Spyderco Manix 2 and Benchmade Griptillian - Next 2 test knives

[Siggyhk]

I guess I over-thought that statemant.
It just seems to me that some are against better safety devices on things with razor-edges, and needle-points.

 

[Josh K]

Your beloved Spyderco failed a hard use test. Get over it.

I don't think you quite understand what I'm saying.

 

[hardheart]

I guess I over-thought that statemant.
It just seems to me that some are against better safety devices on things with razor-edges, and needle-points.

I think it is more that some don't think they are necessary, and some don't think some of the actions in the video are realistic applications of knives, fixed or folding.

I'm of the 'hey, why not beef it up if it doesn't affect cutting performance' camp, but I also carry plenty of slipjoints. Also, I honestly have never had to do anything too rough with any knife while working offshore, being a shadetree mechanic, doing woodwork & metal fab at home, in a short stint as a police officer, during any hurricane, or in military field training.

I don't think you would have to worry about a folder in a wilderness survival scenario, since this equates to 'everyday life, but using only stone tools' for ancient man. It would take an urban/industrial catastrophe, with no other tools available, to need to push a knife too far.

Laziness or curiosity are probably the two biggest knife-breakers out there.

 

[Kaizen1]

I didn't get to say thanks to Ankerson for doing this:thumbup:.The Manix 2 should be tough enough for anyone who actually uses the knife rather than people purposefully attempting to abuse it, so there really shouldn't be a problem with it's fans and the results of the video.

So the Lawman can take more abuse, so what? For the people that get reassurance from such things, there's a great knife for them. I happen to like to know that it can take such abuse. Some people don't buy knives for that purpose. Some people realize that they will never use their knife in this manner and therefore don't go looking for a knife that can meet the criteria of "Jim's abuse." There are many other features many of us look for in knives outside of "hard use" actions. There's ergonomics, ease of locking/disengagement of lock, handle/blade materials, blade shape, etc.

What doesn't make much sense to me is when the people who claim to not care about these types of tests seem to get angry or attempt to devalue the opinion of those who do enjoy seeing them. Seriously, what's with the "I-don't care-about-this-and-you're-ignorant-for-not-agreeing-with-me" bs? It's perfectly fine to state why you don't value these types of videos or "tests." It just seem rather immature to try and make other feel bad because they actually enjoy the videos or take some of the data into consideration for their personal use knives.

 

[dsmegst]

While I'm surprised and a bit disappointed that the Manix II failed the tests, I'm certainly not worried about the durability and utility of the knife.

If the intent of the lock was to create a bomb proof lock up, then it would consist of a much larger ball bearing with metal to metal contact for all surfaces. The pivot screws would need to be beefed up also.

The test shows just how far that particular knife could go before failure and I certainly appreciate that someone else took the time to do it. I wouldn't speak for the design of the knife unless more knives were tested. It does prove that certain tasks calls for a fixed blade and that's about all it proves.

I own 6 Manix IIs in different flavors and I really like them still.

 

[stabman]

I think the Grptilian held up really well.
I've had enough fixed blade where the tip snapped off when I was younger; I ended up with a collection of sharp edged screw-drivers in my later teen years.
Now I don't pry wood with knives, at least not the tip.
Nice to see that the lock did what I expected it to...stay locked.

 

[arjung]

Thanks for taking the time to do these tests. As a new(ish) owner of a Carpenter steel Manix 2 this is surprising. Frankly while the tip prying and the batoning can be called gross abuse, the first test wasn't. The fact that it developed that much blade play from the cutting wood is definitely not what I was expecting.

On a side note I was planning to pick up a new CS Recon 1 tanto soon, and this might have just convinced me to bite the bullet (when I get my next pay of course)

 

[rycen]

Sorry if I missed this but did you try to tighten the pivot and reproduce the "test" ?

 

[philwar]

I don't think you quite understand what I'm saying.

Maybe not, but I understand your feelings got hurt, and you wanna take it out on something or someone.
I own 7 Spyderco folders, 2 more on the way, plus a few Byrds. I like the brand, I really do. But I own only 1 that could conceivably be called a hard use folder, and that's the Manix I (and its tip would snap 100%). There's a Gayle Bradley on the way and I'm sure it can't do what the CS AL does.
Spyderco has other priorities. They could outdo Cold Steel if they wanted to, but they don't want to.
I can live with that. I'm sure you can too. For hard use I have other folders - yes, and for even harder use I have fixed blades too.

