Still no knife from Dale Chudzinski

That's a heckova stand up thing to do for a friend.
It seems like it is so easy to jump on the bandwagon and trash someone from afar.
But to put your own reputation, not to mention part of your treasured knife collection, on the line...that speaks volumes.
Knifetester, you are one of the good guys.
 
Thanks Ebb, I am just hoping no one comes calling on my Lee Reeves hatchet or my Paul Reynolds talonite and snakewood barlow!!!
 
first, let me say that i have no dog in this fight and i'm glad someone-anyone-is getting their knife. :) however, i am curious about something. aarya has waited 'only' 5 months for his knife and we just found out it is on it's way. others have waited over two years and they still don't have a knife or a refund. shouldn't dale deliver knives in the order they were paid for? to do otherwise hardly seems fair to me, as it is my understanding that dale makes his knives one at a time and not in batches. is my 'fifo' line of thinking unsound? :confused:
 
aarya has waited 'only' 5 months for his knife and we just found out it is on it's way. others have waited over two years and they still don't have a knife or a refund. shouldn't dale deliver knives in the order they were paid for? to do otherwise hardly seems fair to me, as it is my understanding that dale makes his knives one at a time and not in batches. is my 'fifo' line of thinking unsound? :confused:


I think that Bobert hasn't gotten his knives because he is being punished for his comments on this thread. Even though Dale says he has never seen this thread, he seems to know what Bobert has posted here.
 
Wow,
Knifetester is quite a friend.

I too don't have a dog in this fight, but I hope Dale is worthy of such a friend ...

Heck, I hope I'd be worthy of such a friend.
 
I think that Bobert hasn't gotten his knives because he is being punished for his comments on this thread. Even though Dale says he has never seen this thread, he seems to know what Bobert has posted here.

well, if i really wanted a knife BAD, and money wasn't an issue, well...

"hi, i need a knife by the end of the month, i can pay a small bonus if you can do a rush? oh, you have a couple ready NOW? super, i'll take two... thanx"

i wasn't even aware he was taking orders honestly. i tried calling for a week about 6-9 months ago. nothing. sent email too. nothing. guess my money wasn't good enough ;) couldn't be punishment, as i've had nothing bad to say, and i don't think he could possibly guess my DBA email or phone. heh.

perhaps he has terrible mail service, poor bookkeeping practices, and other more important work that trumps someone willing to be too patient. who knows? he knows and should register here, and give his side.

it also sounds like he thinks a bit of negative commentary or demanding some service/feedback is being "rude". i'm assuming the people did this were calm and polite, yes? threatening the guy might be taken badly.

still, if people are getting knives in 3-5 months, and others are waiting a year or two, that's bad. no question, and should be addressed.

and remember, at least people in the states, small claims court is your friend and cheap to free afaik if it comes to that. hopefully, he comes through for you.

good luck all,

bladite
 
I think that Bobert hasn't gotten his knives because he is being punished for his comments on this thread. Even though Dale says he has never seen this thread, he seems to know what Bobert has posted here.

I also have no dog in this fight, other than this type of behavior smears other custom makers.

In my opinion (take it for what it is worth to you), Dale has no room to be mad or deny anybody either the product paid for, or a complete refund. If he has evidence someone has lied in this thread, have it posted. If after providing the product paid for, or a refund, he doesn't like someone on a personal level, then it is up to him to decide if to deal with them again. However, as long as he has taken money and provided nothing in return, especially, when providing to others who ordered later, he is in the wrong. There is no wiggle room here.

I have seen his name come up elsewhere as not delivering also. This is really a shame, because from what I have seen, his knives are great, and he used to have an outstanding reputation. In this business, that is a very hard thing to earn, but it is so easy to loose.

One thing though, this board does show an up and coming knifemaker what to do to ensure customers are happy, and what to avoid like the plague. For that, thank you all.

--Carl
 
Keith, et al:
Thanks for the kind words, I hope this can all be resolved.

This is really a shame, because from what I have seen, his knives are great, and he used to have an outstanding reputation. In this business, that is a very hard thing to earn, but it is so easy to loose.

