Spyderco Fakes & Knock Offs Info

lobo9er said:
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Oem-SPYDERCO-C149-VALLOTTON-SUB-HILT-FOLDER-C149G-Folding-knife-Cpm-S30v-G-10-handle-Drop/32244137224.html

Here's a link to fake vallotton on Aliexpress. I was sold one from an ebayer named "shabster310"
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I have a real Vallotton and have already ordered a fake, should be here in a few weeks. I plan to do a video and put it up on my Youtube page with the other clone reviews. Should be interesting because the Real Vallotton is made very well and feels really nice in the hand. I'll be Interested in seeing how a $25 clone stacks up.

I also have a Fake Hungarian and another Southard in SS which will be here next week.
 
les_garten said:
I have a real Vallotton and have already ordered a fake, should be here in a few weeks. I plan to do a video and put it up on my Youtube page with the other clone reviews. Should be interesting because the Real Vallotton is made very well and feels really nice in the hand. I'll be Interested in seeing how a $25 clone stacks up.

I also have a Fake Hungarian and another Southard in SS which will be here next week.
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I admire your time and financial dedication to the cause of documenting and comparing fakes. Way'ta take one for the cause! :thumbup:
Hate the fact that it is supporting their sales though, but not much other way I guess...


Please say that when you're finished with all of the knock-offs that you'll make one long grand finale video of them being burned, melted, sledgehammered on an anvil, used as pry bars, and shot with rifles at a range. :D
 
lobo9er said:
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Oem-SPYDERCO-C149-VALLOTTON-SUB-HILT-FOLDER-C149G-Folding-knife-Cpm-S30v-G-10-handle-Drop/32244137224.html

Here's a link to fake vallotton on Aliexpress. I was sold one from an ebayer named "shabster310"
Click to expand...

Here's part of the review someone left.

"Blade will shave the hair on my arm. Pretty good. Blade stock is nice and thick as well as being well centered. Really folks...it costs approximately 26 dollars instead of $200. This is a no brainer. I liked this design from Spyderco and now have a copy that functions as well as the original that I can carry at a fraction of the price. Wow."

I really don't know what to say. Do people expect cheap clones to have the same quality as a real one?
 
sogflash said:
Here's part of the review someone left.

"Blade will shave the hair on my arm. Pretty good. Blade stock is nice and thick as well as being well centered. Really folks...it costs approximately 26 dollars instead of $200. This is a no brainer. I liked this design from Spyderco and now have a copy that functions as well as the original that I can carry at a fraction of the price. Wow."

I really don't know what to say. Do people expect cheap clones to have the same quality as a real one?
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Yes, that seems exactly what a majority of "blind" consumers want. They'll settle for poor to mediocre-at-best quality and a gamble in QC whether you get a lemon or a cherry, all for a cut in price.
Disappointing... because it shows what many industries are fighting and the direction things are going.

Just look at LED light bars for example.
 
sogflash said:
Here's part of the review someone left.

"Blade will shave the hair on my arm. Pretty good. Blade stock is nice and thick as well as being well centered. Really folks...it costs approximately 26 dollars instead of $200. This is a no brainer. I liked this design from Spyderco and now have a copy that functions as well as the original that I can carry at a fraction of the price. Wow."

I really don't know what to say. Do people expect cheap clones to have the same quality as a real one?
Click to expand...

I will say that the Titanium Southard is 99% quality of the Real thing. The steel is D2. It is so close as to be absolutely scary. And if you are not an Expert on Southards you would buy one, be fooled, and be Happy, especially at $58. The Military is a very nice Knock off. The Endura as well. Some are pretty bad, what can you expect for $8 or $11. But even at that price, they are worth the price, just nothing like say a real Dragonfly. But spend $20 or more and you can get a very good knife. I will be very curious to see the Vallotton. But they may be able to pull off something acceptable. The finish on the Micarta in the pictures doesn't look like the nicely finished real Micarta, but we'll see.

Don't think that a country who has very few taxes and a labor rate below a buck an hour can't produce really nicely done stuff. Their raw materials are a fraction of ours and they have no OSHA or EPA to siphon off profits.

