Spyderman

Originally posted by ritalinkid
It seems to me that the quality of the early Magnums far surpassed the latter knives,

My opinion...live with it.
Yes, sometimes a cheap knife can surpass a known brand, but that isn't the point here. The guy thought he was buying a German knife, and it is partly because of that that he spent the money.

The onus is on the dealer(sucky as that sometimes is) to make sure that his facts are clear reguarding the specifics of a product.
 
Let a year lapse, and what is required to "make it right" is not nearly as simple as you seem to want it to be.

Again your opinion.

Sorry time does not change a mistake.

It is very simple if the dealer is still in business and is honest they do something to make up for the mistake. It is very simple to do what is right and correct a mistake.

Why do you think it would be difficult?

There are way to many knife dealers out there who stand by the authenticity of their descriptions as long as they are in business. That is another fact that you do not seem to have the capacity to grasp.
 
Originally posted by ritalinkid
Many buyers rely on auctions due to restrictions on purchases. Hell just look at the clones when they first come out. Remember the clone of the LCC those sold for $60 plus now $10 give or take. The Halo clones same thing.

Do you mean by "restrictions on purchases " people will pay a premium to buy a knife that they legally can't buy through a licensed business? By "clones" do you mean illegal knockoffs of registered or patented designs? Just think how much they WOULD have sold for if they had been misrepresented and people thought they were getting the real thing!

I find the concept of these "auctions" troubling.
 
Originally posted by Bastid
Again your opinion.

Sorry time does not change a mistake.

It is very simple if the dealer is still in business and is honest they do something to make up for the mistake. It is very simple to do what is right and correct a mistake.

Why do you think it would be difficult?

There are way to many knife dealers out there who stand by the authenticity of their descriptions as long as they are in business. That is another fact that you do not seem to have the capacity to grasp.

Well, if this had happened just last week, masterchef could send the knife back and 8 legged could refund his money.
That's not possible now, obviously.

So, now that it is over a year later, and due to inflation, and the interest masterchef's money could have been earning, I guess 8 legged needs to start calculating just exactly what he owes, so he can make it right.

Now, I'm sure, you being so much better off than me, and so on & so forth, as you have made clear, you can offer a much more proper solution for 8 legged, and I'm sure he'll appreciate it.

And thank you for your sage advice on friendship in general, but I'm quite happy with the friends I have now, although I am quite sure they are not nearly as good as yours.
 
For a "dullone" you grasp the meaning of my post quite well. :) That is except for a certain point. In fact some unscrupulous sellers, by that I mean unprincipled lowlife (interject favorite derragatory adjective here), advertised the clones, illegal knockoffs of registered or patented designs, in their titles using the copyrighted name of the original. But to my knowlage did not claim the knife to be an original. But, in this instance a clone, illegal knockoffs of registered or patented designs, of a Boker was not sold as a Boker. A Boker was advertised and a Boker was recieved. The only error was, as I understand it, the country in which the knife was produced.
When someone purchases a Ford or Chevy produced in Canada does this mean they are buying a clone, illegal knockoffs of registered or patented designs?:)
 
Um ... ritalinkid ... maybe all this extraneous stuff has confused you.... If you look back in the thread a ways you'll see the letters from Boker USA explaining. Briefly, a Boker was advertised, a Magnum was received. There is no relationship between the two companies.
 
That's funny i was under the impression....
http://www.bokerusa.com/default2.asp
I don't know what I was thinking to believe there is some kind of relationship between companies. But if you say there is none I will take you at your word that there is no relationship between companies, that they are completely seperate and unrelated they have nothing to do with each other at all, no ties no shared website nothing of the sort. Boy do I feel stupid. :)
 
Originally posted by ritalinkid
A Boker was advertised and a Boker was recieved. :)

I believe you've misunderstood what transpired. My understanding is that a Magnum brand knife was represented by Spyderman as being manufactured by Boker, in Germany. And was purchased based on this representation.

The fact is this Magnum brand is of Twainese manufacture and as NO affiliation with the Boker brand.
Correct me if I'm wrong.
 
Mike I used to deal (before I started participating here under my real name rather than this W&C abberation).

(Come off the self pity Mike, you have called me petty and insuated other many other things in this thread. You are reaching way to far on the last one and have set your self up for the friends remarks.

If what you posted about your friends was true I honestly do feel sorry for you. I am trying to make a point about what friends really are. You already admitted that you can trust your friends. I have a feeling that you do not go out and veryfy everything they say or do and that you actually trust them. My point is that your posts can be B.S. at times. Just to stir things up or further your agenda of herds and post counts.

It would be possible if the knife was returned to me any many dealers I know. I and many others would insist on it if a mistake had been made in the description. I just sold the last of my Case Classic inventory to a guy last week face to face. He knows he can get his money back from me if he returns the knife in the condition it was sold (time is of no importance). I told him he could do it as long as I was allive. Total sale was very close to 3,000.00. (If you do not belive me I will be glad to provide the reference.) Even now as a non-dealer it is simple to price a knife fairly and stand behind the price. All you have to do is be honest and price it fairly. I called the man a week later to make sure he was still happy. Nothing difficult there.

