Spyderco, no longer the value it once was...

[miltmaldo]

I'm a Spyderco Fan that said they do have some that are over price . For me there biggest over price knife is the Leafstorm $170 is a lot of money that knife . I have one and I don't see the value in it like I see it in a Benchmade 755 .

 

[skyhorse]

Spyderco, no longer the value it once was...? I agree, it's actually a better value now than ever.

 

[squarebox86]

From my experience, wire-clip is stronger that what we can throw at it unintentionally.

I had an low-side(30kmh[20mph]) on a motorcycle about 3 month ago. I weigh 58kg(130lbs), I fell on my right in which my Manix2 and phone took all the damage from my hip.

Here's the damage of 58kg load at 30kmh(20mph):

Sure it's a little bent now, but it still clips to my pocket wonderfully... After this accident, I'm pretty sure FRN and wire-clip will last more than a lifetime under normal circumstances.

As for value for money, ZT have just taking over top place from Spyderco(still close behind). ZT 2014 lineup simply blew all other competition away in terms of value-per-dollar spent.

Whereas for Benchmade, they are so far behind that I doubt I will ever buy from them again. Some would defend Benchmade and claim they are helping smaller business but think deeper, Benchmade is probably supply businesses who can take in a higher volume, at a much lower cost as well. In turn, we get suckered into raising the profits of not only smaller business but also raising profits of larger businesses by a huge margin.
Basically, Benchmade is simply screwing customers over to "help" their buddies(retailers) earn more. Benchmade is not get another cent from me until they get their act together.

 

[RamZar]

Y'all are all stating these prices but I don't know where y'all are getting them from. I paid $140 for my Gayle Bradley, $150 for my Manix 2 Foliage Green CTS-XHP sprint, $108 for my PM2, $115 for my Caly 3 CF/ZDP-189, $68 for the Dfly ZDP-189. All of these (plus several others) have been purchased within the last year. The only PM2's I've seen over $150 are the sprint runs.

If y'all are paying anything close to msrp you're plum out of your minds.

Of course, for comparison purposes, the prices should be for brand new Spyderco from a dealer, it should be current prices not something from months or years ago and it should include shipping, etc.

For instance, let's compare Caly 3 CF/ZDP (C113CF) with MSRP of $249.95:

Rainforest = $130
KnifeCenter = $160
BladeHQ = $150
CS = $140
GP Knives = $150

 

[Stays Sharp]

^
Yeah, the Japanese knives went up significantly more across all knife companies including Spyderco. The power of the Japanese Yen. It sucks for me because their knives are up my alley but it's getting up there. Notice how Spyderco is trying to keep their bread and butter Endura/Delica/Salt/etc line at the same pricepoint... I bet that's getting hard to do...

 

[ToddM]

I think Spyderco is a pretty darn good value really, you have the PM2 you can get under $120 if you look, the Manix that can be had under $90. There are lots of dealers that will sell higher, but if your patient and look around you can find low prices. Maybe that's the issue, these days with say BM, ZT, CRK, Strider, etc. you see almost no price variation across dealers, but quite a bit more with Spyderco. I can only guess the other brands have much more price restrictive dealer agreements.

Now if it's sprints or LE's then sure that varies, but the secondary market has proven in a major way that pre-order, online, even MSRP prices are way less than what the market will bear. I expect we'll see higher prices and lower discounts on many sprint/le knives from many manufacturers down the road. Look at ZT, they may have other reasons motivating them as well but now LE's are going to only be sold direct at full MSRP.

Though it does not apply to all LE/Sprints. Look at the CF S90V Manix 2 XL, guys can barely sell them even now at pre-order prices.

 

[hardheart]

I don't understand all this talk of the yen. I happily ordered stuff from Japan when the dollar exchanged for around 96 yen, recoiled in horror when I checked prices during the time the yen was the global haven currency and brought it down to the mid 70s per dollar, and see that today it exchanges at about 104. This is an excellent rate for US buyers compared to the last 5 years.

