State of the state.....

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Steven65 said:
This is a great thread. I think it is important to have this discussion because things are changing so fast.

Social media has revolutionised the world and changed the buying patterns of the under 30’s forever. They connect and talk to each other over their smartphones. Even laptops and pads are a thing of the past.

Forums are dying. BF and USN are the exception but there have been no new successful knife forums opened and the smaller ones out there are struggling to make it.
I closed my forum SABlade for this very reason, all my members went over to Instagram and FB leaving the forum devoid of substance. Nothing to be done, it is the way of the world.

We have no idea of what is being sold privately through Instagram, Facebook and other. We can guess but it is probably far bigger than we can ever imagine.
Makers want sales. They have bills and mortgages to pay and they must use the selling method which the buyers today demand. That is no longer shows, print media and forums. It is direct access smartphone based social media.

I think that it is also important to remember that the demographic of the buyer is changing. The under 30’s don’t care about the “classic master makers” They have not grown up with them and their names mean nothing to them. They buy instantly using social media and expect instant gratification which follows the model of all internet sales.
Don’t tell a younger buyer he needs to wait 18 months for his new all singing and dancing tacticool. He wants it shipped by the end of the week and that is the expectation which the maker must meet. Amazon has set this expectation, and the youngsters today demand it.

I too thought that the high end tactical market was headed south as the bubble contacted and the world recession bit. I was wrong. The market continues to thrive pushed forward by the access that we all have to instant purchase gratification.

So where does it leave old farts like me? I plod along visiting shows, ordering from makers (who still take orders) and maintaining my relationships with makers, collectors, and like minded knife lovers.
But I am under no illusion that I am a dying breed.
Click to expand...

Nailed It!!!
 
^^^ Steven65 is 'pointed' in his remarks. I was too. ;)

So, I'm reading the the market for established older, more traditional makers, is losing interest and sales, and although there are NEW buyers out there, they are following a notably different course.

One that is set up to disappoint somewhere down the road. It's the 'bubble' which has been referred to for years. For the less bombastic it is probably happening now (even in DT's.) Still, it's a candle which is still burning fairly strong.

Which leaves us with Handmade Kitchen Knives as a growth area at present. Not so sure it's nearly as 'cool' as the technical mechanics of 'folding prybars', but it has interest WAY outside of this niche market.

(Has anyone noted that celebrity biker/builder Jesse James is now making forged kitchen knives also? Follow 'Pope of Welding' on IG to see.)

For all the individual bubbles of knowledge, input, and opinion out there, this FORUM is the most effective to have serious dialog. This thread is case in point.

I'm still learning. Good thread.

Coop
 
Be like water my friends...


[video=youtube_share;epnw_S-qqdI]http://youtu.be/epnw_S-qqdI[/video]
 
Steven65 said:
This is a great thread. I think it is important to have this discussion because things are changing so fast.

Social media has revolutionised the world and changed the buying patterns of the under 30’s forever. They connect and talk to each other over their smartphones. Even laptops and pads are a thing of the past.

Forums are dying. BF and USN are the exception but there have been no new successful knife forums opened and the smaller ones out there are struggling to make it.
I closed my forum SABlade for this very reason, all my members went over to Instagram and FB leaving the forum devoid of substance. Nothing to be done, it is the way of the world.

We have no idea of what is being sold privately through Instagram, Facebook and other. We can guess but it is probably far bigger than we can ever imagine.
Makers want sales. They have bills and mortgages to pay and they must use the selling method which the buyers today demand. That is no longer shows, print media and forums. It is direct access smartphone based social media.

I think that it is also important to remember that the demographic of the buyer is changing. The under 30’s don’t care about the “classic master makers” They have not grown up with them and their names mean nothing to them. They buy instantly using social media and expect instant gratification which follows the model of all internet sales.
Don’t tell a younger buyer he needs to wait 18 months for his new all singing and dancing tacticool. He wants it shipped by the end of the week and that is the expectation which the maker must meet. Amazon has set this expectation, and the youngsters today demand it.

I too thought that the high end tactical market was headed south as the bubble contacted and the world recession bit. I was wrong. The market continues to thrive pushed forward by the access that we all have to instant purchase gratification.

