Spyderco Manix 2 and Benchmade Griptillian - Next 2 test knives

[MikeC]

If your using knives with any kind of frequency your going to have an over strike or over strike type incident. I am having a hard time with the people who say this is abuse and not use. Where do you live, have spent in signiciant time out of doors, hunting, fishing, diving, camping, working on property say cutting timber, bush hogging, putting up deer stands, clearing shooting lanes, opening feed sacks, etc.? Because if you have then you have had some type of over strike or over strike type incident.

 

[STR]

I really don't understand all the focus on the overstrikes anyway. The spine whacks are what defeated and ruined the lock not the overstrikes. The first overstrikes, five of them passed no problem at all and the lock worked as it is supposed to. Whats the problem there? Jim didn't see a problem if there was one after the first five overstrikes! It wasn't until the spine whacks that the lock showed signs of some weak areas and started defeating with ease. Spyderco says they test for this.

The Para 2 is shipping with some lateral blade play right out of the box. No amount of tightening the pivot can alleviate it. I've read a number of reports of it now due to the bushing set up in the pivot. If blade play is an issue with the locks I guess some others got out the door then? What are we to make of this? Will it cause the locks to be less effective?

Listen, I like Spyderco as much as the next guy. I counted mine last evening. Not counting the new Para 2 I just snagged I have currently 38 Spydies in my collection. But lets stop making excuses. The knife did terribly in a test others did admirably in. The testing parameters cannot be too far off the mark because why else would Spyderco be making changes to the folder unless some of what Jim found was verified in their own testing? If anything you guys should be thanking him for improving the product you buy. Instead he was all but accused of doing more damage to the knife after the testing. Something that bothers me by the way because he posted pics of the knife after testing. If the knife is in condition other than those pics, which are still up by the way, show us please. I'd like to see it.

STR

 

[flipe8]

If your using knives with any kind of frequency your going to have an over strike or over strike type incident.

Again, I use my knives enough to know how I've used them and overstrikes like those discussed here have never been an issue with me. Binding up on something resulting in an increased amount of force has taken place, but not like has been shown. Maybe it's because I don't chop with folders, but it doesn't matter. I'm dropping out of this thread unless directly questionned, as I've said my piece and simply agree to disagree on this point.

 

[STR]

Again chopping with a folder is not the only way an overstrike can occur. Nor is the way I portrayed earlier and if you find that scenario I presented hard to envision thats fine. If its never happened to you thats fine too. Some of you guys do surprise me at how determined you are to shoot down a potential real world occurrence though. Some of the knives Jim is testing are CQC (close quarters combat) knives. These and many of those not even sold for this use or defense purposes are knives people train with anyway because they like them. I know people that like the Military. Others like the SOG Sere 2000, while others like an Emerson, and still others train with a Lava. I don't care how much training you have though, in an emergency situation, or in an adrenaline rush when you are being attacked and have to go on the defensive you can bet that things can happen and although the training can kick in you can still and seem to always run into things you can't possibly have prepared for. You could be trying to slice as opposed to chop and have an overstrike. Someone could grab your wrist and in a situation where the knife is being wrestled out of your hand or an opponent is trying to get the knife from you or cause you to drop it you could have the knife hit in an overstrike position. The idea that this cannot happen in real world use to me is absurd!

I think the real issue here is fanatics for a certain brand can't accept that a failure took place on a knife they like, by a company they like and now they are on the defensive where if the knife had done well and another brand had failed that they didn't care about those same people would be praising the tests parameters. It is disappointing when something you like fails I agree but the real test is in how the lock behaved in the taps and that was not good.

Forget the prying. I mean I do. Personally that to me is the one part of the test I don't care for. Besides this its hard to judge the amount of force used on one knife verses another let alone how the shape of the blade, the grind geometry, the weight of the blade and handle together, the force of the swing and so on can all vary. There is no way to really say that Jim hit the same way with every knife or that one blade didn't penetrate deeper than another in the pry tests. Some blades that are thinner will certainly go in deeper with the same force and even deeper still with more force.

There is no way to really judge the actual pressures used to tap each knife either but we can see from the videos he is trying best as humanly possible to do the tests fairly. CATRA tests and tests done with devices have their place but its been said before, these types of tests do not take the place of the human hand and you cannot duplicate with a machine how a knife, blade or lock will behave once its in someone's hand in real world use. So to me tests like these are very valid and very worthwhile even if the results can't be quantified in measurable fashion.

