Steel testing underway...

stevomiller said:
Nice job and interesting. I have never HT 440c myself, but the blades I made from it almost 30 years ago included subzero from the heat treaters. I was suprised you subzero'd most other steels, but not this one?
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Yep. Me too and about that time frame. I used Paul Bos. Aaron, if you'll do some research, I believe you'll find LN much superior to dry ice. If you are trying to do cryo on 01, I don't remember if you do or not, you are wasting time and effort. You will not get enough return to make it worth while.
 
LRB said:
Yep. Me too and about that time frame. I used Paul Bos. Aaron, if you'll do some research, I believe you'll find LN much superior to dry ice. If you are trying to do cryo on 01, I don't remember if you do or not, you are wasting time and effort. You will not get enough return to make it worth while.
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Thanks LRB, your comment made me look around and learn a bit more about the sub-zero/cryo processs. One outcome is that I have been incorrectly referring to dry ice as a 'cryo' quench, when it should be called a 'sub-zero' quench.

As I understand it from my reading LN is not 'much superior' but 'probably somewhat superior', this is according to this thread: http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/832811-Dry-Ice-Sub-Zero-Quench

The main benefit seems to be the formation of a different type of carbide, as opposed to simply transforming retained austenite.

I'll definitely be interested to try Liquid Nitrogen in the future, but the cost is somewhat prohibitive for the moment. If I'm heat-treating blades more often in the future then it will likely become more feasible.
 
LRB said:
Yep. Me too and about that time frame. I used Paul Bos. Aaron, if you'll do some research, I believe you'll find LN much superior to dry ice. If you are trying to do cryo on 01, I don't remember if you do or not, you are wasting time and effort. You will not get enough return to make it worth while.
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I meant to say too that I did the sub-zero quench on the O1 simply because the datasheet mentioned it could aid stability, and I was all setup to do the other blades anyway. If I was only working with the O1 I likely would not have bothered.
 
Thanks for sharing all of the time and expense you took in your tests.
One question I have, where did you get your steel? I have heard that sometimes someone buys steel that is marked D2, but is really 440C, etc.
One suggestion I have is, send some test blades to a professional heat treater like Paul Bos heat treating, then do your tests on those blades.
I am not trying to be critical of your heat treating ability, but in testing it is good to try different things and see if they confirm your previous test results.
Thanks again for all the effort you have put into your testing and willingness to share the results.
 
Tom Lewis said:
Thanks for sharing all of the time and expense you took in your tests.
One question I have, where did you get your steel? I have heard that sometimes someone buys steel that is marked D2, but is really 440C, etc.
One suggestion I have is, send some test blades to a professional heat treater like Paul Bos heat treating, then do your tests on those blades.
I am not trying to be critical of your heat treating ability, but in testing it is good to try different things and see if they confirm your previous test results.
Thanks again for all the effort you have put into your testing and willingness to share the results.
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All reasonable questions and suggestions!

I got most of the steel from Jantz Supply, which I understand is supposed to be reputable. The CPM154 and CPM3V certainly had labels with the Crucible branding on them.

The idea of sending the blades out is a good one. I may well do that next time as it would allow others more confidence in the results, instead of having to trust my heat treat. I will also admit that I'm relatively new to the whole heat-treating game, so there's definitely room for mistakes!

Plenty more testing to come over the next 2 weeks or so!
 
You didn't by chance record this testing did you? I have watched your Youtube vids and they are very good and informative. I realize the video would be very long, but you could cut out the lengthy parts and just ignore the people that claim you "cheated" off camera because their steel didn't win. Just a though, glad to see you on Bladeforums!
 
Wow, kudos on all the effort here. I was expecting the A2 to perform very well, I have been looking for some to try making some blades, I am going to try Jantz, someone beat me to the punch in asking already.

If you are going to throw away the broken blades, I will pay shipping for that A2 one, I can still make a serviceable tool form it I think! ;)
 
lanceh17 said:
You didn't by chance record this testing did you? I have watched your Youtube vids and they are very good and informative. I realize the video would be very long, but you could cut out the lengthy parts and just ignore the people that claim you "cheated" off camera because their steel didn't win. Just a though, glad to see you on Bladeforums!
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Have you been creeping round my shop when I'm not looking? :D Thank for the kind words, I'm glad you liked the videos!

I did actually record all the testing. I have all the footage on my camera still. I haven't edited it yet as I wanted to come to a decisive over-all conclusion first. I've also been contemplating whether the video really adds any more info, or whether it's just a waste. I'm certainly open to input on this!
 
