Spyderco vs Benhcmade

Part of owning objects like knives, guns, cars and other things that can break is learning how to maintain them. It will cost you as much in postage to have a Spyderco or Benchmade sharpened twice, as it would to LEARN to sharpen your own knives, and buy one of Spyderco's ceramic sharpening stones.

If you put the onus on the manufacturer to maintain your equipment for you, you should not have it in the first place. Be a man, Vinny, take responsibility for your own life, and actions. Sometimes the car gets a flat tire, you can wait for AAA, or you can change your own tire.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
Vinny,
Knives are tools. Tools break. Tools wear down. Tools need to be maintained. Knives are simple to maintain with the right equipment. I personally would rather have the right equipment to sharpen my knifes when I need to rather than box my knife up, schlepp it to the post office, pay for shipping then wait for its return. My time is more valuable than that and with $40 investment (sharpmaker), I can put on as good or better an edge in the time it would take just to pack the knife.

There are breakdowns in any manufacturing process and quality control. I have had a lot of Spydercos. I have had 5 paramilitaries. All perfect. I have yet to return a Spyderco. I have had to return a Benchmade. If I had received the knife with the burr you had on a collecting piece, I too would have returned it. If it was to be a user, I'd have fixed that minor imperfection in about 2 minutes.
 
but whatr you guys dont understand is that I didnt know that it was just a little peice of metal that could be taken off. I thoght somebody ****ed with the knife before i got it and stabbed metal or somthing and bent the tip if the blade.
 
:barf: :barf: :barf:

Microscopic imperfections in a production knife! What on earth are we going to do?

Oh, I know.....hire some more QC people so that the price of the knife goes up! That's the ticket!


OR


Use it, sharpen it up, and the problem goes away.

This thread along with the other two is more than just a little anal retentive.

Hope you're going to take some good psych classes, you may see that there are some symptoms you might recognize.

Good luck in your quest for the perfect production knives.


Some other items you might look for in your quest for perfection:

Are the grind lines (bevels and flats) perfectly crisp and sharp? Are the exactly the same on both sides of the blade? So the grind lines end perfectly at the same place on both sides of the blade? Are there any grind marks that should have been buffed out?

Are any of the screws burred? Do the handle slabs match each other perfectly? Is the round-over of the handle material perfectly match? How
about the sharpened bevel, is it the same angle on both sides? Is it 15 degrees per side? 20 or 30....Oh no, too thick a bevel, won't cut good!

OH, there are so many areas to examine in the quest for perfection!

Not to mention all of the things that can be imperfect about the lock.

The list just overwhelms me.


;) Thomas Zinn :D :)
 
Let's see:

I want perfection, but don't want to go to a brick and mortar to examine samples and pick the "best" of the lot. That would be too much trouble and money.

I'm at NYU Stern (where I have my MBA from, BTW) and I cannot spell or write coherently.

I want a perfect knife (tool) but will not spend money on the (other) tools needed to keep that tool working properly. Nor learn to use them properly.

And Sony (whom I worked for for 7 years) would not "accept" a defect level like you encountered on this knife. Also, VERY wrong. In fact, there are "within acceptable limits" of dead pixels (on LCD projectors and panels)that will NOT be fixed by a service center (under warranty) because they are, in fact, acceptable.

Stop me when I'm wrong........
 
vinny77 said:
or I could save thet $90 and get a near or perfect knife anmd not have to worry and then just send it in to be sharpened when it is needed.

why should I as a consumer have to have the tools to fix a product which I bought that was not even acceptable.

Think about what you are saying
Click to expand...

I know exactly what I am saying and I feel sorry for you. These knives we all own are tools. Tools need maintance from time to time. What are you going to do, spend $5 for the factory to sharpen your knife everytime it dulls up? My knife will dull up multiple times a week and I do not have the money or time to send it back and forth. With most of the knives I buy, I do not care about out-of-box sharpness, because I sharpen them to my specifications, to my liking, before I even use it. If you buy a chainsaw, are you going to buy a new chain everytime it dulls? No you are going to buy a chainsaw file and sharpen it up. If you buy a car are you going to spend $1,000's to have it fixed by a mechanic or are you going to buy a $20 Chiltons Service Manual and learn to fix the problem yourself for half the price? I think this all comes down to being just plain lazy. In the long run you will save yourself a lot of time and money by learning to do things for yourself.
 
First of all I think we can all talk without flaming each other. I really agree with both sides. I can however see what vinny is talking about.

If I would have received my first Benchmade and it had not been perfect I would have been upset. You have to remember that to guys like me, and maybe to vinny, that paying $80+ for a knife is a good buy. We assume that when we pay for a good knife that it's going to be a good knife. I'm used to seeing crappy quality when I buy a cheap knife from Lowes or Home Depot just to beat on. But when I start getting close to $100 for a knife I want it to be good. I think spending $300 on a Sebenza is insane. However I also think that paying $40,000 on a decked out 4x4 pickup is crazy too. I drive a $15,000 Ford Taurus. It's a good car for the right price. I feel the same way about Benchmade and Spyderco. I'm thankful that I can buy a good knife for $100. Even when I pay $59 for a Scorpius like I did I expect it to be a really nice knife. Why? Because it has the Spyderco name on it. Luckily for me my Scorpius is really nice. Had it come with scratches on it or burrs I may be thinking differently of my first Spyderco purchase.

