Spyderco vs Benhcmade

vinny77 said:
I never said that sony didnt have defective products. But a very minimal amount which they understand is unexceptable and they take care of it.

and you are telling me that 1 single tiny imperfection is acceptable. if it is then this is truly sad.
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As to the first statement: I doubed you have the insight to be the judge of that. From what you are saying it is quite obvious that you have never worked in a QC department nor in Warranty and Repair of a real company. What you are saying is at best straight out of a text book.

Your second statement, well I am a picky person. Leave it to me to find a tiny imperfection on every single mass produced item you can buy in a store.

But I think your lack of wisdom shows mainly in your early statement which was paraphrased:
"I don't give a crap about understanding any of the technical aspects, just give me the best".
How do you know what the best is, if you don't understand the issues involved?

So, how about you buy a SAK in a brick and mortar store that is close enough in perfection to your standards. Since you don't want to be a distiguishing customer, I simply tell you: Its THE BEST.

On a side note: I just got a $600 Seiko watch back from customer service. The tip of the second hand was bend, the stem was misaligned and the hands didn't point to the markers and I wanted to have it fixed. The turnaround time was 7 weeks and it came back with the hands still not pointing to the markers the stem even worse misaligned and gritty in action dust between the crystal and the face and a fingerprint on one of the luminecent markers. And you want to tell me these things don't happen at other companies. Hey I would gladly take an unfinished edge on that watch or anything else I could fix myself!
 
By the way, this thread should NOT be locked, or sent elsewhere.

It is a legitimate discussion of the factors impacting our pleasure in the knives we buy, what problems matter most to us and what we are willing to live with. That's a lot of what Bladeforums has always been about.

Besides, the discussion has remained polite, and devoid of the vulgarity and digressions of many similar threads.
 
DaveH said:
That is true, but each of the knives would then cost several hundred dollars. Have you heard of the law of diminishing returns?



As long as only you get to define a flaw, then you are correct. However, reasonable people can see that "not perfect" is NOT the same as having "flaws".
By your refusing to understand this point, is the crux of the matter.
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maybe put if they jacked the prices up nobody would buy if these other ones are just so much better. I think that factory made knives could be made to a clsoe to or near to perfect stage. It just depends how much time you wnat to put into them.

I mean we hear of Blade play, that is just the laziness of people in the factory. So that can be fixed. and with this burr, it could and should have been picked up before leaving the factory. Which i think it could have.
 
Boy if I had the $100 for a Spydie Military :grumpy:

What is another $20 for a stone?? It really frustrates me. :confused:
 
HoB said:
As to the first statement: I doubed you have the insight to be the judge of that. From what you are saying it is quite obvious that you have never worked in a QC department nor in Warranty and Repair of a real company. What you are saying is at best straight out of a text book.

Your second statement, well I am a picky person. Leave it to me to find a tiny imperfection on every single mass produced item you can buy in a store.

But I think your lack of wisdom shows mainly in your early statement which was paraphrased:
"I don't give a crap about understanding any of the technical aspects, just give me the best".
How do you know what the best is, if you don't understand the issues involved?

So, how about you buy a SAK in a brick and mortar store that is close enough in perfection to your standards. Since you don't want to be a distiguishing customer, I simply tell you: Its THE BEST.

On a side note: I just got a $600 Seiko watch back from customer service. The tip of the second hand was bend, the stem was misaligned and the hands didn't point to the markers and I wanted to have it fixed. The turnaround time was 7 weeks and it came back with the hands still not pointing to the markers the stem even worse misaligned and gritty in action dust between the crystal and the face and a fingerprint on one of the luminecent markers. And you want to tell me these things don't happen at other companies. Hey I would gladly take an unfinished edge on that watch or anything else I could fix myself!
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I would send that watch back
 
nelsonmc said:
Boy if I had the $100 for a Spydie Military :grumpy:

What is another $20 for a stone?? It really frustrates me. :confused:
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I dont, I had about $100 to spend. i saved the rest for the para-Military becosue it was said to be so much better than a Benchmade tanto balde which if you look at my older posts, this is what i wanted.

