Spyderco Fakes & Knock Offs Info

neffarious said:
"absolutely the best spyderco southard clone money can buy! get a real one next to it in your hands and you will never know the difference."

Seriously, that's Complete B$.
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Why? Will the average person know the difference?
 
sogflash said:
Why? Will the average person know the difference?
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The "average" person has no idea that knives cost upwards of what they see at Wal-Mart or Big 5 sporting good stores. Some coworkers about fainted when they overheard my friend mention what he paid for his Delica. The average knife collector should already know that if a deal is too good to be true it usually is. Buying from a reputable vendor is the only way to go. If an item is priced above our means, then we need to learn to either save up for it or move along somehow without it. Unfortunately there are people that disregard their common sense and insist on buying something for much less than what the actual cost is. In some cases it is entitlement, in other cases it's denial, in every case this is theft. Now, you've been here a while, do you think pot metal steel can cut as well as a highly refined alloy such as CTS-204P? Good question to ask yourself.
 
I would ask for a material cert. on their claim it is CTS-204P. As many fakes as they made, I bet Carpenter would know a bunch of their steel went to China. What do you want to bet they don't know about these knives?
 
It's at best some sort of German D-2, they use it for everything they clone then mark it whatever the real deal has.
 
sogflash said:
Why? Will the average person know the difference?
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The sort of person that wants to buy a Southard (a knife nut--who else pines for these sort of products?) should notice the difference. The real product is just about perfect, as far as fit and finish go, at least on the five I own. The fake has a big collection of small flaws that make for a lesser overall impression by far.

RevDevil said:
The "average" person has no idea that knives cost upwards of what they see at Wal-Mart or Big 5 sporting good stores. Some coworkers about fainted when they overheard my friend mention what he paid for his Delica. The average knife collector should already know that if a deal is too good to be true it usually is. Buying from a reputable vendor is the only way to go. If an item is priced above our means, then we need to learn to either save up for it or move along somehow without it. Unfortunately there are people that disregard their common sense and insist on buying something for much less than what the actual cost is. In some cases it is entitlement, in other cases it's denial, in every case this is theft. Now, you've been here a while, do you think pot metal steel can cut as well as a highly refined alloy such as CTS-204P? Good question to ask yourself.
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I agree with almost all of this, except for the "pot metal" business, for two reasons. First, the difference in edge retention between AUS8 and M390 makes about 0% difference in actual use for most people. There are a lot of people who sharpen infrequently at most, some once a year or less--what would halving the time they went between sharpening really matter? That's for the knives that get used at all--hop into the exchange and 90% of knives listed or more, Spyderco knives included, are listed as BNIB or LNIB, and look like they've never seen daylight, much less cut anything.

I think counterfeits are evil, and that the people making them and selling them suck, but I cringe a bit when folks dismiss the counterfeits as being total crap or that they're made from pot metal or the like. The truth is that these knives are quite well made, and while I have no doubt that no CTS-204p is used in the production of these fake Southards they're not made from tinfoil either; the one I have has a titanium frame, captive bearing rings at the pivot, carbon fiber scales and over-travel stop, and what is most likely (based on my having sharpened it and played around with it a bit, nothing more) 9Cr18Mov blade steel.

Shun people who promote making, selling or buying them by all means, but when we pretend the knives are total crap we risk making ourselves look silly and worse probably leading folks to think that they would easily be able to tell the difference between the real thing and the fakes at a glance (something that is true with the Southard clone, but isn't even close to true with what I've seen of the PM2 clones).
 
Some of the fakes coming out of China like that Southard clone are getting so good that I'm not even sure the average Bladeforums member would be able to pick out the fake unless they disassembled the knife or had a real one to compare it to. I think we hate these clones so much that we just don't want to admit that some of them are actually really well made. What I don't understand is if knife nuts don't buy fakes and non knife people aren't going to spend $80 on a knife who is going to buy these high quality fakes?
 
Maybe some of you misunderstood my comment. I don't think the statement "get a real one next to it in your hands and you will never know the difference." is complete B$ as neffarious put it. I don't know if I would spot the difference immediately.

If you get to disassemble it next to a real southard it'll be more obvious.

I did not want to sound pro counterfeit.
 
I've seen these counterfeits and they do try to make them as close as possible to the real deal. I think the computer controlled milling machines makes it fairly easy to do so. Thing is they are charging 140 bucks and so for them and their labor cost is far less than anywhere else in the world. They should be at least decent for that money. After all the Chinese are making nearly everything else we use aren't they? Some of it much more complicated than a knife. I just wish they would design their own stuff instead of trying to copy everything that sells well.
 
A few years back I sent so many notifications to Ebay about Counterfeit listings on their site that my fingers went numb. Bottom line,they could actually care less.At best they asked the seller to drop or change a word in future listings. When I purchase a Southard after the holidays are over,it will be from an authorized Spyderco Dealer. I no longer buy knives on Ebay.
 
I no longer buy Spydercos on ebay. May too many well made clones out there now. It has been that way with Strider for even longer.

I do have a used ZDP 189 Caly on the way that I got on ebay for a nice price. I haven't seen clones of that yet.

skyhorse said:
A few years back I sent so many notifications to Ebay about Counterfeit listings on their site that my fingers went numb. Bottom line,they could actually care less.At best they asked the seller to drop or change a word in future listings. When I purchase a Southard after the holidays are over,it will be from an authorized Spyderco Dealer. I no longer buy knives on Ebay.
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Fake or prototype, that's a pretty bad description.

A question related to that auction, why would someone overbid them self again and again?
 
It doesn't work like that. They have a max bid and someone bid below that, thus forcing their bid to top the latest bid.
 
Bought a Titanium Military off Amazon and I think it might be a fake. Might be hard to see in pics but the lettering seems smaller and fatter than usual.

edit: looks like I may have jumped the gun, editing to prevent confusion
 
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Hhi Chriiis & Wolf,

Wecome to our forum.

It's really not possible for us to determine if it's a fake unless we can get it in our hands. We also have a new engraver which might make a difference in the lettering.

sal
 
Hi Mr. Glesser, always a pleasure to see you posting here at BF and on your official forums. I enjoy lurking both knowing that you actively read threads both here and there.

Not sure if it's pertinent or not, but I also compared the "Edge-U-Cation" sheet to some of the others I have and the one that came with this Ti-millie is slightly bigger and the paper felt less "heavy" or of less quality. Does anyone know if there was a change like this for more recent knives?
 
chriiis said:
Bought a Titanium Military off Amazon and I think it might be a fake. Might be hard to see in pics but the lettering seems smaller and fatter than usual.

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and a wider side by side shot

Maybe I'm just paranoid, but if it is a fake it's a scary close one.

Edit: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_q8Y8wkEkXI

A vid supposedly showing off G10 and Titanium military knockoffs
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Cuts on blade at finger guard are different.
Surfaces of the pivot bolts are different.
Look inside cutout made so finger can work lock. See the cuts on the orange one. None on the left one. On the left one, the metal is inset down into the Ti. On the right, it rides over the edge of the scales.
Spyders are different, but that could be the engraver change.
 
Best way of telling take your knife apart the blade should have a birth date engraved by the pivot matching the box! I try to stay away from eBay as much as possible!
 
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