Spyderco Manix 2 and Benchmade Griptillian - Next 2 test knives

[flipe8]

I thought about this today, I wont know if I would classify a CRK under "hard use" or a knife designed for "hard cutting"?

Hard use: batoning like Ankerson is the extreme
Hard cutting: just short of batoning like Ankerson.

What do you think?

I'm probably thinking along the way you're putting it. I think it can probably handle "hard-use" to an extent, but that's not the market it's aimed at.

 

[Ankerson]

Here is a chart of all the knives I have tested sofar and how they did rated 1-5 in stages of the testing.

3 and above is passing.

So

18-23 = OK, should be fine, but might need some work after heavy use.

24-29 = Hard use knife, kick butt and use the heck out it and don't worry.

30 = Hard Use knife, bullet Proof end of the world pound on it forever and don't worry.

Total scores.

Recon 1 = 30

CQC = 26

Voyager = 25

ZT 0301 = 30

RW-1 = 30

Manix 2 = 7

Griptillian = 22

Lawman = 30

 

[philwar]

Here is a chart of all the knives I have tested sofar and how they did rated 1-5 in stages of the testing.

3 and above is passing.

So

18-23 = OK, should be fine, but might need some work after heavy use.

24-29 = Hard use knife, kick butt and use the heck out it and don't worry.

30 = Hard Use knife, bullet Proof end of the world pound on it forever and don't worry.

Total scores.

Recon 1 = 30

CQC = 26

Voyager = 25

ZT 0301 = 30

RW-1 = 30

Manix 2 = 7

Griptillian = 22

Lawman = 30

Hey man, you're not going all scientific and statistics on me now are you?

 

[Ankerson]

Hey man, you're not going all scientific and statistics on me now are you?

No, it's just a general overview of what I have done so far.

Nothing set in stone or the absolute end of anything, just my impressions.

 

[marthinus]

I'm probably thinking along the way you're putting it. I think it can probably handle "hard-use" to an extent, but that's not the market it's aimed at.

Agreed.

No, it's just a general overview of what I have done so far.

Nothing set in stone or the absolute end of anything, just my impressions.

Thanks for your opinion on these and your effort doing these.

 

[MORIMOTOM]

i like the chart. while somewhat subjective, it puts a rating to the videos.

except in the chart, the recon only got a 4 for pivot. mistake?

 

[Ankerson]

i like the chart. while somewhat subjective, it puts a rating to the videos.

except in the chart, the recon only got a 4 for pivot. mistake?

That's just because it loosened up a little, but wasn't a big deal.

 

[MORIMOTOM]

That's just because it loosened up a little, but wasn't a big deal.

what?????



looks like i won't be trusting my recon!!


and that would make the rating a 29, not a 30. yes, i am the math police too.

 

[Ankerson]

what?????



looks like i won't be trusting my recon!!


and that would make the rating a 29, not a 30. yes, i am the math police too.

I was talking VERY minor then it all went away durning the test.

You wouldn't have even noticed it unless you were pulling on it hard like I was.

 

[Eric Glesser]

After reviewing the video, doing our own tests, and receiving Mr. Ankerson’s knife, here are my thoughts.

Mr. Ankerson’s test has areas that can certainly be scrutinized.

Taking a knife you know has loose pivots and hitting it hard in multiple directions to test the lock can have very adverse affects. I wouldn’t call this a hard use test, but OK.

The knife was never inspected before the knife was tested. Is everything in order?

Also, usually when a knife defeats hitting it more times over and over doesn’t change the fact the locks been broken, just adds to the drama.

We received the Manix2 sent by Mr. Ankerson, it leaves many more questions than answers.

To begin with, he sent the Manix2 wrapped in the obituaries section of the paper. Personally I think it was intentional and had motives. Take it as you will.

We unwrapped it and were very surprised. It’s unclear based on the knife sent in, as to what failed during “Hard Use Test”. The knife was beaten up much more than the video shows, there seems to be more to the story then what appears.

We know whatever evidence was left after the video Mr. Ankerson’s shot, was destroyed before he sent the knife to us.

All this being said, the video is what it is.

Our in-house testing is done with tight tolerance equipment and variables carefully considered. Computer grafted results over grouped samples, filed and discussed, reengineered and rechecked for weaknesses, discussed, reengineered, improved, retested and on and on. We carry them and personally abuse them. Take them beyond their limits just to know and improve. Our small group of people working on these products have over 100 combined years of day in and day out nothing but knives.

We put vast amounts of time, energy and money into our testing with sophisticated equipment. We make some of our models reach what we call heavy duty or hard use based on our tests.