I didnt have $20

and I dont know how to sharpen a knife. So spyderco warrenty doesnt cover knives that were not sharpened correctly. So I dont know how to do this task and now i try it and screw the knife up. Now I dont ahve any more money. I am out a $118 knife and have a sharpening stone with nothing to sharpen.


you frustrate me
 
vinny77 said:
[F]actory made knives could be made to a clsoe to or near to perfect stage. It just depends how much time you wnat to put into them.
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Exactly. Now apply what you have learned in school. Time = money = price.

As for "lazy" workers, have you ever worked in a factory? You might find it a broadening experience.
 
vinny77 said:
I dont, I had about $100 to spend. i saved the rest for the para-Military becosue it was said to be so much better than a Benchmade tanto balde which if you look at my older posts, this is what i wanted.

I didnt have $20

and I dont know how to sharpen a knife. So spyderco warrenty doesnt cover knives that were not sharpened correctly. So I dont know how to do this task and now i try it and screw the knife up. Now I dont ahve any more money. I am out a $118 knife and have a sharpening stone with nothing to sharpen.


you frustrate me
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Maybe you should have bought a Ka-bar Dozier and a sharpening stone and taught yourself how to sharpen before you dropped the big bucks on a expensive knife that from what I get you know nothing about. I didn't attck you once, I didn't say you frustrated me, the situation frustrates me. I'm done here, you are a lost cause. Wish you the best.
 
Fisher,

With all that has been said, I will also tell you that I have and use an equal amount of Spydercos and Benchmades, probably 30 each. I have liner locks, axis locks, and fixed blades.

I have many handmades as well ranging from John Grecos as the least expensive, up to knives that cost $500 or more.

Not knowing your ages, I don't intend to insult.....

Younger knife nuts don't realize that the knives being produced by factories or handmakers, are by and large the BEST knives ever produced. Ever.

When I was a kid, there were no knives being produced that compare in materials, technology, and design.

There were some companies that produced high quality slipjoints and fixed blades, and those companies were pretty few in number....a lot of them German, and several American, a few French.

Vinny,

You won't listen to rational information. You wish to continue on the line that Spyderco is no up to your standard of quality. That is fine, to each his own. Just realize, you won't get much sympathy here or anywhere else concerning your issues with their products. No, that company is not God like.
They do make a fine product(some might say superior) and it's sad that you can't bring yourself to use the tool and determine on your own whether it is a good tool.

I might suggest, at the risk of getting jumped on by Case fans, that you look into buying Case knives. They are pretty, and well fitted and finished, in most instances. They also would seem to fit into your dollar range.The usefullness of their blade steel is hotly debated.

Better yet, SAKs would be better yet. I think in your other threads you mentioned that the SAK was the standard that you judged the Para by.(sad)


Good luck, and please do me a favor.....you really ought to dump this thread and move on to something else. It is getting redundant, and nothing usefull
is likely to come out of it.


Regards,

Thomas Zinn
 
Vinny, if you needed a car but didn't have money to put gas into it after you paid for the car itself, what good would it do you? If you're so short of money, you have to learn to allocate your resources better.

Think about what nelsonmc just said, and get a Ka-Bar Dozier and a Gatco Tri-Seps, and do some reading about sharpening. Here's a few pages with good background information:

BladeForums.com Knife FAQs, especially Knife Sharpening by Joe Talmadge
Sharpening Made Easy
Convex Grind F.A.Q. by Buzzbait.
 
Esav Benyamin said:
Amazing.

Many, maybe most of my Spyderco knives have come to me with the back of the blade cut at so precise an angle to the flats that it feels like a wire edge. I take a short piece of ceramic rod and buff the edge, and it looks exactly the same, but now it feels smooth.

I use my knives to cut stuff! The edge degrades ... it's still sharp but no longer cleanly unblemished, razor sharp ... until I take that ceramic rod and buff the edge. Back to work!

Yes, it takes study and practice to get good enough to rub a piece of steel with a piece of pottery and make the steel smooth and sharp. I enjoy doing it. But then, I'm used to washing my own clothes and cooking my own meals. It's basic housekeeping, taking care of yourself and your equipment.