 

[freq18hz]

Personally I think this whole hard use thing is ridiculous. What kind of hard use do you really need to put a knife through anyway? It's cool that the OP made a video, but to debate the strength of folders to this degree seems silly to me. I agree, just get a fixed blade. If you need a to pry, get a pry bar. There is some kind of machismo or something behind this where people seem to think that the strongest possible lock makes a better knife. It's kind of like saying that a tank is the most durable formula one car design. My 2 cents.

-Freq

 

[Moondrop]

I don't think you would have to worry about a folder in a wilderness survival scenario, since this equates to 'everyday life, but using only stone tools' for ancient man. It would take an urban/industrial catastrophe, with no other tools available, to need to push a knife too far.

And here is one:

http://articles.latimes.com/2002/apr/06/news/mn-36555

That's what I think of whenever I think of an extreme situation. Unique situation, but who'd have expected to find him/herself in such a situation? The arguments about what a folding knife is for or will ever be used for or having the "right tool for the job" boggle my mind. Nobody can ever foresee every possibility. That wasn't *even* a knife in that situation...

 

[philwar]

Personally I think this whole hard use thing is ridiculous.

That's cool, that means you can buy any folder and never have to worry about such issues.

It's kind of like saying that a tank is the most durable formula one car design. My 2 cents.

Erm... no. That's not it at all. A tank doesn't drive all that well. What we (the hard-use folder fans) are looking for is a folder that does everything as well as (let's say) an Endura, but is ALSO tough. In your analogy: it has to be able to win a GP, AND it has to do well off-road.
With cars, this is impossible. With knives, it is not.

 

[stabman]

Personally I think this whole hard use thing is ridiculous. What kind of hard use do you really need to put a knife through anyway? It's cool that the OP made a video, but to debate the strength of folders to this degree seems silly to me. I agree, just get a fixed blade. If you need a to pry, get a pry bar. There is some kind of machismo or something behind this where people seem to think that the strongest possible lock makes a better knife. It's kind of like saying that a tank is the most durable formula one car design. My 2 cents.

-Freq

Th only reason to buy a locking folder as opposed to a slip-joint is FOR the mechanism which keeps it from closing on your fingers, hence the interest in LOCK strength.
Now, I never use my folder for that sort of thing; for batonning I use a fixed blade, except for 1 inch thick pine boards occasionally with the SmF.
However, I DO like knowing the limits of the strength of the lock on my folders, especially if someone else is paying for it.
Not seeing the point of it all is like not seeing the use of crash testing; "I'M not going to be in any accidents, so I don't CARE how well the air-bags deploy or the crumple zones operate."
It is different in some respects, but similar in the idea that testing the limits has no utility.

 

[jill jackson]

Cold Steel lucked out when it acquired the Triad lock and it's undeniably a really strong one. Without it I don't believe the AL would fare nearly so well. I'm fairly certain it won't be the last "super lock " we see from the main companies.
I know many other highly respected knife models that people have used with complete satisfaction for years would not hold up to this "hard use". Most people are not using folders this way.
Go ahead and test a Buck 110 in this manner. (they are inexpensive enough to try a couple) I don't think it would hold up at all, despite it's reputation as a "hard use" folder and giving people year after year of great service. I could be fooled but my experience with them doesn't support it.
I'm not picking on the 110 many models probably would not withstand this test. The Tri-ad-lock is a very strong lock and that was proven to me by seeing the video with hundreds of pounds on the blade's lock. (Spartan)

 

[stabman]

Cold Steel lucked out when it acquired the Tri-ad lock and it's undeniably a really strong one. Without it I don't believe the AL would fair nearly so well. I'm fairly certain it won't be the last "super lock " we see from the main companies.