That is for sure. Respect and trust are things that once lost may never be reclaimed.

I think that Bobert hasn't gotten his knives because he is being punished for his comments on this thread. Even though Dale says he has never seen this thread, he seems to know what Bobert has posted here

That is exactly what is happening, though it is not limited to this thread, but rather to the various emails from what I gather.

There are two sides to every story, and having heard them both I will not say that Dale is right for not delivering when promised, but it does tend to temper some of the criticism.

As Dale explained it, he physically can not finish Bobert's knifes when he is upset with him. For Dale, making a knife is a very intimate process, he does not use big belt sanders and whip the off the line and outsource his heattreatment in batches. He hand forges them, one by one, in a very small charcoal forge. Sometimes he makes the charcoal himself from hardwoods. On occasion, one of his children will man the bellows, other than that it is just him. Hamer, heat, steel, muscle and sweat is how his baldes get made. It is a very personally involved process for Dale, not a machinist production line. On some of his knives, at the customers request, he will forgo epoxy, and instead use adhesives that he makes himself manner, and use deerhide for sheaths from deer he hunted, skinned and tanned with his own hands. The stag for the handle is often from animals he has harvested himself. Many of the woods used, are from trees he has felled, sectioned out, and allowed to season for years. I have talked with him as he obsessed about finding the perfect peice of wood for a special customers knife, talking about trips into the Adirondac mountains in search of burl woods.

He tests every single piece of steel that leaves his shop, every knife gets used to hack on seasoned elm, scoring bone, some are used to make their own sheath.

When you read of his knives, you will hear of people using the words soul, warmth, character. These are the words that describe Dale's knives not just because the finished product, but largely because of the process that Dale uses in making them. When you buy a knife from Dale, you are buying something special.

The vast majority of Dale's customers are not knife nuts like us, they are historical re-enactors. For these people, he is one of the few people in the Country that can offer museum level authenticity, along with people like Daniel Winkler and Karen Shook. Dale is an artisan, not a machinist.

So, given Dale's very personal involvement, and his obsession with making every knife the right knife for that particular customer, I do understand where he is coming from when he says he just can't bring himself to do the finish work on Bobert's knives.

Dale told me he offered Bobert a full refund, and Bobert responded that he is not making an interest free loan and demanded his knives. Dale then offered to pay him interest. Bobert then responded quite rudely in Dale's perception (whether justified or not). I think it is to Dale's credit that he did not simply cancel the order and send back the money.

I don't think Bobert will ever get his knives as long as their is hostility between the two of them. I think they either need to resolve their conflict, so Dale can finish his work, or Bobert should take me up on my offer and trade or try and buy out his position on the knives.

Personally, I will wait another two years, because I know that what I will be getting will be worth the wait.

Again, this is a real shame, becuase I am sure the people involved are all fine folks. I don't agree with everything Dale has done, and quite frankly I don't think Dale agrees with everything he has done. But I do know that if people will stop their attacks against him, justified or not, and let the spirit of cooperation take over, that things will work out for everyone in the end.

To that end, my offer remains open. . . .


Peace and love to all. . .
 
I think it is to Dale's credit that he did not simply cancel the order and send back the money.

I think that is what he should have done immediately.

Frankly, I never take money up front. The burden of owing someone something just isn't worth whatever security you get from holding their deposit.
 
That is exactly what is happening, though it is not limited to this thread, but rather to the various emails from what I gather.

There are two sides to every story, and having heard them both I will not say that Dale is right for not delivering when promised, but it does tend to temper some of the criticism.

This one statement stood out for me. If what you said is true, Dale's reputation just dropped in my mind (your are not Dale, so I have to take what you say with a grain of salt, but you are acting in a manner that indicates you have good info, so I will take this unless Dale himself counters it).

This is because Dale took payment upfront. Did not deliver when promised, and from what I have read from Bobert, was given time to deliver when problems arose. Bobert did not get upset until Dale was delivering knives oredered way after his were paid for. In essence, taking advantage of him.