So where does it leave old farts like me? I plod along visiting shows, ordering from makers (who still take orders) and maintaining my relationships with makers, collectors, and like minded knife lovers.
But I am under no illusion that I am a dying breed.
Click to expand...

Bingo

You are the man my brother
 
BenR.T. said:
Be like water my friends...


[video=youtube_share;epnw_S-qqdI]http://youtu.be/epnw_S-qqdI[/video]
Click to expand...

Ben you just keep doing what your doing and feed that wonderful family

The genre you are working in has staying power

It's what the folding tactical crowd is drawn to in a fixed blade

You have absorbed information and utilized it in your work ...... I'm proud of ya buddy :)

We know what style of knife is not popular these days and that's no ones fault....it's just the changing of the time

No one cares more about the knife community than STeven

He worries and truly cares where things are going

I too care and try in my way to show it but today's makers need to worry about what is in front of them and what they need to do to feed their families

It is fine for collectors to worry about the market on a whole but for an individual young maker they must concentrate on their own business goals and just hope everyone else is doing the same

I said publicly years ago that people's tastes only mature to a certain degree and that some knife genres and styles were fading off

I also expressed that makers should reach out to the newer buying market and cultivate their future business and maybe at times do work that is appealing to the upcoming market

Some listen ...... some keep making guild style and cowboy stuff :)

I wish the whole knife world the best ....... I truly do
 
JParanee said:
Bingo

You are the man my brother
Click to expand...

Thanks Joe, much appreciated.:)

I am simply echoing what you wrote >>here<< in post 4. You already called it long ago.

We are getting to the point in our lives were we have seen huge changes in the world. Things that we remember as being the norm have shifted radically. There is no reason to think that this will not continue to happen.

I have seen it with cars, guns, knives and various parts of the art market. The younger generations are just not interested in the same stuff we were. In predicting the knife market of the future we should all be mindful of that.
 
At the ICCE show there were more kitchen knives than last year. More than one was pretty looking, but the maker didn't really understand functional design. A significant number could have made better designs just by paying attention to classic manufacturer's designs. More than one maker touted how much his wife liked his kitchen knives, but no maker named any restuarant's chef that used his knives or that he worked out his design with. There's a lot of room in that market for better design and better marketing.
 
Steven65 said:
We have no idea of what is being sold privately through Instagram, Facebook and other. We can guess but it is probably far bigger than we can ever imagine.
Makers want sales. They have bills and mortgages to pay and they must use the selling method which the buyers today demand. That is no longer shows, print media and forums. It is direct access smartphone based social media.

I think that it is also important to remember that the demographic of the buyer is changing. The under 30’s don’t care about the “classic master makers” They have not grown up with them and their names mean nothing to them. They buy instantly using social media and expect instant gratification which follows the model of all internet sales.
Don’t tell a younger buyer he needs to wait 18 months for his new all singing and dancing tacticool. He wants it shipped by the end of the week and that is the expectation which the maker must meet. Amazon has set this expectation, and the youngsters today demand it.
Click to expand...

What kind of knife or maybe a more relevant question is how much do you think these types of sales generate dollar wise?

I ask because I am just as guilty of impulse buying some random gadget from MassDrop, a $60 light or something. I have an Amazon (account created in 2006) Prime account at Amazon.com, but live in Canada, that is how much I spend there. Amazon.ca via subscription delivers all my dry goods to my house, like tissue paper, paper towels, dishwasher detergent, diapers, baby wipes, deodorant, tooth brush heads etc. I grocery shop online, and have it delivered to my house so my wife doesn't have to take the toddler to the grocery store for anything but fresh meat and veggies from a local farmers market. An eBay account since 2004, 70 purchases there in the last 12 months. Paypal account was registered in 2002. That is 10-14 years for me. Back then they said the brick & mortar stores would be gone before long. Yet, they remain. They adapted. I think the forums will do the same. Apps like Tapatalk convert the forum into the social media platform many people prefer.

But I am not, and by the sounds of it no one else knows of people buying $2000+ art knives on IG and the majority of people I know are not on Facebook anymore.