I bought some racing parts for a Porsche from a US company called Clewitt engineering a few years back. I found a Porsche guy in China producing/cloning the same parts in China for a fraction of the cost. Totally ripping off Clewitt. I had already bought my stuff, but I might have considered some of his less mission critical parts had I seen him prior to my purchase.

I have some Audio Digital to Analog converters I bought direct from China which are Mark Levinson and Krell knock offs. From Krell, $10,000, from Audio-gd.com $1500.
I've got a few Headphone amps that would be astronomical to buy "sold" by a US or Bristich company that are awesome values. There are some really really nice Chinese audio companies.

I have a set of Ear Buds made by Yuin, that look cheap as hell, but they blow away the Shures I just returned last week to Crutchfield. The Shures were very pretty though...

China for a long time didn't have to do quality because they only sold into their own captive market. They are awakening to "what constitutes quality".

A couple things will come from this, they are getting good at making quality stuff, but still prone to stupid cost cutting mistakes because they are "learning" and don't appreciate some things that we do, such as switchgear on audio equipment, labels, etc.

The other thing is that their own people want more and are demanding more. This will cause their costs to go up and maybe quality that is getting very good now may subside in the future.

But for now, yes, you can get one of those Ti Southards and will be blown away, I don't care how jaded you are, you cannot find fault in that knife at double or triple the price.

That all being said, there is on most of these knives a quality gap that is too large for me to hold onto them. Even the Southard I got rid of. For instance the Enduras are maybe 75% and probably not that exotic of a steel. I Love the Spydie Endura ans a knock off won't cut it. The Southard, I have a real one and just wouldn't have a fake.

The Hinderer XM-18 I have will stay. It's a Kevin John Bowie grind XM-18 clone and is superbly made. I don't see me dumping the cash for a Hinderer, so this one will make a nice knife.

I don't sell the clones, I've had people ask me if I would sell them. I'm not sure about the legality of that. They are usually passed onto kids with full disclosure or become practice for my Wicked Edge Professional Series I got. Wherever they go, they are not allowed to be sold. Occasionally I take one apart and it does not survive the Surgical experience...
 
les_garten said:
I will say that the Titanium Southard is 99% quality of the Real thing. The steel is D2. It is so close as to be absolutely scary. And if you are not an Expert on Southards you would buy one, be fooled, and be Happy, especially at $58. The Military is a very nice Knock off. The Endura as well. Some are pretty bad, what can you expect for $8 or $11. But even at that price, they are worth the price, just nothing like say a real Dragonfly. But spend $20 or more and you can get a very good knife. I will be very curious to see the Vallotton. But they may be able to pull off something acceptable. The finish on the Micarta in the pictures doesn't look like the nicely finished real Micarta, but we'll see.

Don't think that a country who has very few taxes and a labor rate below a buck an hour can't produce really nicely done stuff. Their raw materials are a fraction of ours and they have no OSHA or EPA to siphon off profits.

I bought some racing parts for a Porsche from a US company called Clewitt engineering a few years back. I found a Porsche guy in China producing/cloning the same parts in China for a fraction of the cost. Totally ripping off Clewitt. I had already bought my stuff, but I might have considered some of his less mission critical parts had I seen him prior to my purchase.

I have some Audio Digital to Analog converters I bought direct from China which are Mark Levinson and Krell knock offs. From Krell, $10,000, from Audio-gd.com $1500.
I've got a few Headphone amps that would be astronomical to buy "sold" by a US or Bristich company that are awesome values. There are some really really nice Chinese audio companies.

I have a set of Ear Buds made by Yuin, that look cheap as hell, but they blow away the Shures I just returned last week to Crutchfield. The Shures were very pretty though...

China for a long time didn't have to do quality because they only sold into their own captive market. They are awakening to "what constitutes quality".

A couple things will come from this, they are getting good at making quality stuff, but still prone to stupid cost cutting mistakes because they are "learning" and don't appreciate some things that we do, such as switchgear on audio equipment, labels, etc.

The other thing is that their own people want more and are demanding more. This will cause their costs to go up and maybe quality that is getting very good now may subside in the future.