Correct on all counts, maam.:thumbup:

 

[Josh K]

Maybe not, but I understand your feelings got hurt, and you wanna take it out on something or someone.
I own 7 Spyderco folders, 2 more on the way, plus a few Byrds. I like the brand, I really do. But I own only 1 that could conceivably be called a hard use folder, and that's the Manix I (and its tip would snap 100%). There's a Gayle Bradley on the way and I'm sure it can't do what the CS AL does.
Spyderco has other priorities. They could outdo Cold Steel if they wanted to, but they don't want to.
I can live with that. I'm sure you can too. For hard use I have other folders - yes, and for even harder use I have fixed blades too.

Where do you come off talking about my feelings? This doesn't have anything to do with feelings.

I wasn't sure how either knife would respond to this, and I'm positive that shaving wood and then failing a spine whack is not usual.

 

[freq18hz]

That's cool, that means you can buy any folder and never have to worry about such issues.


Erm... no. That's not it at all. A tank doesn't drive all that well. What we (the hard-use folder fans) are looking for is a folder that does everything as well as (let's say) an Endura, but is ALSO tough. In your analogy: it has to be able to win a GP, AND it has to do well off-road.
With cars, this is impossible. With knives, it is not.

That's absolutely not true though. A folding knife is designed for one thing, and one thing only. To save space, compared to a fixed blade. No sheath required. That's it, nothing more. If space/pocket-ability was no issue folding pocket knives would never exist.

So tell me how it makes sense, to overbuild a folding knife so that it can withstand abusive tests that the tool was never designed for in the first place? Why do I want a big heavy lock 8oz or heavier folder when I can buy a fixed blade that will be infinitely stronger, and lighter weight? Let's be honest, all these knives are tough. You have to sit on top of a log for minutes at a time specifically trying to make their mechanisms fail on order to get them to do so. In the real world, this really wouldn't happen.

Th only reason to buy a locking folder as opposed to a slip-joint is FOR the mechanism which keeps it from closing on your fingers, hence the interest in LOCK strength.
Now, I never use my folder for that sort of thing; for batonning I use a fixed blade, except for 1 inch thick pine boards occasionally with the SmF.
However, I DO like knowing the limits of the strength of the lock on my folders, especially if someone else is paying for it.
Not seeing the point of it all is like not seeing the use of crash testing; "I'M not going to be in any accidents, so I don't CARE how well the air-bags deploy or the crumple zones operate."
It is different in some respects, but similar in the idea that testing the limits has no utility.

I can understand the appeal of seeing something pushed to its limits, but to compare it to other models and then assigning some kind of merit based off the tests? It seems incredibly ridiculous to me.

For instance: You can go out and put an iPhone in a blender. Will it blend? Eventually. But when it does, are you going to compare it to how well the HTC EVO or some other phone blends, and then decide to buy the phone based off that test? You'd probably say "only an idiot would do that." I think its the same thing here.

FYI I've gone back to slip joints, and this past weekend I used one incredibly hard. It took the punishment just fine. No missing fingers, nothing. But then again, I used the knife hard, as a knife, to make fire. I didn't stick it in a tree and use it as a diving board.

-Freq

 

[marthinus]

Well said jill!

 

[SSonnentag]

I appreciate your hard use test. The lock on the Manix 2 is a disappointment to me, and a bit surprising. It failed after nothing more than a very short bout of woodcarving. I did notice though that with both the Benchmade and the Spyderco you were prying the wood off the stick at the end of many of your carving strokes, where with the CS you were pushing straight through without the twisting action. Other than that observation, I feel this was a pretty fair test and definitely shows the weakness of both the Manix 2's lock and blade tip. I think the tip of the Benchmade held up fairly well and I wouldn't fault it much for snapping.

Anyway, thanks for taking the time to do the test and post the results.

Shawn

 

[stabman]

I can understand the appeal of seeing something pushed to its limits, but to compare it to other models and then assigning some kind of merit based off the tests? It seems incredibly ridiculous to me.

-Freq

It depends on sort of "merit" one is assigning.
Does a strong lock make the knife automatically better? Not if it doesn't cut well.
Does the ability to resist tip snapping make it automatically a better knife? Not necessarily; screwdriver tips don't break easily, but they are a terrible knife.
However, if one is testing lock strength, and finds that the locks on certain knives are better, and assigns merit in lock strength to those knives, then the assigning of merit is valid rather than silly.
It all depends on what merit is being assigned due to what tests, and how well they correlate to each other.