In this case, Dale needs to get over it. This is an issue, not with Bobert and him getting, IMHO upset with justification, but with Dale and his inabiltity to deliver what he took money for. Is this because of his mental state, because he used the materials paid for by Bobert and now can't make the knife, or some other reason? I don't know, but it is wrong.

bobert said:
On may 3rd I sent him this:

"Sorry to say, I am fed up with you.

I want my money back.

If you have an ounce of intregrity left in you, you will post a public apology on BF. It's the least you could do.

You said you'd make it right, for once, honor your word and do it, post an apology stating that my story is accurate and true.

Oh yeah, and refund my money".


He ignored me until he sent me this on August 25th, after I told him I was going to persue this legally:

"I will refund your money. Send me your address.

Dale"


The same day, August 25th, after he got my address, he sent me this:

"Trial by internet?? I told you, you would get your knives,they are now done. I will get them in the mail soon".


That was it, no mention of the refund, and he didn't send me any knives either.

This is the other part that gets me. Why when requesting a refund it wasn't promptly sent. Why when the knives are done, they are not know in Bobert's hands. As has been said this is a stalling factor, and your indication of the problem makes it worse.

For Dale, making a knife is a very intimate process, he does not use big belt sanders and whip the off the line and outsource his heattreatment in batches. He hand forges them, one by one, in a very small charcoal forge. Sometimes he makes the charcoal himself from hardwoods. On occasion, one of his children will man the bellows, other than that it is just him. Hamer, heat, steel, muscle and sweat is how his baldes get made. It is a very personally involved process for Dale, not a machinist production line. On some of his knives, at the customers request, he will forgo epoxy, and instead use adhesives that he makes himself manner, and use deerhide for sheaths from deer he hunted, skinned and tanned with his own hands. The stag for the handle is often from animals he has harvested himself. Many of the woods used, are from trees he has felled, sectioned out, and allowed to season for years.

This is not some unusual or mythical thing either, and has no bearing on his obligations. I too make knives in a small charcoal forge. I too have had my kids spend time with me at the forge, both showing them how to forge, and they sometimes like to crank my blower. I haven't yet started selling, I am still trying to figure out the process and how I want to handle things. I will probably never take orders, but rather lists of those interested, those who would like a knife would be on a list, with a type they would like. When a knife was for sale, I would contact those that expressed interest before putting it out for general sale. The biggest thing I have learned, I would never have someones money in my hand before a knife that would be ready for them. I do this for mental health, not money.

To finish this off, there is no way that Dale is in the right here. Customers will get upset, sometimes justifiable, sometimes not, but once you have taken their money, you can not be in the right to withhold both the product and the money, and I think he knows that.

--Carl
 
This is a wonderful use of Internet community. I can well understand the tempermental and uncertain life of an artisan, which is why I paid Dale in full up front, without being asked. Finally, a good friend has stepped forward to explain things, which gives me some comfort, even though I have not heard from Dale himself. Bobert does seem a little hot tempered for this field, even though he is entirely in the right from a legal standpoint.
With any luck (and a little cooperation and effort on his part) Dale's reputation as both a craftsman and a businessman will be rehabilitated here. I hope so.
 
Emmacat:
Thank you for your understanding. There is actually a lot more behind the scenes, but out of respect for Dale and his family's privacy I will not go into them at all. Needless to say, the reason he fell behind in his knifemaking is something we would all pray not befall our family.

Carl:
You are right, it is a better practice to not take money up front. I wish you the best of luck in your knifemaking career. Please let me know when you have some knives available, I would like to check them out.

Everyone, I will print out a copy of the latest posts, and either read them, or mail them, to Dale.
 
I find it odd that Dale says he offered Bobert a refund, Bobert demanded a refund, and Bobert doesn't have that refund. It seems that both parties want the same thing, and that Dale isn't stepping up to the plate here.
 
knifetester, I admire your loyalty to your friend Dale, but please do not paint a picture of some mythical labor of love, full of mystery and ancient alchemy that sets Dale apart from other makers.
He is wrong to think he is justified not delivering a knife to a customer who paid up front.
Being insulting and refusing to answer the customer's e-mail just compounds the problem.
Trying to paint Bobert as the one who is being unreasonable is laughable.