But for now, yes, you can get one of those Ti Southards and will be blown away, I don't care how jaded you are, you cannot find fault in that knife at double or triple the price.

That all being said, there is on most of these knives a quality gap that is too large for me to hold onto them. Even the Southard I got rid of. For instance the Enduras are maybe 75% and probably not that exotic of a steel. I Love the Spydie Endura ans a knock off won't cut it. The Southard, I have a real one and just wouldn't have a fake.

The Hinderer XM-18 I have will stay. It's a Kevin John Bowie grind XM-18 clone and is superbly made. I don't see me dumping the cash for a Hinderer, so this one will make a nice knife.

I don't sell the clones, I've had people ask me if I would sell them. I'm not sure about the legality of that. They are usually passed onto kids with full disclosure or become practice for my Wicked Edge Professional Series I got. Wherever they go, they are not allowed to be sold. Occasionally I take one apart and it does not survive the Surgical experience...
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How can you verify the make up of the D2 in that blade, and what about the heat-treat? What about the grade of titanium? Who can ensure these things?
I think QC is big gamble in a country of knock-offs where a patent or trademark means nothing.

I'm not going to bother going into a huge type-off on a knife forum, but I see what you mean. Quality of certain products is definitely increasing, similar thing happened to Japan, and slightly more recently Korea... But both of those countries honor patents, certifications, regulations, name-brands, trademarks, etc...
Reminds me, my wife was purchasing housings for control panels for an electrical supply company, and the company she was inquiring with in China asked if they wanted "UL approved" stickers added to the housings for another $1/ea, even though they weren't necessarily UL approved!?
Same country that had factories that were adding plastic foam "filler" into their rice and selling it... Crazy stuff. Nobody is accountable.
 
SpeedHoles said:
How can you verify the make up of the D2 in that blade, and what about the heat-treat? What about the grade of titanium? Who can ensure these things?
I think QC is big gamble in a country of knock-offs where a patent or trademark means nothing.

I'm not going to bother going into a huge type-off on a knife forum, but I see what you mean. Quality of certain products is definitely increasing, similar thing happened to Japan, and slightly more recently Korea... But both of those countries honor patents, certifications, regulations, name-brands, trademarks, etc...
Reminds me, my wife was purchasing housings for control panels for an electrical supply company, and the company she was inquiring with in China asked if they wanted "UL approved" stickers added to the housings for another $1/ea, even though they weren't necessarily UL approved!?
Same country that had factories that were adding plastic foam "filler" into their rice and selling it... Crazy stuff. Nobody is accountable.
Click to expand...

How can you verify anything? For instance the Elmax of my ZT 561? Who is proud of that Metallurgy? I think if you saw my videos, you would see that I make a statement about metallurgy, you got no idea what you are getting. What have you "verified" about the titanium in the Spyderco Dice or Southard? What difference does the titanium in the frame make to you?

If you look in my pocket, you'll find a real Spyderco, but I call 'em as I see 'em. Good, bad, or otherwise.

If you only got $60 to spend on a knife, I don't believe you can beat that Southard if you want to have that type of knife, and the materials, fit and finish are absolutely Excellent. That is a fact and really is beyond dispute, unless you have one and can demonstrate the huge issues that make it not worth 2-3 times what it cost, which is what it's worth IMO. Especially if the steel is D2.

I have Spydercos that are made in China, they are good knives. I have a ton that are made in Taiwan, I don't see much of a difference there, still part of China.

You mention Japan, they had the same growing pains as well. People said the exact same things about them back in the 50's. Then Viet Nam came and GI's put them on the map quality wise. My Dad came back with a Seiko watch on his arm and Sony, Sansui, Akai, and Teac audio gear. All still working. I would not defend the fact that China doesn't give a crap about their people or customers. However, if you walk around your house I'm betting there is more Chinese stuff over anything else present in it.

I'm just reviewing their knock offs for quality, nothing more They make something bad, I'll call it bad, they make something good, I'll call it good. And they do an amazing job in a lot of instances. They are getting better at things, not worse. Who thought Korea would be making some of the best Cell Phones, TV's, cars, Hard Drives, etc, etc. Korea was producing some real Junk back in the 80's, look at them now.