Seriously when I look at the way Jim tapped one and then tapped another I'm not seeing a whole lot of variance. I think he is really making an attempt to keep the tests parameters even and steady repeating them pretty much the same through out. If those of you that feel otherwise and want to critic his performance feel its not you are perfectly entitled to that opinion and by all means grab a camera and please show us how it should be done if you can do it better.

STR

 

[singularity35]

All the furor that Ankerson caused with this series of test just seem like damage control by some people. I don't know about others, but it seems pretty obvious to me.

 

[jill jackson]

I'm fairly certain the Manix should be able to take spine-whacking, if it's not loose from prying wood and over-strikes first. It may even be able to handle the entire ordeal, if it's not used to pry with so hard and it's tightened up and locked at the pivot.
I do remember reading a few years ago that Spyderco would test by spine-whacking and I can't imagine they designed a model like the Manix 2 without testing that and having the model pass it. The Manix 2 in the test did cut deep and was used a good bit harder for prying than the rest, because of that. The only thing I'd like to see is another test of this model, without such hard prying and maybe a locktighted pivot. Then we would see if the Manix 2 can hold up to this use at all.

 

[singularity35]

There was a post with Eric Glasser's statement that there will be some slight improvements. I hope that will make the manix 2 better and stronger. I also wonder about the MBC rating. Do they still stand by that, unequivocally?

Maybe somebody can donate another mannix 2 for a repeat test. We will kindly ask Ankerson to spend his time again.

 

[jill jackson]

If it's tested again the pivot tight through the entire test and it's not used to pry with anymore so than the others and fails I think we can say it won't ever hold up to this test.
I think it probably would pass, but until it's repeated we won't know. The tip we know won't take the prying so no need to try that again.

 

[Ankerson]

If it's tested again the pivot tight through the entire test and it's not used to pry with anymore so than the others and fails I think we can say it won't ever hold up to this test.
I think it probably would pass, but until it's repeated we won't know. The tip we know won't take the prying so no need to try that again.

Jill,

They (Spyderco) tested Manix 2's after they got my knife back.

From what I read what Eric Posted the Manix 2 won't withstand multiple over Strikes as he put it will break the lock.

Do you really think Spyderco would be making changes if there wasn't a problem?

What my testing did was find a possible weakness that Spyderco found and confirmed once they did their own testing. Now they are making changes to correct the problem.

I really don't get why this is so hard for people to understand.

 

[jill jackson]

After reviewing the video, doing our own tests, and receiving Mr. Anderson’s knife, here are my thoughts.

Mr. Ankerson’s test has areas that can certainly be scrutinized.


The knife was never inspected before the knife was tested. Is everything in order?

Also, usually when a knife defeats hitting it more times over and over doesn’t change the fact the locks been broken, just adds to the drama.

We received the Manix 2 sent by Mr. Anderson, it leaves many more questions than answers.

To begin with, he sent the Manix 2 wrapped in the obituaries section of the paper. Personally I think it was intentional and had motives. Take it as you will.

We unwrapped it and were very surprised. It’s unclear based on the knife sent in, as to what failed during “Hard Use Test”. The knife was beaten up much more than the video shows, there seems to be more to the story then what appears.

We know whatever evidence was left after the video Mr. Anderson’s shot, was destroyed before he sent the knife to us.

Ok, Ankerson but I get Spyderco not so sure there is not much more to the story than the video shows and I for one would like to see the test repeated with a dead tight pivot and you not using the knife to pry with any more so than the others were.(you did seem to use it harder at the bottom of the wood cutting to pry the larger pieces away, the others did not cut nearly as deep and you barely used them to pry compared) I don't even own a Manix 2 but I still would like to see one tested the way I describe. I don't care who tests it, i just would enjoy seeing if the results are the same or different.

 

[Ankerson]

Ok, Ankerson but I get Spyderco not so sure there is not much more to the story than the video shows and I for one would like to see the test repeated with a dead tight pivot and you not using the knife to pry with any more so than the others were.(you did seem to use it harder at the bottom of the wood cutting to pry the larger pieces away) I don't even own a Manix 2 but I still would like to see one tested the way I describe. I don't care who tests it, i just would enjoy seeing if the results are the same or different.

The knife wasn't beaten up and or Destroyed before I sent it to them.

This is exactly how the knife looked when it was sent to Spyderco USPS Priority Mail Insured with Delivery Confirmation.

These photos are also in this thread at the beginning.








Do you really think I would have offered to send the knife to them if I had something to hide, I am not stupid or an idiot.

