all... so how exactly has he done anything remotely "right" regarding this?
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Most of the arguments that are being made by the Strider defenders are ad hominem. That's what people do when they can't address the substance of the argument.
I find it remarkable that 300 Million Americans can sleep comfortably every night though we've been led into mega-debt and quagmire for 6 years- by pathological and professional liars-ones that are incapable of anything but lies, and yet one guy in a population of 300 million- lies to cover up a shameful past and then delivers top notch product and suddenly he has to beg for forgiveness? That's Ridiculous!
This is a variant of my rebuttal type #13:
Gollnick said:
only you have substituted some unnamed "pathological and professional liars." But the same thing is true: The wrongdoings of others can not excuse any wrongdoings of Mr. Strider.
Mr. Strider can not be held responsible or accountable for lies told by people who are very well out of his sphere of influence. But he can be held reponsible for lies that he himself tells and for not correcting inaccuracies made by people within his sphere of influence.
What Mr. Moodino argues here is that lying is ok... as long as you're not the worst liar on the stage.
I wonder what Mr. Moodino would think if his car was stolen and he called the police to report it and the response was, "Who cares? Compared to the New York Diamond Exchange Vault Heist, your car is nothing. Call us back when you think someone has perpetrated a really significant crime against you."
This idea that wrongdoings must be looked at relatively instead of absolutely -- relative to the worst crime ever committed -- is just plain wrong. It's a slippery-slope with a built in rachet.
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- 3,652
Then you haven't been paying close enough attention to the postings of some of the people closest to the source, and who claim to have "personal knowledge" of some of the issues Spark addressed. Go back and read Michelle's posts and speculations on the topic of the "combat/service" history issue. Heck, go back and read Tom Mayo's.