 

[ToxicBot11]

I think Spyderco is a pretty darn good value really, you have the PM2 you can get under $120 if you look, the Manix that can be had under $90. There are lots of dealers that will sell higher, but if your patient and look around you can find low prices. Maybe that's the issue, these days with say BM, ZT, CRK, Strider, etc. you see almost no price variation across dealers, but quite a bit more with Spyderco. I can only guess the other brands have much more price restrictive dealer agreements.

Now if it's sprints or LE's then sure that varies, but the secondary market has proven in a major way that pre-order, online, even MSRP prices are way less than what the market will bear. I expect we'll see higher prices and lower discounts on many sprint/le knives from many manufacturers down the road. Look at ZT, they may have other reasons motivating them as well but now LE's are going to only be sold direct at full MSRP.

Though it does not apply to all LE/Sprints. Look at the CF S90V Manix 2 XL, guys can barely sell them even now at pre-order prices.

Maybe here but ebays another story. The completed listings for those says differently..

But then their is nothing unusual about that..way more foot traffic and substantially deeper pockets over there..

 

[Stays Sharp]

I don't understand all this talk of the yen. I happily ordered stuff from Japan when the dollar exchanged for around 96 yen, recoiled in horror when I checked prices during the time the yen was the global haven currency and brought it down to the mid 70s per dollar, and see that today it exchanges at about 104. This is an excellent rate for US buyers compared to the last 5 years.

Not only exchange rate, but how much knifemakers are charging. Look at Rockstead prices, how about Al Mar knives...

I'm in Japan several times a year. It's an expensive place to live, comparable to New York, SF, and Hawaii probably higher actually. I don't know what more to tell you than that. It is expensive there and Japanese makers will charge accordingly.

 

[Stays Sharp]

Double Tap

 

[hardheart]

But that has nothing to do with the exchange rate, and specifically talking about the strength of the yen relative to the dollar is wrong, as the trend is that the yen has been getting cheaper to exchange for dollars. If a McDonald's burger cost 1500 yen, which is expensive, then two years ago it would have cost almost $20 to buy one, and today it would be about $14.50. Either way, that's a pricey fast food burger, but it obviously had gotten cheaper for the US buyer while the Japanese price has stayed the same.

edit:I don't know why the prices are going up, I just know it isn't specifically because of the foreign exchange. It has to be requiring significantly more yen for some reason, much more to offset the lower requirement of dollars to acquire yen.

 

[Stays Sharp]

But that has nothing to do with the exchange rate, and specifically talking about the strength of the yen relative to the dollar is wrong, as the trend is that the yen has been getting cheaper to exchange for dollars. If a McDonald's burger cost 1500 yen, which is expensive, then two years ago it would have cost almost $20 to buy one, and today it would be about $14.50. Either way, that's a pricey fast food burger, but it obviously had gotten cheaper for the US buyer while the Japanese price has stayed the same.

Oh ok, will you feel better if we leave the Yen out of it?

...So how can we explain the significant price increases to the Japanese made Sydercos as compared to the US and Taiwan ones then?

Quick example: People have been requesting the return of the G10 Endura/Delica which was priced at around $90. Sal has said that it will significantly be more than that, around $130 now. DUE TO the power of the Yen and what makers are charging there. That's from Sal saying it. Is he lying or is he just sharing what he knows Hardheart? What do you think?

 

[flarp]

At around $45 just a couple years back, I thought the Delica and Endura were fantastic values. Even at their current $55-60 price point, it's still a pretty decent value.

 

[hardheart]

I'm not even sure now, I've seen you edit the same post, significantly, three times. I'm not sure what to respond to. Maybe Sal is talking about exchange rates prior to the Great Recession. If he was referencing up to around 2007, then the rate is still well below that. I'm just saying that the rate has improved markedly, it's the best it's been on monthly average for the last six years.

 

[Stays Sharp]

Bad habit, quick trigger finger. I proof read AFTER I post. Then read again and see mistakes AFTER I update. TMI sometimes.

I am so sorry. It is all updated now in their final form.

So, can you offer a reason as to why the Japanese Spydercos have significantly gone up compared to the rest of the line besides Sal's explanation that the Yen and the Makers are both the factor? Or are you just gonna keep complaining about us talking about the Yen.

There, I did it again. I am sorry again. LOL

 

[Quiet]

At around $45 just a couple years back, I thought the Delica and Endura were fantastic values. Even at their current $55-60 price point, it's still a pretty decent value.

