Spyderco PM2 woes

[onojoe]

This is gold

Do NOT attempt loosening any of the screws with cheapo Torx drivers!!
Leave the clip where it is till you get a good set!! You'll strip every screw you touch! Ask me how I know that. Ugh.
Do a search for Wiha Torx drivers. They are excellent and priced very fairly!!
Fake???? Got to post some pics.
Good luck
Joe

 

[cash71]

Okay you're going to have to let go of the idea that guns and knives are in the same manufacturing relm because they're totally not. Normally the pivot and handle screws will have Loctite, well as clip screws. This goes for most manufacturers, it's pretty uncommon to not see it. It's also pretty standard advice when the pivot screw has a tendency of adjusting.

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I never said that guns were in the same relm as knives, someone else did. I'm saying simply any product that requires loctite to hold their parts together isn't designed well and if it does why is it considered to be a high quality product. I've looked at knives at prices from $10 to thousands and frankly I have no idea why they reach these levels.

You can give a engineer a clean sheet of paper and half a day and he will come up with a method that allows the end user to dismantle the product and not have to heat the screws and possibly make the screws from hardened screws so his customer doesn't mess things up simply adjusting the product. Maybe these Mfg's need to step up and prove they're quality Mfg's

 

[Screwdriver]

I never said that guns were in the same relm as knives, someone else did. I'm saying simply any product that requires loctite to hold their parts together isn't designed well and if it does why is it considered to be a high quality product. I've looked at knives at prices from $10 to thousands and frankly I have no idea why they reach these levels.

You can give a engineer a clean sheet of paper and half a day and he will come up with a method that allows the end user to dismantle the product and not have to heat the screws and possibly make the screws from hardened screws so his customer doesn't mess things up simply adjusting the product. Maybe these Mfg's need to step up and prove they're quality Mfg's

You might want to take up a different hobby, or understand this one better......As for Spyderco, they have some of the highest quality production folders around.

 

[cash71]

Little bit of know what for ya, Spyderco was the first to install said "pocket clasp" to a pocket knife... And a dozen other firsts in the knife world.

I agree a proper engineered tool shouldn't need locktite on all the things. But its not an issue with proper tools and a little heat.

Thanks for the agreement. As you mention Spiderco has had some firsts, that's good but changes nothing regarding the engineering of what we're talking about especially when a Mfg. knows it's customers will have difficulty dealing with this issue. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to resolve this.

 

[cash71]

You might want to take up a different hobby, or understand this one better......As for Spyderco, they have some of the highest quality production folders around.

Typical thread, no I know exactly what I'm saying. "You say Spyderco has some of the highest quality production folders around" that may/may not be true and frankly I'll be the judge of that for my money. They have lousy loctited screws as far as I'm concerned. If you think that's a great design fine, I don't and I don't mind saying it.

Frankly telling me to take up another hobby is childish at best. If you don't have any idea how to explain Spyderco or any other Mfg's reluctance to address it's shortcomings then why reply.

 

[cash71]

Sorry, you are mistaken. Many highly engineered mechanical designs and sub-assemblies incorporate thread-locker. This is called for in the specification, especially when vibration is an issue.

First I'm not mistaken.

So what you're saying is that knives have a high vibration issue, hum I'd rethink that if I were you. cuz you may be mistaken.

 

[802-303]

I can promise you no matter how well some things are engineered, you still need locktite. I build vehicles for LEO/Fire/EMS/Government. Find me something that is perfectly engineered, and they'll find a way to break/bend/inop it in ways you didn't think possible. They're savage! I've seen a small population of knife people who fall into this category, there for knife company's factor them into design.

 

[adequacy]

Even with wiha's you may have an issue. I've had some red loctite snap the end off of a wiha INSIDE the screw. Try and use a blowdryer.

 

[iptest]

I think the confusion in this conversation is that, Spyderco didn't use loctite due to quality issue; they used the red loctite to discourage user from disassembled the knife, since it will void the warranty.
It is a business decision, not related to quality and accuracy of the manufacturing


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[Screwdriver]

Typical thread, no I know exactly what I'm saying. "You say Spyderco has some of the highest quality production folders around" that may/may not be true and frankly I'll be the judge of that for my money. They have lousy loctited screws as far as I'm concerned. If you think that's a great design fine, I don't and I don't mind saying it.

Frankly telling me to take up another hobby is childish at best. If you don't have any idea how to explain Spyderco or any other Mfg's reluctance to address it's shortcomings then why reply.

Well it seems to me that you don't understand price/performance in the real world. And by the fact that you have never owned a Spyderco, yet make "know it all" assumptions, just reinforces that.

 

[Goose 7279]

A company that uses loctite to hold their parts together has everything to do with the quality of their products, especially when they know the end user will be taking apart the product. If the company is amazing, as you say, then they need to be a bit more amazing and design a product that allows users to do what they must.

First off they are spyderco knives. I just want to understand what your saying, so chris reeves knives who makes a production knife engineered with the tolerance of .0001 and uses loctite (they even send the knife with a small bottle of loctite) has crappy quality and isnt engineered right? Man i had no idea. CMON man if you are into guns and knives and other tools you gotta understand if you use or beat on something long enough it will loosen up and need to have some maintenance done on it IE tightened up. For anything that has small screws that are stressed or used everyday and/or repetitively. No matter the design it still needs maintained and tightened up or a drop of loctite put on to ensure it doesnt loosen over time. It doesnt have anything to do with the design. Everything wears over time. Loctite is just a preventative measure.