“Overstrike Test” -

We are not sure the Value of this test. After testing the Manix2, multiple overstrikes “in sequence” will destroy the lock. It wasn’t designed or intended for it and we don’t endorse it. We are making an immediate small improvement in the future production to withstand better in the multi overstrike, but again we’re not sure of the value of the test, unless it’s a destruction test.

Loose Pivots –

Locktite, which we use on many models, has its pros and cons. Here are some things to consider with locktite - how much during application, strength grade, part design, and longevity. Each of those has many other variables to consider. There’s an entire art to just locktite. In the end, it’s only one time use, once the knife has been unscrewed you’ve broken the locktite.

Recently we’ve gone to nylon patches on our screws for some knives. (M2) We’ve done this because we’re looking for consistency, reliability, ease of use. The nylon patch offers many of these things and grips well on retightening. We’re now looking at stronger patches to improve the grip over extreme use.

After viewing the video…..where a log was turned into a matchstick (just kidding). I feel this is a good lesson in keeping and maintaining tight screws/pins for any folding knife especially when attempting extreme abuse.

Thank you Mr. Ankerson for recently becoming a new member of our Spyderco forum and being a Spyderco user.

We still trust our Manix 2 for heavy duty real world use.

Thx Much- Eric

 

[marthinus]

Thank you for the response Eric. Greatly appreciated.

 

[LorenzoL]

The obituaries thing was certainly not a classy touch.

 

[AF]

Nice response Eric!
I too have wondered about the overstrike test. What's the idea behind this test?
My takeaway from the testing was that the pivot loosened quickly and the lock won't work with a loose pivot.

 

[Ankerson]

After reviewing the video, doing our own tests, and receiving Mr. Ankerson’s knife, here are my thoughts.

Mr. Ankerson’s test has areas that can certainly be scrutinized.

Taking a knife you know has loose pivots and hitting it hard in multiple directions to test the lock can have very adverse affects. I wouldn’t call this a hard use test, but OK.

The knife was never inspected before the knife was tested. Is everything in order?

Also, usually when a knife defeats hitting it more times over and over doesn’t change the fact the locks been broken, just adds to the drama.

We received the Manix2 sent by Mr. Ankerson, it leaves many more questions than answers.

To begin with, he sent the Manix2 wrapped in the obituaries section of the paper. Personally I think it was intentional and had motives. Take it as you will.

We unwrapped it and were very surprised. It’s unclear based on the knife sent in, as to what failed during “Hard Use Test”. The knife was beaten up much more than the video shows, there seems to be more to the story then what appears.

We know whatever evidence was left after the video Mr. Ankerson’s shot, was destroyed before he sent the knife to us.

All this being said, the video is what it is.

Our in-house testing is done with tight tolerance equipment and variables carefully considered. Computer grafted results over grouped samples, filed and discussed, reengineered and rechecked for weaknesses, discussed, reengineered, improved, retested and on and on. We carry them and personally abuse them. Take them beyond their limits just to know and improve. Our small group of people working on these products have over 100 combined years of day in and day out nothing but knives.

We put vast amounts of time, energy and money into our testing with sophisticated equipment. We make some of our models reach what we call heavy duty or hard use based on our tests.

“Overstrike Test” -

We are not sure the Value of this test. After testing the Manix2, multiple overstrikes “in sequence” will destroy the lock. It wasn’t designed or intended for it and we don’t endorse it. We are making an immediate small improvement in the future production to withstand better in the multi overstrike, but again we’re not sure of the value of the test, unless it’s a destruction test.

Loose Pivots –

Locktite, which we use on many models, has its pros and cons. Here are some things to consider with locktite - how much during application, strength grade, part design, and longevity. Each of those has many other variables to consider. There’s an entire art to just locktite. In the end, it’s only one time use, once the knife has been unscrewed you’ve broken the locktite.

Recently we’ve gone to nylon patches on our screws for some knives. (M2) We’ve done this because we’re looking for consistency, reliability, ease of use. The nylon patch offers many of these things and grips well on retightening. We’re now looking at stronger patches to improve the grip over extreme use.

After viewing the video…..where a log was turned into a matchstick (just kidding). I feel this is a good lesson in keeping and maintaining tight screws/pins for any folding knife especially when attempting extreme abuse.

Thank you Mr. Ankerson for recently becoming a new member of our Spyderco forum and being a Spyderco user.

We still trust our Manix 2 for heavy duty real world use.

Thx Much- Eric

Eric,

Thanks for the response. :thumbup:

From what you posted it seems the Over Strikes broke the lock, that's good information to know in the future. :thumbup:

It's good to know that you are working on redesigning the lock in the future, it will only make the Manix 2 and even better knife than it already is.