I have 0 trouble believing people are buying cheaper stuff on IG, on average, maybe $500 roughly let's say, but I doubt they are buying higher end stuff, which is what I kinda thought this thread was actually about. The higher end pieces, not the pay a maker $700 today and can't sell it for $550 on the exchange tomorrow that is so prevalent these days, even right here on this forum.

I see this too. Years ago I would rarely sell even a CRK at a loss, maybe $20. The last CRK I sold, as I was getting out of them was a $180 loss. At the same time I bought a makers knives on the secondary market at prices above what the maker asked for them originally.

I guess I am trying to discriminate between something whipped up on a grinder, in the latest trendy cool style, and something finely crafted.
 
JustinFournier said:
.....But I am not, and by the sounds of it no one else knows of people buying $2000+ art knives on IG and the majority of people I know are not on Facebook anymore.....
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It happens quite a bit. And every maker I know is on Facebook and most are on IG. I see sales big and small happen everyday.
 
BenR.T. said:
It happens quite a bit. And every maker I know is on Facebook and most are on IG. I see sales big and small happen everyday.
Click to expand...

Well that is good to hear. Seems odd people would not be buying from websites then. I used my wife's old Facebook to try and find info, well pics on Matthew Gregory's past knives, to get a better idea what he has done before I ordered from him and couldn't find him there. Just my luck. Maybe I can't work Facebook right so more is going on there than I can see.
 
JustinFournier said:
Well that is good to hear. Seems odd people would not be buying from websites then. I used my wife's old Facebook to try and find info, well pics on Matthew Gregory's past knives, to get a better idea what he has done before I ordered from him and couldn't find him there. Just my luck. Maybe I can't work Facebook right so more is going on there than I can see.
Click to expand...


Matts a dinosaur. He's not on Facebook, but he is on IG.


He's my hero. Buy a knife from him, you won't regret it.
 
BenR.T. said:
Matts a dinosaur. He's not on Facebook, but he is on IG.


He's my hero. Buy a knife from him, you won't regret it.
Click to expand...

Well it makes me feel better that I didn't miss him there. As it turns out, I bought one from him, and have another on the way when the stars allign. For a dinosaur, he turns out a mean knife. I wonder if he has those tiny little arms....

If I had a dime for every thread I derailed I would.. never mind. Sorry.
 
for now its faster to post a pic of my work on FB then it is to get a shot for the website. i really need to fix that so i can get more images out for people to see
as for the kinds of knives i am moving its all tools even if they are fancy (or not) kitchen knives and straight razors that are well made are a solid market. its also one that can be tricky to get into at first as the learnig curve from hunters and bowies is steep
 
BenR.T. said:
Matts a dinosaur. He's not on Facebook, but he is on IG.
Click to expand...

JustinFournier said:
For a dinosaur, he turns out a mean knife. I wonder if he has those tiny little arms....
Click to expand...


Hey!!! I am not a dinosaur!!! I am, in point of fact, quite tech savvy. I'm just totally antisocial. The only reason I could possibly see for using Facebook would be so I could unfriend people. ;)

Glad that lil' knife is working out for you, Justin. And it's not that my arms are that short, it's that they're really long but spindly. Kind of like pipe cleaners with a few lumps of chewed bubble gum stuck to them. :D

I spent a long time in a retail industry that closely mirrors some of the aspects of the custom knife world. The old models for business in that realm are almost all but dead, which is not to say that the market is. It merely evolved, and those that clung to the old ways went the way of the Smilodon and Mammuthus Primigenius. They held court for quite a while, but the change in the weather was more than they could handle...
 
Is this thread about knifemakers being able to sell knives, and where?

Or is it about the worth and value of fine cutlery, as a whole, and how it stands now and into the future as a potent thing to invest in or collect?
 
Mecha said:
Is this thread about knifemakers being able to sell knives, and where?

Or is it about the worth and value of fine cutlery, as a whole, and how it stands now and into the future as a potent thing to invest in or collect?
Click to expand...

I think it's actually all of the above, and more. Really can't focus on just one aspect of the topic without discussing all the rest. Natural path for the thread to follow, I'd say.
 
any maker chasing the trend is never goingto make it. if you are going to ride the wave you have to get in front of the curve
 
I'm totally content with having 2-4 ongoing projects in the 200-400 range. I refuse to get big. I'm afraid I will lose some humility and become like RADknives.
 
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