And on top of that send them a destroyed knife wasting my own time and money?

I wouldn't have offered to send it to them in the 1st place.

 

[jill jackson]

The knife wasn't beaten up and or Destroyed before I sent it to them.

This is exactly how the knife looked when it was sent to Spyderco USPS Priority Mail Insured with Delivery Confirmation.

These photos are also in this thread at the beginning.








Do you really think I would have offered to send the knife to them if I had something to hide?

And on top of that send them a destroyed knife wasting my own time and money?

I wouldn't have offered to send it to them in the 1st place.

I never said it Spyderco did.
I just would like to see if it can pass your test with a locktighted pivot and prying comparable to what the others did. The tip we know won't stand the prying. If it's tested the way I describe and the lock fails in the same manner then I would be satisfied about the model.

 

[Ankerson]

I never said it Spyderco did.
I just would like to see if it can pass your test with a locktighted pivot and prying comparable to what the others did. The tip we know won't stand the prying. If it's tested the way I describe and the lock fails in the same manner then I would be satisfied about the model.

It obvious that Spyderco found a problem in their own testing confirming what I found or they wouldn't be making changes.

They don't make changes just because it's Tuesday or the wind blew today spending money for no reason.

 

[singularity35]

It obvious that Spyderco found a problem in their own testing confirming what I found or they wouldn't be making changes.

They don't make changes just because it's Tuesday or the wind blew today spending money for no reason.

Agree on this. This can't be a coincidence.

 

[Ankerson]

Agree on this. This can't be a coincidence.

Yeah Corporations just don't spend money or make changes for no reason.

My Process had to have had some value or Spyderco wouldn't have done their own testing and decided to make changes to the locking mechanism.

So in effect Spyderco validated my process and my findings.

 

[jill jackson]

It obvious that Spyderco found a problem in their own testing confirming what I found or they wouldn't be making changes.

They don't make changes just because it's Tuesday or the wind blew today spending money for no reason.

It's also fairly obvious they think your testing wasn't on the up and up.
I'd like to see the test repeated on video with the locktited pivot and prying compared to the rest. If the over-strikes alone caused the lock to fail, I'm not real sure minor changes would fix it. Shock is going to be transmitted to the lock no matter how it's beefed up in that area. I guess you can wait and test the new model. Ideally another should be tested locktighted and without prying anymore than the others was used to pry with on the stake cutting. Then a new improved model could be tested. That's my idea of real informative testing.
But, I also understand there's some money involved in it so it may not happen.

 

[Ankerson]

It's also fairly obvious they think your testing wasn't on the up and up.
I'd like to see the test repeated on video with the locktited pivot and prying compared to the rest. If the over-strikes alone caused the lock to fail, I'm not real sure minor changes would fix it. Shock is going to be transmitted to the lock no matter how it's beefed up in that area. I guess you can wait and test the new model. Ideally another should be tested locktighted and without prying anymore than the others was used to pry with on the stake cutting. Then a new improved model could be tested. That's my idea of real informative testing.
But, I also understand there's some money involved in it so it may not happen.

Jill,

If my testing really wasn't on the up and up as you say do you really think they would have bothered testing the model and then after testing it and finding guess what..... The same thing that I found then make changes to the locking mechanism?

Come on Jill I know you are smarter than that. :thumbup:

 

[jill jackson]

Jill,

If my testing wasn't on the up and up as you say do you really think they would have bothered testing the model and then after testing it and finding guess what..... The same thing that I found then make changes to the locking mechanism?

Come on Jill I know you are smarter than that. :thumbup:

As I say? I never said it.
I'm just making the point that you are keen to believe Spyderco about things that go along with the test you did and ignoring the rest.
If it was I doing the testing I'd want the knife retested {by a neutral party even] if there was doubt about my testing.

 

[Ankerson]

As I say? I never said it.
I'm just making the point that you are keen to believe Spyderco about things that go along with the test you did and ignoring the rest.
If it was I doing the testing I'd want the knife retested {by a neutral party even] if there was doubt about my testing.

It is about the testing.

That's what this is all about.

I found a weakness in the locking mechanism, Spyderco tested the model and found the same thing.

They are making changes to the locking mechanism to correct what both they and I found.

 

[jill jackson]

It is about the testing.

That's what this is all about.

I found a weakness in the locking mechanism, Spyderco tested the model and found the same thing.

They are making changes to the locking mechanism to correct what both they and I found.

OK, wait and test the new model then.