10 or 20 years from now, Chinese cars will be all over the place...
 
les_garten said:
How can you verify anything? For instance the Elmax of my ZT 561? Who is proud of that Metallurgy? I think if you saw my videos, you would see that I make a statement about metallurgy, you got no idea what you are getting. What have you "verified" about the titanium in the Spyderco Dice or Southard? What difference does the titanium in the frame make to you?

If you look in my pocket, you'll find a real Spyderco, but I call 'em as I see 'em. Good, bad, or otherwise.

If you only got $60 to spend on a knife, I don't believe you can beat that Southard if you want to have that type of knife, and the materials, fit and finish are absolutely Excellent. That is a fact and really is beyond dispute, unless you have one and can demonstrate the huge issues that make it not worth 2-3 times what it cost, which is what it's worth IMO. Especially if the steel is D2.

I have Spydercos that are made in China, they are good knives. I have a ton that are made in Taiwan, I don't see much of a difference there, still part of China.

You mention Japan, they had the same growing pains as well. People said the exact same things about them back in the 50's. Then Viet Nam came and GI's put them on the map quality wise. My Dad came back with a Seiko watch on his arm and Sony, Sansui, Akai, and Teac audio gear. All still working. I would not defend the fact that China doesn't give a crap about their people or customers. However, if you walk around your house I'm betting there is more Chinese stuff over anything else present in it.

I'm just reviewing their knock offs for quality, nothing more They make something bad, I'll call it bad, they make something good, I'll call it good. And they do an amazing job in a lot of instances. They are getting better at things, not worse. Who thought Korea would be making some of the best Cell Phones, TV's, cars, Hard Drives, etc, etc. Korea was producing some real Junk back in the 80's, look at them now.

10 or 20 years from now, Chinese cars will be all over the place...
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I'm pretty sure you're making the same argument that I was above, lol. Exactly why I brought up Japan and Korea, you just went into detail about it.
Taiwan has also long been known to possess much more precise manufacturing ability than most of mainland China, much thanks to the Japanese and their influence in Taiwan. Taiwan is also well known as making some of the most advanced carbon bicycles and cycling components in the world. This may change in the future, as things do, but it is worth noting presently. Taiwan, while politically a republic of China, is not the same country.

But, the fact that I don't know what is in the make up of the materials in the actual branded product lies in my faith that they R&D and designed and produced the said product and sold it as advertised. That's good business. You're right, I do not know those details for fact, but I trust certain companies that exist to supply as such, and is why I support them by paying near what is set as an MSRP for said product. These knock-off factories that straight rip off those ideas and designs may save you the consumer a few bucks out of pocket, but at what cost? Putting Spyderco and others out of business?


Should I add, that much of country of origin discussion is moot point. In many of our lifetimes people will be having this same discussion about India and Malaysia and others after the bubble in China grows too expensive...
But the fact that ripping off R&D exists so rampantly now, and people support it to save a few bucks is the point I'm trying to make apparent...
 
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SpeedHoles said:
I'm pretty sure you're making the same argument that I was above, lol. Exactly why I brought up Japan and Korea, you just went into detail about it.
Taiwan has also long been known to possess much more precise manufacturing ability than most of mainland China, much thanks to the Japanese and their influence in Taiwan. Taiwan is also well known as making some of the most advanced carbon bicycles and cycling components in the world. This may change in the future, as things do, but it is worth noting presently. Taiwan, while politically a republic of China, is not the same country.

But, the fact that I don't know what is in the make up of the materials in the actual branded product lies in my faith that they R&D and designed and produced the said product and sold it as advertised. That's good business. You're right, I do not know those details for fact, but I trust certain companies that exist to supply as such, and is why I support them by paying near what is set as an MSRP for said product. These knock-off factories that straight rip off those ideas and designs may save you the consumer a few bucks out of pocket, but at what cost? Putting Spyderco and others out of business?


Should I add, that much of country of origin discussion is moot point. In many of our lifetimes people will be having this same discussion about India and Malaysia and others after the bubble in China grows too expensive...
But the fact that ripping off R&D exists so rampantly now, and people support it to save a few bucks is the point I'm trying to make apparent...
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Good points, all. My intention of reviewing these clones is 2 fold.

