Spyderco Manix 2 and Benchmade Griptillian - Next 2 test knives

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Regardless of outcome, this is still one video. I doubt the tip can handle much heavier prying, but I'm not sold on the lock being too weak. Ankerson's video pretty clearly showed THAT M2 failing miserably, but other videos(vash hash I think?) show the M2 doing quite well in equally challenging uses. What does that mean? Does one video negate the other or vice versa? I dunno, but don't think so. It seems to me some guys are taking this way too seriously on one side, while others are getting jollies out of watching them squirm and take some satisfaction in seeing Spyderco knocked down a peg or two.
Such is life on BF:D
 
stabman said:
So, Ankerson's tests do not reflect the strength of the ball bearing lock, but DO reflect the strength of back-locks, even though only one knife of each was tested?
Odd.
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Back locks have never been known as one of the top locks for strength. Do a search if you want. There have been many tests for a long time showing they are more a medium use lock. Ankerson's test just re-affirmed that. The ball bearing lock has been tested else where and with great results. This time there was a loose pivot caused by the blade being twisted out on the wood cuts and because the knife was new and had not had time to seat itself. FYI the Lawman was not exposed to these same twist outs which put horizontal pressure on the blade/lock, just watch the videos. The loose tolerances from the loose pivot are a very plausible explanation of what lead to the failure. If you want to make things even, then take every knife and loosen the pivot so the blade moves back and forth. Then go test the knives and tell me what kind of conclusion you can come to.

Ankerson said:
OK here is the bottom line:

I nor anyone else knows why the M2 failed at this point and anything is pure speculation until the Eric Glesser inspects the knife. ;)

The truth is whatever Sal or Eric Glesser says it is after the knife is inspected.:)
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I don't know why the font was an inch tall, leave your glasses at home this morning? :)

Exactly! Yet person after person keeps piling on and saying well this lock is no good, it's not a hard use knife, it's not up to all the other locks out there, etc, etc. Why is just about every person coming to a conclusion before anything is known? As far as I'm concerned this test will never mean anything. A new test with a properly adjusted pivot will be able to provide some meaningful information, to me at least. It seems many have already made up their mind about it.


philwar said:
Don't be so sensitive man. You respond to yet ANOTHER person who claims the tested M2 must have been defective. What are the odds of that? What would THAT say about Spyderco. They don't MAKE defective stuff. I'd say that is a positive quality.
Sheez.


You accuse others of taking positions when nothing is known for certain, yet here you go (AGAIN) claiming to know the truth.


Yep, confident, based on the same info we all have, yet you're confident when AFAIK everybody else reserves judgment on the cause of the M2's failure. Who knows, it might have been defective... :eek:


Give it up. You're so angry now you lost the ability to make sense. Calm down, take a few deep breaths.
Then tell us how you really feel. ;)


A cheap and simple linerless FRN backlock withstood a treatment that the M2 couldn't take. The Voyager was ruined in the process but at least it didn't fail.
And you get upset.
So what is this really about?
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I'm not being sensitive and I'm not upset about any of this. I find it somewhat amusing to read what people take away from the video when this is one knife with what I consider a problem. It seems people like to read just the pieces that they want to and not take everything that is said and known into context. A loose pivot with a couple millimeters of horizontal slop is a problem that was obvious. But a loose pivot is not a problem with the design of the lock, the manufacturing process, or the materials used in the knife. It is a screw that got loose because it lacked thread locker. NOT a design or manufacturing or material DEFECT. OK? If it was something else that we can not see in the video nothing can be said about that yet but it can be said about a loose pivot.

I also have not said I know the truth. All I have said, prove me wrong if I said otherwise, is that there was an issue with this particular knife that could have easily lead to it breaking. I won't develop any opinion until Spyderco has a chance to go over the knife, or another knife with proper pivot tension is tested. In fact I have said multiple times that if there is something bizarre going on with the lock and it consistently fails I will be one of the first people to admit there is a problem. But looking at it from an engineering stand point there should not be a problem and it should be able to take a fair amount of abuse.

And I am confident in my knife. Because I have used it pretty hard and I have seen videos of people using it very hard, more along the lines of abuse. Personal experience and additional information on other knives is where I get my confidence in the lock. Again, I'm not angry at all. If I speak my mind and call someone on something that does not make me upset. I am really curious about what I'm not making sense about because of all my built up anger and rage. Maybe you can enlighten me since you like to pick apart what I say line by line.

And how is a knife being ruined also able to stand up to the test? Isn't the test done to see how the knife holds up? And wouldn't destroying the knife basically mean it didn't hold up a.k.a. failed?

I'm sure all this will be picked apart and taken out of context as well. Whatever. Guess that means my blood is boiling and I can't think straight. :thumbup:
 
FlaMtnBkr said:
Back locks have never been known as one of the top locks for strength. Do a search if you want. There have been many tests for a long time showing they are more a medium use lock.
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Like the original, the Chinook 3 is an ace in the field or as a martial arts knife where hard-use is a certainty. Lock strength requirements are higher for an outdoor or martial arts folder so the Chinook 3’s back-lock is one of the strongest found on any Spyderco folder

But what do they know?;)
 
stabman said:
Like the original, the Chinook 3 is an ace in the field or as a martial arts knife where hard-use is a certainty. Lock strength requirements are higher for an outdoor or martial arts folder so the Chinook 3’s back-lock is one of the strongest found on any Spyderco folder

But what do they know?;)
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As I said before:

FlaMtnBkr said:
They can be over built to be pretty strong, but the design just does not deal with the forces in a efficient way. Smaller pins have to be used that take all the force and mating surfaces are used that can easily slip.
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So why does Spyderco not put it on all their heavy duty and MBC knives? The CBBL and compression lock must just be a marketing gimmick. I really wish Sal would share more of his test results.