I sold the knives at prices below what they sell for on ebay. (Researched every knife.) Nothing difficult there about offering his money back.

I have sent a knife to someone on ebay who overbid way too much for a more fair price. (Yeah I know that may have been a mistake on my part. since there were other bids.) At least I did not rip some one off.

What is difficult? (is it the fact that the knife is not around.)


If one of the hundereds of old knives I have sold was counterfit or I described it wrong and the person got mad and brought it back to me in pieces (time does not matter- I hope you grasp that by now). What is difficult about making the incorrect claim that I made good by another knife or some cash that makes up for the loss. We are talking about less than 200 bucks here Mike. This guys is a knife dealer.

Nothing difficult so far.

A couple hundred bucks or more is not worth my honesty. Sorry no difficulty there either, because I care what others who I have respect for think of me. (To a degree what those people think of me influences me about how I think of myself as do friends I can trust). It is just the way things should be with all dealers and the way things are with many dealers. It also lessens the possibility of self dellusion of honesty when it is not there.


Mike, again the question. What is difficult about a knife dealer makeing a deal right? If it is a couple of hundred bucks, they should not be dealing knives.

You said it was difficult. I am asking why?



Here is another question you might not answer.

You come across to most folks as being negative towards B.F. and its old membership. You go into a situation with a point, sometimes you are dead on right, but then you start slinging generalites around (and become dead on wrong). Yes there are problems that is a given. There are thousands who participate here as well as thousands who are not registered. You choose to harp on your agenda constantly. (never offering it constuctively to a moderator or to Spark that I know of, but typically in the middle of a controversy that you have nothing to do with.) I am not sure if it is a coincidence or not, but I have a feeling you are not a fool.

The result of your posting in that manner is that the problem becomes bigger than it really is and you get a lot of attention. (Before you strike out rather than deal with what I am writing - again) I am not saying that is your intention, it just happens to be the obvious result of your efforts and I am pretty darn sure you anticipate and look for the chances to obtain those results with many of your posts.)

There have been very few occasions when the membership has made mistakes in condeming them. I made the mistake of trying to sell a knife for kisa or whatever his/her name is. I really can not narrow one down, but it has happened. You have not provided one example. If it was so blatent and commonplace you would have done so by now.

The second question is why do you do it?
 
That's funny i was under the impression....
http://www.bokerusa.com/default2.asp
you can see how one can be easily misled.
-------------------------------------------------------------

Nope they do not make the Kalinishnikov watches either :D.
 
Yeah I know but it is easy to fall for something read my edit to my last post (made in fun to depict what an unscupulous seller might say) Just my feeble attempt at bringing some snikers to an other wise serious discussion.
It seems thay have always been refered to as "Boker" Magnums. This may be in large part to this website and others perpetuating the name. Personally I have never been that interested in the Bokers and until now really never realized they were not Bokers. I knew they were not German made and believed they were "contracted out".
 
Just for giggles do a search on Boker Magnum, it is unbelievable how many use the term Boker Magnum knife describing Magnum knives.
 
Originally posted by ritalinkid
Just for giggles do a search on Boker Magnum, it is unbelievable how many use the term Boker Magnum knife describing Magnum knives.

That's a sad thing, and an error on Boker's part. They've never disassociated themselves really well from the Magnum brand(aside from direct e-mail questioning).

It makes it really easy for the lay buyer to get taken.
 
Here's a question. Do the knives or boxes/packaging actually say boker on them anywhere? Besides a possible label of "Imported by Boker USA"

Just for curiosity, it's alreayd been sstablished that these were never made in Germany, and as such, this was misrepresented.
 
Mike, again the question. What is difficult about a knife dealer makeing a deal right? If it is a couple of hundred bucks, they should not be dealing knives.

You said it was difficult. I am asking why?


Well, since I am not the dealer, I don't know what will be difficult for him.
I said that having let a year lapse and not having the knife at all, seems like it makes it a bit less clear on just what might make it right.

Maybe 8 legged will post here, and satisfy my curiousity as concerns what it is he requires to feel right about it.
Maybe refunding the original price paid will do it, or the apology masterchef decided on there at the end, or something else. It's his problem, and he can do whatever he requires to feel right about it.

You have given a clear explanation of what you would do, and that's all well and good.
However, what if I myself would do even more, go even farther. Say, refund all the money and then a few hundred more, just because I made a mistake?
Does that make me more even more ethical and morally superior than you are, because all you would do is refund the price paid?

You do whatever you need to do to feel right, and I'll do whatever I need to do.

That's pretty easy to understand, and for me it's also very easy to do.
 
Originally posted by etp777
Here's a question. Do the knives or boxes/packaging actually say boker on them anywhere? Besides a possible label of "Imported by Boker USA"

I can only speak to a few years back, the boxes were marked Magnum, and had the country of origin on the box. Boker did plaster a Boker shipping/inventory(i.e. Magnum model#) marker on the boxes, but any knifeman worth his salt, knew where they came from.
 