I think the point is this. Vinny was upset because he paid good money for a good knife. I also don't have the tools to sharpen a knife yet. I'm just starting at this. I would be very turned off had I bought a Para-Military and it had noticable burrs on it. I probably would have went back to Benchmade.

The point is that for most people $100 for a knife is a lot. I don't just have money lying around to use either :) If I buy a $100 knife or even a $50 knife I expect it to be a nice piece. If I can't get a nice quality knife for $50-$100 something is way wrong. If what you're all saying is that I have to spend $300 for a good quality knife I think you're mistaken. My Benchmade 880BT is wonderful and perfect and I paid $80 for it. I'd be happy if all knives were this perfect from the factory :)

My $.02 :)

Thanks for reading.
 
Vinny,

You are coming off as a beligerent clown. Calling a knife defective because of a burr indicates you know nothing about knives.
I am glad that New Graham took care of you, because if it was me, I would have told you to take a flying leap. That says a lot for their quality customer service.
It's guys like you who make life hard for retailers by hemming and hawwing over every perceived microscopic flaw. I am sure if you get a Benchmade, you'll find a spot on the liner and send that back too for being defective. Maybe you should take up sewing or something.
 
I'm Sorry Vinnie, I was remiss! :D


I forgot to mention the dreaded vertical and horizontal blade play syndrome.

This is sneaky, you won't detect it by just trying to wiggle the blade side to side and up an down :D . BUT, if you really apply pressure, defective knives can be detected. Also, if you have a liner lock, when you do this test vigorously, you may see that the locking liner may move from its original position. If it moves, no matter how microscopically, the knife is defective.
:rolleyes: :eek:

Again, my appologies.


Thomas Zinn
 
Fisher of Men said:
First of all I think we can all talk without flaming each other. I really agree with both sides. I can however see what vinny is talking about.

If I would have received my first Benchmade and it had not been perfect I would have been upset. You have to remember that to guys like me, and maybe to vinny, that paying $80+ for a knife is a good buy. We assume that when we pay for a good knife that it's going to be a good knife. I'm used to seeing crappy quality when I buy a cheap knife from Lowes or Home Depot just to beat on. But when I start getting close to $100 for a knife I want it to be good. I think spending $300 on a Sebenza is insane. However I also think that paying $40,000 on a decked out 4x4 pickup is crazy too. I drive a $15,000 Ford Taurus. It's a good car for the right price. I feel the same way about Benchmade and Spyderco. I'm thankful that I can buy a good knife for $100. Even when I pay $59 for a Scorpius like I did I expect it to be a really nice knife. Why? Because it has the Spyderco name on it. Luckily for me my Scorpius is really nice. Had it come with scratches on it or burrs I may be thinking differently of my first Spyderco purchase.

I think the point is this. Vinny was upset because he paid good money for a good knife. I also don't have the tools to sharpen a knife yet. I'm just starting at this. I would be very turned off had I bought a Para-Military and it had noticable burrs on it. I probably would have went back to Benchmade.

The point is that for most people $100 for a knife is a lot. I don't just have money lying around to use either :) If I buy a $100 knife or even a $50 knife I expect it to be a nice piece. If I can't get a nice quality knife for $50-$100 something is way wrong. If what you're all saying is that I have to spend $300 for a good quality knife I think you're mistaken. My Benchmade 880BT is wonderful and perfect and I paid $80 for it. I'd be happy if all knives were this perfect from the factory :)

My $.02 :)

Thanks for reading.
Click to expand...


yeah thanks alot, I fell the same exact way.
 
Fisher, :( :(

Sometimes our expectation are way too high in the knife world....I'm sorry, but that's the way it is. I've had more than a few of them, and I can tell you that production knives, even from the best shops, will never satisfy a perfectionist's scrutiny, the way that a handmade will. Sad to say, as it was explained to Vinnie in his other threads, you will have to pony up for more than $100 for that kind of craftsmanship.

Sometimes, the expensive handmade knife has issues that you wish you hadn't paid for, but that's another topic. :eek:


Regards,

Thomas Zinn
 
gorlank said:
Vinny,

You are coming off as a beligerent clown. Calling a knife defective because of a burr indicates you know nothing about knives.
I am glad that New Graham took care of you, because if it was me, I would have told you to take a flying leap. That says a lot for their quality customer service.
It's guys like you who make life hard for retailers by hemming and hawwing over every perceived microscopic flaw. I am sure if you get a Benchmade, you'll find a spot on the liner and send that back too for being defective. Maybe you should take up sewing or something.
Click to expand...


hey clown, if you read. Its my first knife. so yeah i dont know anything.
 
I suggest we cool it and or lock this thread before it spirals downward..
 
I dont understand the big deal. Is it that hard to belive that the blade wasent to my standard so that I returned it. Now am looking for somthing else.

I ahve never clamed to know anything about knives and untill i got my knife I didnt even know what a Burr was.

