Strider PT. 30 disappointing minutes.

[3Guardsmen]

And John, I hope I'm not contradicting myself too much, but I really don't have a big beef with Cold Steel or Lynn Thompson. He served, he's got a hopefully successful business, he's had me for a customer.

Lynn served eh? Where and when was that, Tirod3, and in which branch?

 

[Lycosa]

LT was on KP Duty.

 

[Spark]

I served, and I'm not in the business of outing anyone.

I served, and I was never lied to by Mick or Duane.

Yes, if I recall correctly you were a training officer of a reserve battalion for 6 years. The honor code of "I will not lie, cheat or steal... or tolerate those who do." seems pretty self explanatory... did you tolerate this sort of behavior out of trainees?

I served, and I don't go around pointing out the character flaws of others because they don't meet my standards. There seem to be quite a few self appointed Public Ethics Judges who wrap their sense of right and wrong around themselves as holy ornament to scourge the lesser beings.

What you posted here: http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6579995&postcount=119
well that directly contradicts what you just said. Terms like "mall princess" "clueless icommando" and such pretty much say you've appointed yourself a judge of right and wrong; and that you are saying people have character flaws because of their beliefs.

Thanks, guys, you prove my point. Anybody who disagress is trashed and attacked.

Of course I respond in those threads. Did then, will now, just like many others. And I will keep pointing out that lots of members here are well aware of the hate and discontent against Strider by people who had no part in the proceedings. And I will keep pointing out that those same people won't let go, bringing up events from years ago so they can appear as the Righteous Givers of Truth to an unwashed world. And I will keep pointing out they made no effort then, and no effort now to go straight to the source and talk about it face to face. It's all heresay to them, based on others statements.

This is getting surreal. So now you are saying that Mick Strider didn't claim that he and his partner were combat veterans? That he wasn't to be sentenced to Somalia?

Nobody in this thread hired the lawyers, attended the trials, or was the recipient of any "awards" for their grievous suffering. You can claim the right to broadcast truth, but the truth is none of you were involved to begin with until you stuck your nose in after the fact.

You have no standing to bring a complaint to bear - unless you admit you bought a Strider convinced that the measurable value of military experience could provide a tool with more value because of it.

No, we just read the posts, read the magazine articles, were BSed consistently for years, and were misguided, lied to, misled, and otherwise conned by a group who decided the path to success was better made from fiction than reality. I have standing to make a complaint because I personally was conned, threatened, lied to, and all the rest by the parties in question. My forums were used as a vehicle by these people to spread their lies. My customers were affected by it.

Good grief, Sparks, how many times have I posted that military experience doesn't mean squat because the US Military doesn't train, use, or consider a knife as a weapon to begin with? Why not profess that truth and laugh at ALL the makers who ride on their "credentials?"

Using "military experience" has plenty of meaning because those who have done so can be considered reliable sources of information for what is needed when fulfilling those duties. I wouldn't ask a milkman what an OBGYN would need to perform his duties; if a knifemaker touts their "special operations background" as a reason why people should choose their knives, and is later found out to have fabricated that background, that is pretty much fraud. I was nice enough to provide citations of just this sort of behavior back in the day, stop acting like it didn't happen. I've also said repeatedly, if you have information that someone is falsifying their background, by all means make a thread and post it.

And yes , like Tirod3 , I too am not one who likes Cold Steel either. Mainly because :
# 1 : their outright copying other knife makers work without due credit
# 2 : having met LT a few times at SHOT where he treated both myself and a few friends like crap ( this was before I had an opinion either way on their products ).

Serious question , and no offense meant :
If someone supports CS , yet crucifies Strider , doesn't that make them a hypocrite ?

So you are ok with someone knocking off a military history to make themselves be "high speed" but you have a problem with someone making a knife that is superficially similar? I guess the difference is, one is actively lying to you to puff themselves up and trading on the blood of dead heroes to con you out of cash. The other is in the realm of trademarks and intellectual property... but that's a court matter.

I also notice that Cold Steel doesn't rely on claims of the owner's combat or special operations background to sell their products. The products succeed or fail on their own merits (or lack thereof). Why would someone need to lie about a military background if their product is superior? What reason would there be for it?

 

[3Guardsmen]

Always question what an apologist says, especially when that apologist doesn't know how to get his facts straight and furthermore tries to prevent other people from discussing the facts via obfuscation!

 

[John T Wylie Jr]

So you are ok with someone knocking off a military history to make themselves be "high speed" but you have a problem with someone making a knife that is superficially similar? I guess the difference is, one is actively lying to you to puff themselves up and trading on the blood of dead heroes to con you out of cash. The other is in the realm of trademarks and intellectual property... but that's a court matter.

Aren't they both technically court matters ?