I would definitely agree with this. The Endura is, in my mind, one of the great classics for modern EDC. You have this nice, light knife that actually fills multiple roles. It's easily opened with the Spyderhole, and that fantastic blade is long enough to function in a self defense role if it were ever needed*, yet has great geometry for slicing food, or whatever else you need to cut. The handle really works fantastically for folks with larger hands or even smaller hands, with contours that make it great for a variety of holds.

The Delica? Take all of what I just said, and stuff it in a smaller package.

If I were to find one in G10 with some decent liners I'd definitely pay whatever was asked for it.




*Full disclosure, I have a fully SE Endura I occasionally carry for just this use

 

[hardheart]

OK. Well, I still have to stick with the same thing, I'm just not sure the timeframe Sal is talking about. It is much better now than it was three years ago, but if we go back a few decades, the current exchange rate is three times worse. Imagine getting a Police model for $40, exact same build construction and materials, just with a dollar netting you more than 300 yen. Of course, the economic forces making the current Japanese Spydies possible also lead to the difference in the exchange rate, to some level of correlation.

 

[RevDevil]

Hmm. I think there is still a lot of value there. Will every model regardless of country or origin have the same profit margin? No, of course not. But, when compared to other companies, dealers have raised their prices in the last few years. The Native (FRN) went from $55-60 to $70-75. The same can be seen in several models, but not all of them. The regular Para2 has always been somewhere between $105-$120, not all dealers will sell an item for the same price, unless there is something like a MAAP or UPP agreement in the works.

 

[Luis G.]

But then you spend $15 more and get a Delica/Endura, which blows anything Kershaw offers in that price range out of the water.



The Para 2 has the better lock, and IMO a much better blade for EDC.



204P is a much better steel than Elmax, and G10 scales offer grip. Regardless, the "USA made" argument is tricky, because how much truly goes into a "USA made" product? Many cars are "USA made" yet have the majority of their parts made elsewhere. Not only that, but in this case, the money eventually makes it back into the country because Spyderco is a USA company.

Additionally, the Taiwan made Spydercos consistently have near perfect F&F, so I wouldn't say that being made in the USA is an advantage.



Omega springs breaking are Axis lock failures... That's the most integral part of the lock.



...



I've dealt with both, half a dozen times each. I've had much better results from Spyderco.



Then why are those dealers constantly offering "discounts"? After all, their end goal is to make more money.

Honestly, this is all personal experience and preference. If you like Benchmade designs better, that's great. I can't argue your personal experience and preference. But as far as mine go - alleged poor warranty included - Spyderco wins by a large margin.

1. Wrong plus provided no fair points. Aluminum vs frn? Lock back vs liner lock? Lock backs are known to be inexpensive to mfger, and Spyderco's lock backs are known to have bladeplay (in fact most lock backs do except for a few that account for wear... tri ad lock iirc is one).
2. Wrong. ZT 0770 has better geometry for edc, it is not as delicate as a PM2's blade. The tip on the Pm2 is infamously delicate. The lack of sharpening choil doesn't help the PM2. The huge handle footprint to blade ratio while somewhat comfortable isn't worth it.
3. M390 and CTS 204P and are not much better than Elmax. Remember one of the benefits of those steels was toughness while keeping good edge retention. That's what Elmax is. This is speaking in production level. In the custom world, it's a whole other ballgame. M390 beats it hands down when it's perfectly HTed. (then again if you saw production m390 (204P), vs custom M390 you would believe it's a S30v vs s90v comparison.
4. Hello? History? Axis lock? Benchmade didn't create the axis lock they just basically bought it.
5. I've dealt with a lot of knife companies. So far Benchmade has the best service.
6. Business.

Anyways we'll agree to disagree, aye?

 

[stabman]

The huge handle footprint to blade ratio while somewhat comfortable isn't worth it.

It's worth it if you want more handle to better control the blade.
At some point I may still end up modifying one of my dad's Griptilians to have a blade just under 3" length while still having a full handle; it's something he likes the idea of.

You want full handle utilization? Take a look at the original Police model; you can't fit more blade in there.