 

[Petunia D. Feeble]

First I'm not mistaken.

So what you're saying is that knives have a high vibration issue, hum I'd rethink that if I were you. cuz you may be mistaken.

I carry my clipped folders in my back pocket, so they're subjected to a good bit of force regularly. I've not owned a knife yet where the clip screws wouldn't walk out without Loctite.

Could they engineer a clip assembly that didn't need the Loctite? Probably, but it would come at a cost. Tooling that's more complicated or precise would drive prices up and thicker liners that allow the threads more purchase would make the knife heavier.

If you don't want to buy one because they use loctite, fine. I'm sure they'll survive without your business. Saying that you know their knives are poorly engineered because you own some guns is like me saying I know your chimney is poorly built because I have a porch.

 

[Screwdriver]

First off they are spyderco knives. I just want to understand what your saying, so chris reeves knives who makes a production knife engineered with the tolerance of .0001 and uses loctite (they even send the knife with a small bottle of loctite) has crappy quality and isnt engineered right? Man i had no idea. CMON man if you are into guns and knives and other tools you gotta understand if you use or beat on something long enough it will loosen up and need to have some maintenance done on it IE tightened up. For anything that has small screws that are stressed or used everyday and/or repetitively. No matter the design it still needs maintained and tightened up or a drop of loctite put on to ensure it doesnt loosen over time. It doesnt have anything to do with the design. Everything wears over time. Loctite is just a preventative measure.

I forgot my CRK 25 came with a bottle......and I'd find it damn funny if someone said they should have a tighter tolerance or quality of materials.

 

[Schwifty]

First I'm not mistaken.

So what you're saying is that knives have a high vibration issue, hum I'd rethink that if I were you. cuz you may be mistaken.

Bless you.
I was not referencing knives, I hope you're just being facetious about not understanding me. Clearly I was being vague. Suffice to say, industries that demand the most stringent manufacturing tolerances use thread-locker.

 

[cash71]

First off they are spyderco knives. I just want to understand what your saying, so chris reeves knives who makes a production knife engineered with the tolerance of .0001 and uses loctite (they even send the knife with a small bottle of loctite) has crappy quality and isnt engineered right? Man i had no idea. CMON man if you are into guns and knives and other tools you gotta understand if you use or beat on something long enough it will loosen up and need to have some maintenance done on it IE tightened up. For anything that has small screws that are stressed or used everyday and/or repetitively. No matter the design it still needs maintained and tightened up or a drop of loctite put on to ensure it doesnt loosen over time. It doesnt have anything to do with the design. Everything wears over time. Loctite is just a preventative measure.

Simply I don't believe something that's supposed to be " high quality " be required to use loctite to hold their screws in period ( for the 5 th time )

I wouldn't purchase one based on what I now know, the lousy screws is simply one fact among others, I never said the knife had "crappy quality" you did.

Come on, I'm supposed to believe the pocket piece is supposed to be stressed all the time, Are you sure we're talking about the same thing?

Loctite is used because the part doesn't perform properly, if you don't use it.

 

[RLDubbya]

I've been collecting guns for close to 5 decades, new to knives but not manufacturing other products. A few parts on some guns are loctited in areas that receive high impact/ shock, please explain the areas on knives that parallel this? A properly engineered pocket clasp needs a flexible metal in the clip and properly engineered screws.

And those darned motorcycles they race. You know that some tracks require you drill holes through all nuts and bolts, and wire them in place with a product called, of all things, SAFETY WIRE? They just don't know how to engineer at all, these Japanese motorcycle manufacturers. Oh, or the Americans, Italians, English...

/sarcasm

 

[Amoo]

To be fair to both sides.

1. The reason Sypderco started using loctite is because they didn't want every ape with a torx taking apart their knife and sending it in for repairs because they couldn't put 4 pieces back together.

2. The use of red loctite is absolutely ridiculous and I find it hard for anybody to defend that at all. Blue or lesser, no issue, red is just...no.

 

[PURPLEDC]

I doubt it, if they would have engineered the knife properly they wouldn't need loctite, they need to engineer the knives they mfg. with the correct screws that would allow people to adjust for their needs.

I question your experience with knives. Loctite is a very very common practice. From microtech to zt to hinderer etc. How about you tell us how they should engineer their screws to not back out without loctite?

And that is Spyderco's fault?
.

Did I say that? No I didnt. If that is what I meant, thats exactly what I would have said. My point is that no matter what spyderco does, whether they use loctite or dont use loctite is that someone WILL complain. Their is no one way to set up a knife that all customers will be happy. We all want our knives custom tailored to our desires. Unfortunately its not a viable reality.

 

[1234]

If history was different, we could have had, Claspits!

Oh and I use a soldering iron, carefully, to get the screws/loctite hot.

1234,,,

 

[cash71]

Bless you.
I was not referencing knives, I hope you're just being facetious about not understanding me. Clearly I was being vague. Suffice to say, industries that demand the most stringent manufacturing tolerances use thread-locker.

Excuse me, I must have read it differently but high vibration and knives are not mutual. I'm aware that some mfg's, use Loctite, whether it's the only alternative or not is another discussion.