So if they are so heavy duty, then why did Ankerson's that held together and worked like it was supposed to, basically fall apart by the end of the test with massive amounts of slop?

I can go find videos and other people's opinions stating the same thing but I really don't feel like arguing. That's why the magical Triad lock was developed to give strength to the back lock that has been around for decades, because it didn't need it.
 
FlaMtnBkr said:
That's why the magical Triad lock was developed to give strength to the back lock that has been around for decades, because it didn't need it.
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The "magical Tri-Ad" lock is just a beefy back-lock with a stop-pin to get rid of the inevitable (and slightly annoying) up-and-down wiggle lock-backs are prone to. That's it.
It has to deal with the issue of pins as well. No magic fix.
The lock-back which ALMOST failed the test isn't the toughest one on the market either.
I don't get what your beef is, and you obviously have one with the increasingly snarky sarcasm which is creeping into your posts.
Geeze, I'd think YOU designed the ball-lock or the Tri-Ad if I didn't know better, the way you're going on about it...
 
stabman said:
The "magical Tri-Ad" lock is just a beefy back-lock with a stop-pin to get rid of the inevitable (and slightly annoying) up-and-down wiggle lock-backs are prone to. That's it.
It has to deal with the issue of pins as well. No magic fix.
The lock-back which ALMOST failed the test isn't the toughest one on the market either.
I don't get what your beef is, and you obviously have one with the increasingly snarky sarcasm which is creeping into your posts.
Geeze, I'd think YOU designed the ball-lock or the Tri-Ad if I didn't know better, the way you're going on about it...
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The Triad lock does quite a bit more than remove up and down wiggle. Maybe someone else can explain it to you.
 
Great. I'd like to hear what they have to say about it.

Thanks for all the hard work Ankerson.
 
wongKI said:
Great. I'd like to hear what they have to say about it.

Thanks for all the hard work Ankerson.
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I wouldn't expect to hear anything like today or tomorrow. ;)

I would think they have a lot more to worry about than a knife that I tested.

I am not that big a deal, I am just a normal guy who has too many knives and time on his hands. :o
 
I've never been a Spyderco fanboy, never owned one. I'm sure they are fine tools, just always thought they were fugly and didn't much care for the feel of the few I've handled. I do have an Axis (Mini-Barrage) and like it very much.

That said that it looked to me like that Manix sliced through that chunk of wood like it was butter.
 
JAM said:
I've never been a Spyderco fanboy, never owned one. I'm sure they are fine tools, just always thought they were fugly and didn't much care for the feel of the few I've handled. I do have an Axis (Mini-Barrage) and like it very much.

That said that it looked to me like that Manix sliced through that chunk of wood like it was butter.
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The factory edge was like 30 degrees inclusive and the blade grind was very fine. That helped a lot in the slicing of the wood.
 
I would have to say the CS lawman was the clear winner in the whittling task.

For the Manix 1, I still can't believe some would suggest the original Manix lockback would pass the spine
whack test.Of the 3 different Manix 1's I looked at, they all had tonnes of vertical blade and not a tiny amount which would be considered
normal.I know for one the more blade play there is the likely hood of damage get
exponentially higher.It's like having a front door which does not close properly and there's a like 1/2 an inch gap and someone
kicks it open on the first try.Instead,if the door was installed properly it would/may of
taken several more kicks.

I still believe,it was a loose blade that was the cause of the Manix 2 failure which lead to the collapse of the vunerable plastic CBB cage.Like I said before I also think the fasteners need to beefed up.
 
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The lock/pivot failure was quite surprising... Though I believe the Manix's finger choil design would likely prevent the blade from slicing the user's fingers in the event of any failures. (Both using the choil, or with the index finger only in the G10 grove itself.)
 
Ankerson said:
I wouldn't expect to hear anything like today or tomorrow. ;)

I would think they have a lot more to worry about than a knife that I tested.

I am not that big a deal, I am just a normal guy who has too many knives and time on his hands. :o
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I can tell you what went wrong with that. That piece you had most likely had an extra washer. With the new bushing system that Sal is using on the Golden made knives, ( think Sebenza ) it needs to be assembled correctly. The BB lock was designed with high tolerances in mind and it's actually refreshing for its class. Make sure there are only 2 washers and it will be flawless at that point, for it is a very well engineered lock. I had one with the same problem. I took the extra washer out, and its back in spec. An oversight from the factory not a flaw.
 
proguide said:
I can tell you what went wrong with that. That piece you had most likely had an extra washer. With the new bushing system that Sal is using on the Golden made knives, ( think Sebenza ) it needs to be assembled correctly. The BB lock was designed with high tolerances in mind and it's actually refreshing for its class. Make sure there are only 2 washers and it will be flawless at that point, for it is a very well engineered lock. I had one with the same problem. I took the extra washer out, and its back in spec. An oversight from the factory not a flaw.
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I haven't heard back from Spyderco yet so we will see. :)
 
theonew said:
I find it kind of interesting that all of the usual suspects who would normally come hysterically out of the woodwork to decry video taped knife abuse in the guise of testing are rather noticeably quiet on this one. No dramatic lamenting over the harm this is doing to the knife community, no personal attacks on the OP, no sarcastic monikers used like the "headless knife tester".

Just a sprinkling of some of the same old tired, "Use the right tool for the right job" (wish I could find the right job, and have the right tool with me at the time as well :D), and some of the, I am the center of the universe arguments like, "This is pointless since I would never do that to a knife."

Ankerson keep up the good work. Though I do think if a pivot is noticeably loose you're kind of handicapping things a bit.

:thumbup: to the knife donator as well.
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I just spent an hour of my life on this thread. This fellow sums it up in one succinct post. :thumbup:

Tostig
 
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