Spyderco Manix 2 and Benchmade Griptillian - Next 2 test knives

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Ankerson said:
It's a knife test... ;)

The lock is just part of it.
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Now it's a knife test when before all the claims and praise were for the Triad lock? Like I said, a pivot coming loose says nothing about the strength of the lock, or the knife if that is how you now want to phrase it now.

Again, do you get a flat tire and keep driving down the road? I doubt it.
 
Two questions for you, Jim. These are totally neutral, good faith questions.

First, have you looked over (or even disassembled) the Manix to see whether there was any damage to, or failure of, the main lock components (tang, ball, cage, spring)?

Second, I've now watched quite a bunch of your videos and think I have a better context than I had earlier, but I do have a question, and this is an honest question. A lot of the tasks seem geared to bushcraft and/or survival sort of use. But bushcraft and survival knives are (or at least this has been my impression) always fixed blade knives. So my question is, basically, what's the rationale for these very tough workouts? Is it a desire to push the things really, really hard to see what happens, or is it to see if they are practically suited to bushcraft-type use, or something else? For the third time, I'm truly not trying to bait or trap you - just honestly curious, because you've obviously put tons or work, time and money into these projects.

Thanks for reading and any responses!
John
 
I'm not the OP, obviously, but if the desire is to see what happens in a truly worst-case scenario, then it's also logical to assume that you either wouldn't have, or wouldn't have an opportunity to use, the right tool to tighten up the pivot.

The thing that is sort of ironic is that there was obviously another impact tool ready at hand. :D If that were me, and the situation was real life rather than YouTube, I'd use the big stick, or find a suitable rock, to do my banging with. ;)

FlaMtnBkr said:
Don't let your pivot get loose and you have nothing to worry about. Once horizontal play developed from twisting out while cutting wood the test should have been stopped and the pivot tightened. Continuing under the guise of "keeping it fair" proved absolutely nothing and was a waste of a good knife.
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JNewell said:
I'm not the OP, obviously, but if the desire is to see what happens in a truly worst-case scenario, then it's also logical to assume that you either wouldn't have, or wouldn't have an opportunity to use, the right tool to tighten up the pivot.

The thing that is sort of ironic is that there was obviously another impact tool ready at hand. :D If that were me, and the situation was real life rather than YouTube, I'd use the big stick, or find a suitable rock, to do my banging with. ;)
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That's true but more than likely you aren't going to have a brand new knife out in the woods that hasn't had time to properly seat the blade and make sure it's not a lemon. I have had lots of knives from different brands loosen up when new. I also put horizontal pressure on a blade when adjusting the pivot to help seat everything and insure it doesn't loosen up again once some stresses have been applied.

I am open minded about all this. I have no problem saying the Triad lock is a great design. But I'm also not going to come to a conclusion and write something off when there was obviously something loose and easily fixed that lead to the failure. Some people wrote certain knives off before they were even stressed which I find questionable.
 
freq18hz said:
Knives are meant to cut, not withstand specific abuse.

Look at the Kershaw leek. Show me a knife that cuts better. The tip of that knife is very fragile, yet it cuts like a laser.

So basically we are reviewing a folding knife in place of a folding prybar?

Maybe next we can try and see how well a can opener works as a saw?


-Freq
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you are making tremedous illogical leaps in this thread. and your analogies are terrible.

batoning is a type of cutting. you may not like it, but it is cutting nonetheless.


ankerson did not baton with a metal hammer, chop cinder blocks, put the knives in a vice, or anything else that one would expect to induce failure. i saw nothing that would make me think he was abusing the knives. i saw nothing that i thought would induce lock failure.

everyone who keeps saying folders are not pry tools, you should get a fixed blade....blah....blah....blah. thx for the rhetoric. the fact is, i may indeed have to use a folding knife as a pry tool. its not my first choice, but i don't carry a prybar with me everywhere. i do carry a knife with me. i may not get to use my first choice.

clearly some knives can withstand what he does. in fact, he has done the same thing with several folders that do not have the triad lock. some can take it, some cant.

i like the videos. they are short and to the point. keep 'em coming.
 
Thanks for doing the tests, I couldn't bring myself to try it.

I realize this might come off as a bit of a "noob" question, but I'm still a bit new to knives. What is a situation where a knife would be utilized and be forced to withstand a spine whack?

Thanks again.
 
jackthedog said:
Thanks for doing the tests, I couldn't bring myself to try it.

I realize this might come off as a bit of a "noob" question, but I'm still a bit new to knives. What is a situation where a knife would be utilized and be forced to withstand a spine whack?

Thanks again.
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the spine whack, or spine tap, or whatever one chooses to utilize, is to test lock reliability, not necessarily lock strength.

while it is unlikely that someone would intentionally use a folder by hitting the spine of the blade, it is possible to have the spine or some other portion strike something unintentionally.
 
FlaMtnBkr said:
You want to make claims about a lock, then test the lock. LOL who wouldn't adjust their pivot screw. ;);););););););)

If you drive down the road and get a flat tire do you just keep driving? And would fixing the tire say anything about the engine under the hood? Would it somehow then favor the amount of horsepower of the engine to fix the flat? That rationale makes no sense and like I said proves nothing about the actual lock which is what you were supposed to be testing according to your praise of the Triad LOCK.
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Can I say it's like tightening you nuts of your wheels of your jeep every time you go off road.

3 subjected to roughly the same treatment, one came out almost unscathed, one had a tip snap and another had combination tip snap and lock failure. Like MORIMOTOM said, some can take it some can't.

I agree with one of the poster earlier that said that bigger balls for larger contact area is better as well as mentioning the pivot strength. Can't remember the posters name.