Dale sent me an aggressive. rude, insulting and totally uncalled for e-mail (that I can reproduce if required), after my first post in this thread.
I will also mention that he was banned from Knifeforums because of his abusive e-mails to the owner of the site.
Why does Dale not confront this issue and post here?
I was a friend to both the people involved and if it comes to down to whom I believe, it is a no-brainer.
Bobert is a fine, honest man of his word and I believe his version of what has happened without reservation.
Dirk
 
I find it odd that Dale says he offered Bobert a refund, Bobert demanded a refund, and Bobert doesn't have that refund. It seems that both parties want the same thing, and that Dale isn't stepping up to the plate here.

Dale indicated that he was wiling to give Bobert a refund, and that it was Bobert who refused and indicated that he was not giving out interest free loans. The above emails from Bobert paint a different story.

I am not saying Dale was right and and Bobert was wrong, and I don't think anyone else here is either. What I am saying is that there is more to the picture than has been painted here.

Yeah, it sucks that Dale has had Bobert's money. Tell me how much it is, and I will pay it back to Bobert myself, and take his position on the knives. No worries about a trade. Add interest at whatever rate you feel is reasonable, make it prime, statutory judgement rate, t-bill, whatever. Hell, I will send him a free knife too.

If I had the money, I would make the same offer to all Dale's customers with delayed orders.

Oupa,
Like I wrote earlier, there are two sides to every story. I am sure Dale and Jim Nowka have had there differences, but so have other men whom I respect.

I am sure Bobert is honorable, I would presume no less. All I am saying is that there is more to the story than is being written here.

The week is about to start, and I will not be able to check in here much, but will try to from time to time.

Bobert, please let me know how much Dale owes you, how much for interest, and what kind of knives you like and I will make you whole.

Anyone else that wants to trade knives for their knife from Dale they are waiting on, please let me know as well.
 
Knifetester,

I agree, to take money up front is usually a slippery slope. It is known that Dale had some problems, and Bobert was actually very patient during this, from what he has posted, it was only after this was over, and knives were being delivered to those who ordered and paid after him, did problems arise.

This is also not the only forum I have seen people wondering about knives from Dale, since contact ended with them.

I do have to say, you are a great friend to Dale, we all should be so lucky in life to have someone like you around us. If you would like to see some of what I do, in the Bladesmith Question and Answers forum I have a post titled "Some new work". I am not up to Dale's capability with a hammer, but I am learning, and each mistake moves me closer to my potential. As it happens, two of the ones pictured are Nessmuks, which I really enjoy making.

--Carl
 
Dale indicated that he was wiling to give Bobert a refund, and that it was Bobert who refused and indicated that he was not giving out interest free loans. The above emails from Bobert paint a different story.



I said that in a post, not to him, and that was quite a while ago. There is not more to the story that has been written here. The picture that was painted is accurate. Ask Dale to produce these horrible emails. As for him not being able to work on the knives because he has bad feelings towards me, that is hogwash, he recently told me that the knives were finished.




Yeah, it sucks that Dale has had Bobert's money. Tell me how much it is, and I will pay it back to Bobert myself, and take his position on the knives. No worries about a trade. Add interest at whatever rate you feel is reasonable, make it prime, statutory judgement rate, t-bill, whatever. Hell, I will send him a free knife too.


Bobert, please let me know how much Dale owes you, how much for interest, and what kind of knives you like and I will make you whole.




I will happily take you up on your most generous offer. I paid Dale a total of $305. It wouldn't seem right asking you for interest, it would from Dale, but not from you. As for the free knife offer. I like many different kinds of knives, but I could really use a Nessmuk! Jusy kidding. Thanks. Let me know what to do.
 
Oupa:
Indeed I do. It was my pleasure to meet you a few months ago when you were in the States.

Bobert,
If you will kindly list your paypal ID, I will dispatch payment forthwith, non-CC of course. Once you get the paypal email, pleae reply and send me your shipping info, and I will send you a knife for your troubles.

After receiving payment, could you then please email or call Dale and instruct him to send the knives to me.

BTW, what kind of knives am I getting?

Hope this will put things to rest for you, if there is anything else I can do, to help, let me know. . .
 
Back
Top