Liam Ryan said:
Wow, kudos on all the effort here. I was expecting the A2 to perform very well, I have been looking for some to try making some blades, I am going to try Jantz, someone beat me to the punch in asking already.

If you are going to throw away the broken blades, I will pay shipping for that A2 one, I can still make a serviceable tool form it I think! ;)
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Thanks mate! I'm going to keep all the broken blades... Going forward I'm going to number them individually (future test blades will be #7, and up) so that I can end up with a 'catalogue' of test blades all heat-treated in different fashions. I plan on putting up a webpage on my site at some point that lists all the blades and their corresponding heat-treats. Hopefully this will end up being a valuable resource for myself and possibly others.. We'll see.
 
The two reasons I mentioned the video ideas is because (1) The testing is not as easy to follow in this forum due to the posts and comments between... think the final is on page 3?, so I had to read a lot more than necessary to get all of the results and (2) Your videos are pretty well done and by that I mean they are thorough yet concise and to the point.... not to mention you don't ramble on or get off topic like some other youtubers.

Anyhow if it was that much work I wouldn't blame you for passing on the idea. Thanks for the information you provide in your videos.

On a side note: You have inspired me to make a knife completely with hand tools (hacksaw, files, sanding block) just to say that I did. I am taking my time but it is going much easier/smoother than I thought it would.
 
lanceh17 said:
The two reasons I mentioned the video ideas is because (1) The testing is not as easy to follow in this forum due to the posts and comments between... think the final is on page 3?, so I had to read a lot more than necessary to get all of the results and (2) Your videos are pretty well done and by that I mean they are thorough yet concise and to the point.... not to mention you don't ramble on or get off topic like some other youtubers.

Anyhow if it was that much work I wouldn't blame you for passing on the idea. Thanks for the information you provide in your videos.

On a side note: You have inspired me to make a knife completely with hand tools (hacksaw, files, sanding block) just to say that I did. I am taking my time but it is going much easier/smoother than I thought it would.
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I'll likely still make the video, I'm starting a second round of testing though so it'll be done after that most likely.

I've really enjoyed the knives I've made with hand tools! I actually made myself a quite nice convex ground kitchen knife just filing freehand, turns out to not be hard at all! The part that sucks is the hours of sanding, but apart from that it's quite pleasant and reasonably fast!
 
Good testing Aaron, I am very surprised where your 440c tested. You say you expected it to be the loser but in my years of working/testing with it and other steels your results do not fit my experiences. But very cool test none the less
 
Brett Mathews said:
Good testing Aaron, I am very surprised where your 440c tested. You say you expected it to be the loser but in my years of working/testing with it and other steels your results do not fit my experiences. But very cool test none the less
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Thanks Brett! Everyone should definitely take my testing with a grain of salt. For most of the steels it was my first time heat-treating that particular steel, and the heat-treats I used were the ones recommended by the manufacturers.

I'm working on developing a better heat-treat for the A2. Once I have that ironed out I will actually be doing another round of testing with A2 (multiple blades), CPM154 and O1. I will include another test blade of 440C to round things out, I may even do another CPM3V just for the hell of it too... It doesn't take that much extra time per blade to be honest.

I'll likely plate quench the 440C, CPM3V and CPM154 this time around, after heat-treating in foil to minimize any suspicions of decarb. I'll also be sticking to the lower range of austenitizing temperatures to minimize issues with retained austenite. I will be interested to see if the second batch mirrors the results of the first!
 
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Timbear said:
How bout throwing in a 1084 blade too :) ?
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Funnily enough getting spring steel where I am seems to be almost impossible... I have some 5160, but it's 1/4" thick.

To get 1084 I would have to order it from the US, and I don't want to hold up the testing. Apart from that I have no objections! I'm certainly interested in including it next time!
 
Thanks again for sharing your testing results. Have you gotten your samples Rockwell tested yet? I am looking forward to seeing what each sample's RC was.
 
This has been very interesting to me because I am doing up a batch of knives in A2. One of A2's benefits is its cost compared to a lot of the other tool steels. It is nice to see some data that shiws that it is every bit as good (and in some ways better) compared to the pricier metals.
 
Tom Lewis said:
Thanks again for sharing your testing results. Have you gotten your samples Rockwell tested yet? I am looking forward to seeing what each sample's RC was.
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Not yet, I was originally going to take them in today... but seeing as I'm doing another run of tests I figured I'd wait and take all the blades in at once.
 
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