However I still maintain that a bit of wear is necessary for the BB in the BB-lock to seat properly.

However you got a point that for most users I'd actually tighten my pivot if I notice flex caused by looseness. Would have been nice to see another test where the pivot was tightened then spine whacked. I still maintain that spine whacking should be done first and after the BB has been given enough time to seat properly. However Ankerson has a point about out of the box ability.
 
JNewell said:
Two questions for you, Jim. These are totally neutral, good faith questions.

First, have you looked over (or even disassembled) the Manix to see whether there was any damage to, or failure of, the main lock components (tang, ball, cage, spring)?

Second, I've now watched quite a bunch of your videos and think I have a better context than I had earlier, but I do have a question, and this is an honest question. A lot of the tasks seem geared to bushcraft and/or survival sort of use. But bushcraft and survival knives are (or at least this has been my impression) always fixed blade knives. So my question is, basically, what's the rationale for these very tough workouts? Is it a desire to push the things really, really hard to see what happens, or is it to see if they are practically suited to bushcraft-type use, or something else? For the third time, I'm truly not trying to bait or trap you - just honestly curious, because you've obviously put tons or work, time and money into these projects.

Thanks for reading and any responses!
John
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I am not gonna take it apart until I hear back from Spyderco.

Personally I like tough knives. :thumbup:

The reason why is because I have broken so many knives in my life that I am happy when I find one or more than take really take some abuse. My personal reasoning is that the knife that I would have on me at the time can handle whatever task that I may have to complete at that time that would require a knife. Sometimes one doesn't have access to their tool box and the knife in my pocket or the fixed blade on my belt would handle it.
 
I think the videos are well done. It's nice to see what a knife can do. Also it's great to see someone testing knives for the love of knives and interest in performance. I killed a lot of folders in my time, mainly to learn about locks. (even before Cold Steel hired me on for R&D) The point breaking issue is no big deal, that can be designed out. My guess is the designers went for cutting potential over toughness, and thats fine. Like anything there is a compromise. I believe a "hard use" folder blade should be able to take light prying, that's just my opinion.
 
DemkoKnives said:
I think the videos are well done. It's nice to see what a knife can do. Also it's great to see someone testing knives for the love of knives and interest in performance. I killed a lot of folders in my time, mainly to learn about locks. (even before Cold Steel hired me on for R&D) The point breaking issue is no big deal, that can be designed out. My guess is the designers went for cutting potential over toughness, and thats fine. Like anything there is a compromise. I believe a "hard use" folder blade should be able to take light prying, that's just my opinion.
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Thanks Andrew. :)
 
I find it kind of interesting that all of the usual suspects who would normally come hysterically out of the woodwork to decry video taped knife abuse in the guise of testing are rather noticeably quiet on this one. No dramatic lamenting over the harm this is doing to the knife community, no personal attacks on the OP, no sarcastic monikers used like the "headless knife tester".

Just a sprinkling of some of the same old tired, "Use the right tool for the right job" (wish I could find the right job, and have the right tool with me at the time as well :D), and some of the, I am the center of the universe arguments like, "This is pointless since I would never do that to a knife."

Ankerson keep up the good work. Though I do think if a pivot is noticeably loose you're kind of handicapping things a bit.

:thumbup: to the knife donator as well.
 
theonew said:
I find it kind of interesting that all of the usual suspects who would normally come hysterically out of the woodwork to decry video taped knife abuse in the guise of testing are rather noticeably quiet on this one. No dramatic lamenting over the harm this is doing to the knife community, no personal attacks on the OP, no sarcastic monikers used like the "headless knife tester".

Just a sprinkling of some of the same old tired, "Use the right tool for the right job" (wish I could find the right job, and have the right tool with me at the time as well :D), and some of the, I am the center of the universe arguments like, "This is pointless since I would never do that to a knife."

Ankerson keep up the good work. Though I do think if a pivot is noticeably loose you're kind of handicapping things a bit.

:thumbup: to the knife donator as well.
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Nice, in a nutshell :)
 
DemkoKnives said:
I think the videos are well done. It's nice to see what a knife can do. Also it's great to see someone testing knives for the love of knives and interest in performance. I killed a lot of folders in my time, mainly to learn about locks. (even before Cold Steel hired me on for R&D) The point breaking issue is no big deal, that can be designed out. My guess is the designers went for cutting potential over toughness, and thats fine. Like anything there is a compromise. I believe a "hard use" folder blade should be able to take light prying, that's just my opinion.
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Do you have other models made with this lock and may be different steel?

Thanks, Vassili.
 
Ankerson,

While I am pretty sure that I will rarely use a knife as you do in these videos, I appreciate what you are doing.
Thanks,

Adam
 
singularity35 said:
Here's a link for the guys that are not convinced. I think Ankerson was quite fair and very credible, but if his manix 2 was a fluke, i'd be happy since I have a manix2 as well. :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=93B1mG1H1ck
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Same knife, very different result. I still trust my Manix 2

Manix 2 to Lawman it's like comparing a high performance sports car to a beat-all-you-want pick up truck. How about try some cutting/slicing performance differences?
 
LowTEC said:
Same knife, very different result. I still trust my Manix 2

Manix 2 to Lawman it's like comparing a high performance sports car to a beat-all-you-want pick up truck. How about try some cutting/slicing performance differences?
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:thumbup:
 
LowTEC said:
Same knife, very different result. I still trust my Manix 2

Manix 2 to Lawman it's like comparing a high performance sports car to a beat-all-you-want pick up truck. How about try some cutting/slicing performance differences?
Click to expand...
This was not a cutting test. Knives were tested for toughness and reliability. The OP said it time and time again. Why can't people read?
 
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