First, and most importantly is so less people "get taken" thinking they are buying genuine Spyderco. I tailor my videos around this. It is the primary reason for them

Secondly, I try to point out where the QC is good and bad, which is to show where you can be fooled by a good quality knife being in actuality a counterfeit.

When I started doing these I wasn't prepared for how good some of them are.
 
If blade steel could be proved, the fake vallotton would be worth $25 even if the steel was a 420hc or 440c but I do not trust aliexpress lol the knife is listed as D2 in one listing and s30v is another... so its what ever they used knife steel. It was shaving sharp, not popping, but would shave arm hair. How long that edge would hold is another story I will not know the end of.
 
lobo9er said:
If blade steel could be proved, the fake vallotton would be worth $25 even if the steel was a 420hc or 440c but I do not trust aliexpress lol the knife is listed as D2 in one listing and s30v is another... so its what ever they used knife steel. It was shaving sharp, not popping, but would shave arm hair. How long that edge would hold is another story I will not know the end of.
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I agree with the trust issue. The reason why they would list as one steel but tell you another is simple to answer though. They are copying the labels. I bought that Southard and asked what the steel was since it said CTS-204P. They replied D2 I believe, or that may have been the Hinderer or maybe both. Can't really remember now. My experience with most of the vendors is that they are pretty forthcoming and will respond accurately to your questions. They are going to replicate the labeling though.

It is a good idea to ask questions ahead of time. If they respond quickly that's a good sign. I've only had one issue and that was from a guy I did not wait for the answer from and I'm having to claw back my cash. He just would not communicate.

Ask them some questions on different knives and see what they say. I've ordered quite a bit from Aliexpress and have only ran into this one vendor that was slow to ship. Of course slow is a relative term when dealing with Mail from China. You want it fast or you want it cheap, pick one!
 
gitarmac said:
Welp, I just read this entire thread.

I was wanting to replace a delica I misplaced and perused amazon. I read some of the reviews and some people said that instead of "VG10", they said "V810"

Some of the reviewers gave bad reviews stating they were sent fakes. I hesitated to order anything but a couple days later I purchased a purple delica. I just got it today. The blade says "VG10" and the fit and finish is flawless. Nice and sharp too!

Now I'm wondering though, it sounds like some people did indeed get fakes. I don't have my old delica to compare it with and it probably wouldn't matter as it's a different version, the new one is the delica 4.

I'll post some pics tomorrow. I know that amazon does sell fake stuff, I've gotten fake crossbow bolts and fake charging cords. Sometimes you know you are getting knockoffs but the bolts were supposed to have the brand logo on them and they didn't, plus the weight was different.

There have been several questions in this thread about what amazon has been selling but I didn't see much in the way of responses, only ones about ebay stores. I was thinking about getting an endure from amazon but I don't think I want to risk getting a fake.
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I have read every review on amazon about this situation. And from what I can gather is no one received one stamped "V8-10". The stock image amazon uses does appear to say "V8-10" but I believe someone tried to touch the photo up and screwed up on PhotoShop. I wouldn't be too worried about buying from Amazon if you get it from them directly but as others have said a few scumbags have ordered the real one and switched it for a fake and sent it back.
 
les_garten said:
I've never seen a fake Delica

Post the best close up PIC you can get of the Label in the middle of the scales. That's how you'll know.
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How would we know from the label in the middle of the scales? Do the fakes have something missing or added or what? Just curious............
 
SharpShooter901 said:
How would we know from the label in the middle of the scales? Do the fakes have something missing or added or what? Just curious............
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You can search for endura clone on YouTube and the Messer HQ video does a good job of explaining the logo differences. He also talks about the bi-directional texturing on the real frn scales are much sharper I guess you'd say, the texture grips well where the fakes are smoother textured. I know the question wasn't directed to me but I thought maybe I could help. I know you have the delica but I'm sure this will apply. I just purchased a delica4 recently from smkw and love it.
 
Thanks for the info on mye "scale" question on the fakes. Very interesting. The fakers have done a remarkable job on making a similar looking product.
 
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