I didn't do anything to the knife other than what I posted in this thread and it still looked brand new to me other than a few light scratches on the blade from cutting the wood.

That's all great information for current and future customers of Spyderco. :thumbup:

I didn't notice what sections of the paper I wrapped it in, there was more than one piece so I don't know what you were implying there.


Jim

 

[jill jackson]

I didn't notice what sections of the paper I wrapped it in, there was more than one piece so I don't know what you were implying there.


Jim

I got he was implying that you did it to be a wise-ass.
(I'm fairly certain everyone else did as well)

 

[Ankerson]

I got he was implying that you did it to be a wise-ass.
(I'm fairly certain everyone else did as well)

I used like 4 sheets of newspaper and Bubble wrap and made a cardboard sheath for the blade....

So I didn't read what sections I wrapped it in.... LOL

 

[Steven Andrews]

Ankerson may have deliberately wrapped the knife it in the obituaries to be a wise-ass, it may have been an innocent coincidence. Only he knows .

What does Spyderco gain by describing the packaging the knife was returned in? "Shiny footprints" works both ways.

 

[STR]

Overstrikes can happen in real world use more so than spine whacks so to me they are more valid than a spine whack or even a spine tap is and Spyderco taps the spine so why the objection to an overstrike? At least you are trying to beef it up to correct for it though, in your defense. That much is good. I disagree with the stance that this test is invalid though as I feel there are times with this type of knife that an overstrike can certainly occur in some uses, like making small kindling or shavings when the knife suddenly goes through faster than you expected and you hit it in an overstrike. Heck I've done that myself on more than one occasion. I think five overstrikes is a valid test that most well made harder use knives should be able to take. Jim didn't wail away on them with full arm swings after all and certainly not with the force one overstrike would have if you smacked it good after putting some ummmph into a full arm slice through a piece of wood to make shavings!

Second, I don't think when someone taps a blade spine in testing and the lock defeats that this automatically means you should stop doing that test just because the lock defeated. Far from it. I have found many cases where a knife I was testing, be it a liner lock or another type of lock, defeated on the first tap that it did not defeat on the ones that followed with no rhyme or reason as to why this was the case. I've also read of issues where others including Cliff Stamp, Joe Talamadge and other legitimate field testers have found this to be the case where for no apparent reason a knife that did well on this test time and time again suddenly defeated only to then proceed to once again do well from that point on as if nothing happened. Some lock types like the liner lock seem particularly prone to this but we would not even know this if everyone stopped after the first defeat and called that phase of the test over.

Lastly in a real world situation, which I feel is what Jim was trying to convey, for the most part and also to create a format or a sequence of the same tests from one knife model to another, that to my knowledge each knife was tested very much the same way and fairly. What did he do on that Manix, five overstrikes? That is not all that many. I also don't know that the pivot was responsible for that defeat because a little blade play in a knife is not usually enough to cause one to have a lock issue. Do I really need to point out that in the field one may not have their pocket tools available to them to tighten the pivot back up just because it loosens up during the first uses one puts it to?

If say, you were camping for the weekend? Is one supposed to run home and get their tool kit if they didn't happen to bring it just because their pivot loosened up some? No of course not. Neither should they have to set the knife aside and not use it again all weekend and baby it just because the pivot is loose when its sold as a harder use tactical knife. I think his test conveys what can happen in real world situations quite well. The Manix was not the only knife that the pivot loosened up on in testing. The pivot loosened up on the CQC13 also and it did okay? I'd have to re-watch but I believe the pivot loosened on others also.

STR

 

[MORIMOTOM]

ill go ahead and throw this out there now.

the 13 tested belongs to me, is dated 2005 and has the "thin" liners and lock.

all the pivot screws on my emersons, including the 13, are put in place with blue loctite. i do this, obviously, so the pivot will not self-adjust in most instances.

i have no doubt that jim's testing loosened the screw on the 13, loctite notwithstanding. impacts and vibrations will affect screw threads.

but total lock failure from a loose pivot? if i'm reading str's post correctly, that the loose pivot cannot be the only reason for the failure, then i agree. though it is an aggravating factor without a doubt.


i still like eric and spyderco, still like my manix 2, but i am pleased to know what it is capable of doing or not doing. i don't like it any less, and i accept that any design has its limitations.


thx for the post and results eric!

 

[tomcrx]

The only thing i did not like about the tests is it seems you where prying more in the "wood cutting" tests with the manix and griptilian than the CS and ZT. This lateral stress would induce more side to side play and could be the reason it showed up so early in testing with these two