State of the state.....

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I like, Neutral.
One more thing. With the coming shift in power, I have witnessed some knife collectors from China dropping some big money on knives and not batting an eye. The same holds true for some collectors from Russia.
rolf
 
Lycosa said:
I like, Neutral.
One more thing. With the coming shift in power, I have witnessed some knife collectors from China dropping some big money on knives and not batting an eye. The same holds true for some collectors from Russia.
rolf
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That was more readily apparent two years ago. Between embargoes and oil prices, Russians have not had as much discretionary $$ to play with.

Changing laws have been a part of Chinese buying pattern diminishing.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
There is a similar thread going on in another knife forum started by Tom Mayo. His initial comment was that quite a few well-known makers attending the Gathering left without selling many of their knives, something rather unusual. Make of that what you will.


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lawfor said:
There is a similar thread going on in another knife forum started by Tom Mayo. His initial comment was that quite a few well-known makers attending the Gathering left without selling many of their knives, something rather unusual. Make of that what you will.
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I know two makers that were using Instagram during the show, selling little at the show, selling out on Instagram. I recognize the power of the medium, and simply choose not to participate. The few times I have checked it out didn't give me any new insights nor did it drive me to buy.....but it works for others and that is what is important.

Larry Brahms puts on a first class show with the Gathering...really. I have attended probably 7 times and exhibited twice, once with my own table and once with Moteng NA as a representative.

Haven't gone the last two years as there was no reason for me to(buying direct from makers who make work I like and feel is a good purchase, not really caring about the lotteries....).

Likely will go next year, as it's a fun show(close too, sometimes I drive), and Blade is likely off the table for me in the near future(hate ATL, can't take time off work, $$$).

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
Kohai999 said:
That was more readily apparent two years ago. Between embargoes and oil prices, Russians have not had as much discretionary $$ to play with.

Changing laws have been a part of Chinese buying pattern diminishing.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
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Makers I know who attend the Helsinki show say sales over there have slowed down because the russiansdo not have the money they used to have anymore like STeven said.
Taiwan has been good lately thanks to facebook and Instagram.
A lot of knifeaction on Instagram with WIP's, sales, open bids and lotteries and such.
 
My sales are the highest they have ever been overall. My sales here on BF are the lowest they have ever been.
Love it or Hate it Instagram and facebook to a lesser degree are the new medium for sales and following makers.

I post stuff here for the genuine conversation and knowledge shared. I post stuff on Instagram to sell knives.
 
BenR.T. said:
My sales are the highest they have ever been overall. My sales here on BF are the lowest they have ever been.
Love it or Hate it Instagram and facebook to a lesser degree are the new medium for sales and following makers.

I post stuff here for the genuine conversation and knowledge shared. I post stuff on Instagram to sell knives.
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I'd be very interested in the aftermarket sales and prices of your knives in the following year.

Love it or hate it, while a maker may enjoy robust initial sales, market position is not completely defined by the initial sale....it's determined by the sale AFTER it.

Truly hope that your market position maintains!

You should probably credit Joe Paranee as much, if not more, for your sales as Instagram.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
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Adapt or die. Make adjustments. Look for openings.
Ben and other makers are on to it.
Again, great thread!
rolf
 
MANY Makers/Collectors can thank Joe for his enthusiasm and knowledge of the Industry, STeven as well.

I enjoy rooting around a couple of Forums but if I really want to contact a Maker, place an order, or buy a knife, I usually go to FB because those folks are checking their feed and respond very quickly for the most part.

There's still a lot of shenanigans and game playing that goes on that is, sadly IMO, so prevalent these days as are the Lotteries, Open Bid, etc., but I'm not jammed into gridlock on an isle in Atlanta, can remove myself from such, and move onto another Maker not so inclined to play games and just sell knives.

I HATE Las Vegas and will never return so The Gathering is a moot point for me plus I think a lot of Makers set up just to be there for their posterity....to be seen for notoriety sake.




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Kohai999 said:
I'd be very interested in the aftermarket sales and prices of your knives in the following year.

Love it or hate it, while a maker may enjoy robust initial sales, market position is not completely defined by the initial sale....it's determined by the sale AFTER it.

Truly hope that your market position maintains!

