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Discussion in 'Spyderco' started by Stays Sharp, Jan 4, 2017.
Please keep us updated Sal. I want to own this knife!
I'm glad to see this because I REALLY want an Advocate but I'm really sketchy about picking one up and risking getting a lemon. Hopefully the issue gets resolved soon because its, in my opinion, one of the best looking and spec'd knives Spyderco has done.
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Glad to see this...I recently received one, and have been concerned by what I have seen.
Sure, I noticed the "grittiness"; but I've got other flippers that started out the same way...not a big deal until I saw the video, and started reading of possible issues. I'm torn between keeping & using it to see what happens, keeping it essentially unused to see what happens, or returning it; and none of the options are particularly appealing at this point.
For those who have one and are reporting no issues, have you taken your knife apart to check? I've had one since they came out, and though the action wasn't great, I wasn't concerned. Until a few in the knife community reached out to me about mine. I took it apart and discovered the same issues Apostle P had with his. In fact, mine was worse. There was annealing on the Ti and the washers were very worn and deformed. I was shocked actually. I've been hanging on to it to see how Spyderco responds. I love everything about the knife, minus the action. It just can't compare to the other bearing flippers I have. Hopefully Spyderco has a good resolution to the problem and stands behind their product. I have a feeling they will. It overall a fantastic design. For the $$$ it costs though, there shouldn't be this issue with the bearings and washers, and I'm concerned with the wear over time.
It will be interested to see how all those who have taken their knives apart to inspect the pivot will be treated by Spyderco because of their no tamper policy .
Whether you agree with the no dismantling rule or not it is still a Spyderco policy and the second you dismantle the knife you no longer have a legitimate claim , be careful people .
Those warped washers from Apostle P's video really shocked me (especially after only very brief use). This is a big turn-off and disappointment. I am now tempted to disassemble my domino to see whether there exists the same issue.
Check this out:
Nice! Boss is on it!
Hmm, interesting. The flattened detent ball of the Mantra you posted is surprising, although I never cared for that knife because of the fact that M4 is used on a 3-inch knife.
This has prompted me to search for youtube disassembly videos of the domino. Saw quite a few warped washers in those! Guess the construction of Spyderco's Taichung bearing knives has always been the same or similar. Something about the Advocate must have made the inherent flaw more readily noticeable than in other models.
So, I've been holding back this comment because I don't want to derail the OP's original intent (or the one on the other forum)...but anyway... I took apart my Southard shortly after receiving it. The washers were dished but not pitted. After 4 subsequent months and LOTS of flipping, it's still smooth. From looking at the YouTube and various other sources, my best guess is the bearings are the same but the washers are even thinner on the Advocate. I could be wrong, however.
I'm still really curious to see how this plays out and will continue to follow closely.
I've only had my Advocate for a few days and flipped it maybe a 100 times. It hasn't developed any of the problems discussed so far. However the centering was not perfect and I decided to perform preventive maintenance on it. I took it apart and bent the frame lock by about .005 of an inch to lessen the tension on the detent. I assembled the knife and tightened the pivot until the centering was perfect. The knife is buttery smooth now whether using the flipper, Spydie hole or middle finger flip. The knife still locks up tighter than a drum but is much easier on the thumb when closing. I own about 350 knives and used this technique on about 8 of them and have never had a problem. Five of the 8 knives were Spydercos.
Is this issue isolated to the advocate or is it present on other spyderco flippers?
The same problem CAN be present in any of spyderco flippers with this setup. It is not necessarily going to be there for sure. It's prevalent enough to be seen by multiple well known reviewers on multiple knives with this system.
I don't doubt that there are issues with some of these flippers. I do question how prevalent it is. And I wonder why anyone with issues doesn't send the knife to Spyderco.
My Advocate and Mantra (1) are perfect. A Dice, one of my two Dominos and one of my five Southards need wrist action to flip. Sort of like the complaints about Hinderers.
I just got a Mantra 2 days ago. Out of the box is was stiff - but during the course of the evening it smoothed out. As I am typing this, I do not detect any grittiness in the knife. Will revisit this subject later this month to let you know if it gets worse, but right now everything seems to be flawless with this Mantra. I am interested as I really like the Advocate and am/was going to buy one.
I've abused the hell out of my Domino and taken it apart numerous times.
The washers are indeed dished, but it hasn't affected the smoothness or flip-ability at all.
I'm wondering if this is much ado about nothing...
I don't think it has as much to do with the fact that the washers get dished, but the fact that they get dimpled by the bearings easily. I'm speculating, but the dimples could be caused by over-tightening from the factory, or possibly by users.
Not sure how I feel on this subject. My sample flips with authority. Sure, it has its moments when it doesn't flip to lockup but it is rare and I say this after flipping it a million times. Opening via the Spydie hole I do not notice any grittiness.
Mine works perfectly with no gritty feeling at all. Flips very well.
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We've gotten a few in Customer service and 95% of those had been tampered with. When making flippers with light thin blades, the adjustment is very critical. Flippers with heavy thick blades are not as critical. If you don't mess with it, you should be ok.