I realy dont care if u guys think Im an idiot for expecting to get what i paid for. i would never spend $300 for a knife. $100 is an insane amount as is. So there is no chance of that.

I find it sad that you guys can accept flaws in knives, It doenst matter how exoensive or cheap it is. They should be there. I mean you guys talk about spyderco as if they are this godly company. well they arent.


and belive me if you guys wouldnet except these flaws belive me they woudlent be there. if for every flaw was reported the problem would be solved and if nobody was to buy you would get these so called custom quality knives from the factory.





Tell me why i should ahve to deal with a burr. if you can give me one reason that can tell me why it is acceptable to have a flaw with a balde, then you have beaten me and I will stop.

The problem is , is that you cant. beocuse you know thatyou would rather get a perfect blade everytime rather than getting one with a number of flaws.
 
zinn1348 said:
Fisher, :( :(

Sometimes our expectation are way too high in the knife world....I'm sorry, but that's the way it is. I've had more than a few of them, and I can tell you that production knives, even from the best shops, will never satisfy a perfectionist's scrutiny, the way that a handmade will. Sad to say, as it was explained to Vinnie in his other threads, you will have to pony up for more than $100 for that kind of craftsmanship.

Sometimes, the expensive handmade knife has issues that you wish you hadn't paid for, but that's another topic. :eek:


Regards,

Thomas Zinn
Click to expand...

Well I appreciate your honesty. I can accept that. I will say that for now Spyderco and Benchmade are darn good and they are all that I want/need :)

Cheers,
Fisher of Men :D
 
DaveH said:
I suggest we cool it and or lock this thread before it spirals downward..
Click to expand...

Could send to Whine and Cheese... Heh.. but yeah, it's gettin' a bit hot in here.
 
Peace to all here.

With reference to the prior thread, this is deja vue all over again.

Try this. Economics (and experience) teach that the incremental cost of each degree by which you approach perfection increases, and it's not a straight line function, vinny.

I respectfully submit that, over time, the economics of the market place - not this community as you said - are responsible for the QC at a given price point. (You can fool some of the people, etc.)

The problem in this thread is fairly simple. In you opinion, the QC should have been higher at the price you paid. The experienced folks here are telling you that, in their opinions, you are wrong. You admit that you have no experience -- no data - but you persist in rejecting the collective experience of the group. OK, vinny, you're the professor. How do you grade your "paper?

And, vinny, why are you here? Seriously, do you think they will accept your judgment? Do you really want their advice?

$.02
 
f for every flaw was reported the problem would be solved and if nobody was to buy you would get these so called custom quality knives from the factory.
Click to expand...


That is true, but each of the knives would then cost several hundred dollars. Have you heard of the law of diminishing returns?

you can give me one reason that can tell me why it is acceptable to have a flaw with a balde, then you have beaten me and I will stop.
Click to expand...

As long as only you get to define a flaw, then you are correct. However, reasonable people can see that "not perfect" is NOT the same as having "flaws".
By your refusing to understand this point, is the crux of the matter.
 
Amazing.

Many, maybe most of my Spyderco knives have come to me with the back of the blade cut at so precise an angle to the flats that it feels like a wire edge. I take a short piece of ceramic rod and buff the edge, and it looks exactly the same, but now it feels smooth.

I use my knives to cut stuff! The edge degrades ... it's still sharp but no longer cleanly unblemished, razor sharp ... until I take that ceramic rod and buff the edge. Back to work!

Yes, it takes study and practice to get good enough to rub a piece of steel with a piece of pottery and make the steel smooth and sharp. I enjoy doing it. But then, I'm used to washing my own clothes and cooking my own meals. It's basic housekeeping, taking care of yourself and your equipment.

Quality control. Start with a design, decide on the materials, plan the production, manufacture the knives, and sample the finished product to see if the quality is acceptable. If it is not, go back to the production plan and the manufacturing process and decide where improvements would raise the level of quality.

Now raise the price of the knife. The reason the Sebenza costs so much is simple. ALL knives at that level of consistent fit & finish, durability, and function cost that much. That's what it costs to create an organization -- people and machinery -- to manufacture that kind of knife.

No production knife company works to the level of the individual knife. They establish their procedures to produce a consistent level of quality for the vast majority of their products, and a customer service department to take care of customers who get the rare but expected lemon. Checking every function of each product before shipping is expensive. It's much cheaper to do a quick replacement on a complaint, for the company and for the customer base.

If the grinds are uneven, if the blade will not center, if the lock jams or slips, that is a defect. If the edge could be sharper or the pivot is loose, that's a moment's adjustment, and my knife is PERFECT.

If I can't handle that adjustment, then it's me that's imperfect, not the knife.
 
You know Vinny, if you'd just started one thread and actually learned something from the more helpful replies, all would be well and good. But you just keep bringing up the same topic over and over again. Most of us are tired of the topic and of you. Go away for a while and engage in some self contemplation. When you have something positive to contribute here come back. We have heard your complaints (repeatedly). Most of us disagree with you at least in part. I hope you are happy with your next selection. It will in time dull. Do yourself some favors. Learn how to sharpen. Learn how to think before you type.
 
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