Quality control. Start with a design, decide on the materials, plan the production, manufacture the knives, and sample the finished product to see if the quality is acceptable. If it is not, go back to the production plan and the manufacturing process and decide where improvements would raise the level of quality.

Now raise the price of the knife. The reason the Sebenza costs so much is simple. ALL knives at that level of consistent fit & finish, durability, and function cost that much. That's what it costs to create an organization -- people and machinery -- to manufacture that kind of knife.

No production knife company works to the level of the individual knife. They establish their procedures to produce a consistent level of quality for the vast majority of their products, and a customer service department to take care of customers who get the rare but expected lemon. Checking every function of each product before shipping is expensive. It's much cheaper to do a quick replacement on a complaint, for the company and for the customer base.

If the grinds are uneven, if the blade will not center, if the lock jams or slips, that is a defect. If the edge could be sharper or the pivot is loose, that's a moment's adjustment, and my knife is PERFECT.

If I can't handle that adjustment, then it's me that's imperfect, not the knife.
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That is very well put. It actually helped me to understand things better. Thanks for the info. Hey, we're all here to learn and help others and also just chat here and there.

:)

Thanks to those who have explained things in greater detail. It has at least helped me. :)

Edit: I have to say that it does help me understand better when I compare it to watches. I really like watches and I own a $350 Seiko. I guess it's no different than buying a good knife. I paid for the watch with my own money and I'm very happy with it. I now see that it's just all about what you like. I just wanted to share that. :D

Cheers,
David (Fisher of Men)
 
:( Such a sad thing :(

I'll sideline myself and watch this play out. Have nothing else to offer.

Be gentle with Vinny guys.


Thomas Zinn :rolleyes:
 
Vinny is not entirely wrong. He is looking for the optimum interface of price and quality.

"There is hardly anything in the world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little cheaper and the people who consider price only are this man's lawful prey." John Ruskin
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But part of the price is also our ability to use and maintain our equipment properly. It's not all up to the manufacturer. Sal Glesser makes a great knife, but when I buy one, it doesn't entitle me to have him stop in to cut up my dinner for me.

What is a defect? When I was a kid, we loved to put together model planes and ships. The first thing we did was remove the pieces from the framework they were molded on, and take a small pocket knife (:D) and clean the flash off those pieces. The flash was not a defect, to grumble over, it was part of the process we enjoyed, working with our hands.

If a piece was missing or broken, that would have been a defect.
 
i thoght me buying a knife of a better steal would allow the knife to hold its edge longer. i dont realy cut alot of stuff. I am not cutting down a tree.
 
Zinn1348,

No insult taken :) It's all good. Thanks for explaining stuff to me. That's why I'm here....to learn. :)

I"m 31 years old by the way :)
 
There comes a point when "better steel" only means more expensive. Some steels are so much better that you really can't tell until you do try to cut down a tree. At ordinary levels of use, AUS-8 is great -- and a lockback is as reliable as any lock you will find for daily use.

Get the Ka-Bar Dozier or an equivalent Spyderco, a lightweight Zytel-handled lockback. You can carry it in a shirt pocket. The blade will be thin and therefore inherently sharp. You can carry it practically everywhere without it getting in the way.
 
No matter what, eventually you will need to get a sharpener and work on the edge. It is honestly a very enjoyable pastime to sharpen a knife. I find myself sharpening already sharp knives at times. On a nice day go sit out in the yard with a Case Trapper and a stick, wittle away, then pull out a pocket stone and put a fresh edge on. It's very relaxing, almost like meditation. I guess that is why I wouldn't care if I bought a knife and it had a burr or wasn't as sharp as I like.
 
Vinny, except for the super-hard-to-sharpen steels, stropping the edge on plain old brown cardboard will polish the edge and keep it sharp. Only after pretty heavy use (or to remove a burr or nick) would you need to go to serious sharpener.

The ability to keep your knives sharp is an essential part of the religious lore of the KnifeKnut Klan. ;) They collect sharpeners like they collect knives. (I can't pass up an Arkansas stone at a house sale. I could build a small wall with 'em.) Soon, you will be invited to parties just because you can leave the knives sharp (either that or because you only drink Coke).
 
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