Well, since I am not the dealer, I don't know what will be difficult for him.


Then why did you say it is difficult. :D.

Yes you would have higher standards than I do if you gave the person you wronged (intentionally or not) multiples of their money back. Yes I consider that a good thing.

If a wrong was my mistake I would do my best to make sure the customer did not incurr a loss including the time value of money based on a generous inflation percentage, but I am not sure I would do more than that.

(That would get a little difficult (in more ways than one especially if it comprised a lot of money). Accounts and financial planners talk about time value of money, but let's face it there is no way to measure it. After all the cash could be taken to Vegas on a lucky streak (or a losing streak) It could be invested in a sector fund that went through the roof short term or bottomed out.)


In posting that do you not see that you contradict your statement that it would be difficult. Seems pretty clear to me.

Now about question number two above? You know the one about posting your agenda in threads that already have traffic and controversy. I can respect the fact that you do not want to see people piled on for no reason. (I do not have respect for the way you post that agenda).

I also think it is good when someone is not straight forward in a deal that it becomes known. It is human nature for that type of thing to be condemned by the victim and friends. You paint the picture at first that it is a massive B.F. problem then expand it to other forums. Mike your right it is a problem. Trouble is it is not that big when compared with the positives. Trouble is that you make the problem bigger than it is. (In short, it is there, it is not as big as you make it out to be, by where you post your thoughts you inflate the perception in others.

Question is again. Why do you do it? (Please do not deny that you do the results have been too obvious no matter what the intention is.)
 
Then why did you say it is difficult. :D.


Okay, I can see you want to stick at semantics.
You finally found something you can pick at, and that I find so boring as to be not worth discussing.
Maybe it will not be hard for him at all.
That make you happy?
Maybe his standards will match or exceed yours, and maybe they won't. Pass judgement on him before or after you find out, makes no difference to me either way.

Yes you would have higher standards than I do if you gave the person you wronged (intentionally or not) multiples of their money back. Yes I consider that a good thing.


So then I would be better than you, were I to do that? Why not just raise yourself to my standards, and be equal? Why not just do everything you possibly can to begin with, and then some? How much is enough?
Quite a few you have stated in on uncertain terms exacly what 8 legged needs to do, based I presume, on what they would do, or would like to think they would do.
That's pointless, and has no bearing at all on what 8 legged needs to do. He'll do whatever he feels he needs to do, or he won't. YOu can't force him to do anything.

In posting that do you not see that you contradict your statement that it would be difficult. Seems pretty clear to me.


No, it's not a contradiction at all. If you can't understand it, I obviously can't explain it.
There is no set standard for every single person, for every single situation. It's just not that black & white, and certainly not in this situation.
What he might have done at the beginning can indeed be different than what he will do now.
People do change, their perceptions change, and most of the time they move on.

Now about question number two above? You know the one about posting your agenda in threads that already have traffic and controversy. I can respect the fact that you do not want to see people piled on for no reason. (I do not have respect for the way you post that agenda).


What is it with this "agenda" you think I have? I ignored it until now, but really, what is it you are trying to say here?
I have no agenda, no ulterior motive, and no hidden meanings. I say exactly what I mean, and if you do not understand it then say so and I'll probably try to explain it better.

I see the usual people piling on someone, repeating after each other like parrots, and I make it clear that I do not agree.
That's not an agenda.

I also think it is good when someone is not straight forward in a deal that it becomes known


Yes, I do to. That is why I acknowledged that this forum does serve a purpose.

It is human nature for that type of thing to be condemned by the victim and friends. You paint the picture at first that it is a massive B.F. problem then expand it to other forums.


No, it's you and one other who are saying I make it out to be a massive problem.
If it were indeed a massive problem, I would be posting quite a bit more than I do now. That much at least should be obvious, and without question.

Trouble is that you make the problem bigger than it is. (In short, it is there, it is not as big as you make it out to be, by where you post your thoughts you inflate the perception in others.


Yes, most people are so dumb it would never occur to them, unless of course I plant the idea in their heads. Just more pathetic morons, like the ones who emailed me?
And again the irony..you condemn me for making sweeping generalizations about large groups of people, and then there you are doing it yourself.
How do you work all that out?

Question is again. Why do you do it? (Please do not deny that you do the results have been too obvious no matter what the intention is.)


Are you serious? How many times do have I have to explain why I post, before the simple concept is grasped?

I post for the same reason ppl post crap like, "me too", or "I could not have said it better myself", or anything else along those lines...because I feel the need to make my opinion known, and to point out how lame someone is being.
I post for the same reason you continue posting in this thread.

People don't mind nastiness, as long as everyone is clear on who to be nasty to, and it's not them on the recieving end.
Take a look at the recent Strider threads to see how that works.

Like I said, bladeforums is, for the most part, a great place, and one of the better forums on the net, but it's not perfect, it never will be, but that's no reason to try to ignore what's wrong with it and just make out like it's no big deal.
 
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