You should probably credit Joe Paranee as much, if not more, for your sales as Instagram.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
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Joe knows I love him. He has done major service for many makers, including myself. It is much appreciated. I thank him every chance I get.

That said, a good portion of my sales are new buyers or buyers that only found me because of social media.

I also don't think resale or how quickly a knife sells on a vendors site is an indicator of the actual market for my work (or someone elses). A lot of these guys don't visit or even know about the custom knife dealers. And why would they need to. I am selling cheaper usually and they can buy direct from me. If this is all about relationship with a maker, I think that is a positive thing. Being full time, I can keep up with the demand at this point. Just my experience anyway.
 
BenR.T. said:
I am selling cheaper usually and they can buy direct from me. If this is all about relationship with a maker, I think that is a positive thing.
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What I strive for, a personal relationship with Makers has meant more to me over the years than many of the knives I have.

I know many Makers I truly enjoy the camaraderie of that I have never bought a knife from and chances are will never be able to afford one but their spirit and kindness, along with their insight, integrity, and intelligence are good enough for me.


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BenR.T. said:
I also don't think resale or how quickly a knife sells on a vendors site is an indicator of the actual market for my work (or someone elses). A lot of these guys don't visit or even know about the custom knife dealers. And why would they need to. I am selling cheaper usually and they can buy direct from me. If this is all about relationship with a maker, I think that is a positive thing. Being full time, I can keep up with the demand at this point. Just my experience anyway.
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I really think you are missing what this is all about Ben. You have that perspective that "If the buyer is happy with my work, that is all that matters". It's a fairly short term perspective in the scheme of things.

The knife MARKET for custom knives is comprised of makers, collectors, dealers, magazine/book producers, material suppliers, photographers, sheath makers, case makers..........even if you live under a rock and do it all yourself, unless you smelt the steel and grow/manufacture the handle materials(Thunderstorm, anyone;)) you are a part of a much larger economy.

I'm not saying that this is the case, but if your present buyers are purchasing based purely on emotion and a connection with you, they could likely be the "suckers" that Lorien refers to in his above posts....and I agree with what he said because I have seen it, countless times.

You pay attention to your market(that is a big part of your job, and you do it well)

I pay attention to THE market, that is all that I can see. This includes frank and pointed conversations with dealers(Dave Ellis, Dan Delavan, Dan Favano, Mark Strauss, Dave Harvey, Les Robertson), makers(Larry Fuegen, Brian Nadeau, Harvey Dean, Tim Wright, Matt Diskin, Allen Elishewitz, Ernie Emerson), manufacturers who work with custom makers(Benchmade, Kershaw, Microtech, ProTech) other collectors who are ACTIVE(Bob Betzner, Dave Ellis, Adam Jacobs, Phil Lobred, Martin Reingold, Rich Slaughter)...and assorted folk who many have never heard of.

What I am saying is that you have YOUR experience, and I distill a lot of the lessons that I have personally learned, and filter them through a collective of experiences belonging to many that have more time, wisdom or smarts than I do.

At the end of it, this is a product. For me and many others, the relationship with the maker is very important, but THE most important relationship is with the knife. The knife lives on long after we do hopefully, and the path that it takes is as interesting a story as any other.

That's MY experience.

You might see the tail or the trunk, I try to see the whole elephant.....and it doesn't suit you any better than it does Coop to tell your potential buyers that they should maybe wait and see if you are still making knives in a year before they spend their money.

The Market is full of "Insert Name Here" Who? makers who did exceptional work, may have been very successful during their time, and now, even seasoned dealers and collectors have no idea who they are/were and couldn't sell one of those knives that might have cost $750.00 at the time for $250.00. Who do you think takes it is the nuts when that happens? (Hint....not the maker).

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
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It seems like magazines and print are struggling as well. I do enjoy my social networks, but I would really hate to see shows and magazines fade out.

The thing with social media is that if you don't stay ahead of it all, then you will screw yourself over. The sites come and go. Where will we be if they introduce an update to the websites that kill your popularity? Or worse, sell out to someone, like MySpace did. By now most of you that use Instagram have noticed the update where it doesn't show who you watch in the order that it is posted, but who it thinks you like the most. Facebook did one a while back that showed less people that follow you, what you post. Obviously, both are to try to get you to buy ads.

Everyone will have to start using SnapChat like me if they keep doing stuff like that. 😜
 
No one can see "the whole picture" because of all the private direct sales over the internet. There are thousands of knives being sold every month a single person just can not be aware of it.

No one is monitoring it, no one is measuring it.

A person can have a bubble view from those inside their bubble, but there are many knife sales occurring outside that bubble. And there many many bubbles and each have come to a conclusion trying to apply their bubble view onto the entire hobby.
 
This is a great thread. I think it is important to have this discussion because things are changing so fast.

Social media has revolutionised the world and changed the buying patterns of the under 30’s forever. They connect and talk to each other over their smartphones. Even laptops and pads are a thing of the past.

Forums are dying. BF and USN are the exception but there have been no new successful knife forums opened and the smaller ones out there are struggling to make it.
I closed my forum SABlade for this very reason, all my members went over to Instagram and FB leaving the forum devoid of substance. Nothing to be done, it is the way of the world.

We have no idea of what is being sold privately through Instagram, Facebook and other. We can guess but it is probably far bigger than we can ever imagine.
Makers want sales. They have bills and mortgages to pay and they must use the selling method which the buyers today demand. That is no longer shows, print media and forums. It is direct access smartphone based social media.

I think that it is also important to remember that the demographic of the buyer is changing. The under 30’s don’t care about the “classic master makers” They have not grown up with them and their names mean nothing to them. They buy instantly using social media and expect instant gratification which follows the model of all internet sales.
Don’t tell a younger buyer he needs to wait 18 months for his new all singing and dancing tacticool. He wants it shipped by the end of the week and that is the expectation which the maker must meet. Amazon has set this expectation, and the youngsters today demand it.

I too thought that the high end tactical market was headed south as the bubble contacted and the world recession bit. I was wrong. The market continues to thrive pushed forward by the access that we all have to instant purchase gratification.

So where does it leave old farts like me? I plod along visiting shows, ordering from makers (who still take orders) and maintaining my relationships with makers, collectors, and like minded knife lovers.
But I am under no illusion that I am a dying breed.
 
Steven65 said:
They expect instant gratification which follows the model of all internet sales.
Don’t tell a younger buyer he needs to wait 18 months for his new all singing and dancing tacticool. He wants it shipped by the end of the week
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Excellent Post Steven65. Your above post is spot on and might be generous concerning their patience on shipping.
People today live on their smart phones.
 
Steven65 said:
This is a great thread. I think it is important to have this discussion because things are changing so fast.

Social media has revolutionised the world and changed the buying patterns of the under 30’s forever. They connect and talk to each other over their smartphones. Even laptops and pads are a thing of the past.

Forums are dying. BF and USN are the exception but there have been no new successful knife forums opened and the smaller ones out there are struggling to make it.
I closed my forum SABlade for this very reason, all my members went over to Instagram and FB leaving the forum devoid of substance. Nothing to be done, it is the way of the world.

We have no idea of what is being sold privately through Instagram, Facebook and other. We can guess but it is probably far bigger than we can ever imagine.
Makers want sales. They have bills and mortgages to pay and they must use the selling method which the buyers today demand. That is no longer shows, print media and forums. It is direct access smartphone based social media.

I think that it is also important to remember that the demographic of the buyer is changing. The under 30’s don’t care about the “classic master makers” They have not grown up with them and their names mean nothing to them. They buy instantly using social media and expect instant gratification which follows the model of all internet sales.
Don’t tell a younger buyer he needs to wait 18 months for his new all singing and dancing tacticool. He wants it shipped by the end of the week and that is the expectation which the maker must meet. Amazon has set this expectation, and the youngsters today demand it.

I too thought that the high end tactical market was headed south as the bubble contacted and the world recession bit. I was wrong. The market continues to thrive pushed forward by the access that we all have to instant purchase gratification.

So where does it leave old farts like me? I plod along visiting shows, ordering from makers (who still take orders) and maintaining my relationships with makers, collectors, and like minded knife lovers.
But I am under no illusion that I am a dying breed.
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This is exactly what is going on.
 
18 months wouldn't be bad. I'm supposedly on 2 Makers lists 1 for 8 years since 2008 and the other for 6 years from 2010.
 
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