But to answer your question : I have never served in the military (in my youth I was more concerned about getting from point a to point b as fast as possible aka street racing ), their past ( whether true or false ) didn't/doesn't matter a bit to me. That is none of my concern , never being in the military , who in the heck would I be to judge ?

I didn't buy their product or befriend them on any pre-notion of any past history. I picked up a knife at gun show , liked it , wanted one , bought one , then 2 , 3 , etc.

If calling them friends makes me guilty or a bad person , so be it , how others see me and what others think has no bearing on how I will live my life or who I will associate with.

If the world were to go to hell in a hand basket tomorrow , I would certainly want those guys standing beside me , not because of any military experience , but because of friendship plain and simple.

My customers were affected by it.

You say CS , is only making knives that are superficially similar , yet you ask those makers who have complaints how they view it.
I am guessing that is not effecting your customers.

My point , is to claim that I have a double standard , would you not agree that you have one as well ?

Since you were in the military , I understand why you feel the way you do. Thank you for the service.

Everyone needs to be accountable for their actions is what I seem to be hearing , the idea that " you reap what you sow ". That goes for every facet of life , whether it be on line , dealing with kids , talking smack on someone , etc. Never hold another to a different standard than you hold yourself.

Are we all without fault ? I know I am not.

 

[Spark]

Aren't they both technically court matters ?

They would be now, thanks to the Stolen Valor Act of 2005. Lying about your military background is now a federal crime. With regards to this though, I'd consider it a "short con" - good luck proving that in court without direct testimony from a cop who witnessed it.

If calling them friends makes me guilty or a bad person , so be it , how others see me and what others think has no bearing on how I will live my life or who I will associate with.

Calling them friends doesn't make you a bad person John, nobody has every said that. Defending indefensible behavior is another matter. Are you doing that?

You say CS , is only making knives that are superficially similar , yet you ask those makers who have complaints how they view it.
I am guessing that is not effecting your customers.

Nobody who buys a Cold Steel is going to think it's the same quality as a Loveless, or even a Strider knife.

My point , is to claim that I have a double standard , would you not agree that you have one as well ?

Not really. I don't condone Cold Steel's behavior, or any other company that does so. The question is where do you draw the line? Locking Liners are ubiquitous throughout the industry, as are frame locks, thumb holes, and other design characteristics that can be directly traced to one maker. If you boycott everything, you have nothing left. The key is to provide an informed choice to the consumer, which is one of the reasons BladeForums.com doesn't edit postings & threads for content (even if it's negative). You'll notice that there are thousands of Strider threads on here where not a peep is mentioned about backgrounds. There are plenty of threads about Cold Steel talking poorly about their products. Please don't tell me I have a double standard when the evidence is pretty clear in that regard.

Everyone needs to be accountable for their actions is what I seem to be hearing , the idea that " you reap what you sow ". That goes for every facet of life , whether it be on line , dealing with kids , talking smack on someone , etc. Never hold another to a different standard than you hold yourself.

Are we all without fault ? I know I am not.

I'm far from perfect. I really do find it humorous though that direct quotes about accountability & integrity from parties are ignored when their behavior shows otherwise.

 

[Bastid]

It all boils down some folks think it is OK to misrepresent yourself in order to promote knives, some folks do not think it is not OK for that deception to go unchecked and some folks do not care about anything but the knife while choices are made accordingly.

I am glad the information is available for people to decide rather than have that information covered up.

To pound on folks who do feel that the person behind the work means something seems to be quite short-sighted when it come to the knife community at large where integrity is the norm, but that has been seen many times over the years on various levels in many situations.

 

[allenC]

I served, and I'm not in the business of outing anyone.

I think that it's EVERY veteran's obligation to "out" anyone who tries to claim honor and valor that they never earned or deserved.
The military is a special brotherhood with a bond that can't be bought with any amount of money.
And when one comes upon a fake, he should make it known to all far and wide.
Letting a fake perpetuate the lies is the same as condoning that behavior.

You become part of the lie.
And you lose your honor in doing so.

I served, and I was never lied to by Mick or Duane.

Did Mick ever tell you he was a Ranger?

If he did, then he lied to you.

Numerous times Strider has claimed that he was a Ranger....but he never finished Ranger School and was never a Ranger.
It is nothing but a lie.

I served, and I don't go around pointing out the character flaws of others because they don't meet my standards.

Lying about one's military service is NOT a "character flaw".
And lying about one's military service in order to sell knives is despicable at best.

Posters who drag up the Strider background do so to wrap themselves in psuedo authority for their own aggrandizement,...

This is 100% BS!
By calling a fake a fake, I don't gain any "aggrandizement" or any "pseudo authority".
All I'm doing is letting my fellow forum members know the truth before they support the fake with their hard earned money.

There are knife makers with honor who make great knives....better to support those guys rather than a phoney and a liar like Strider.

You have no standing to bring a complaint to bear - unless you admit you bought a Strider convinced that the measurable value of military experience could provide a tool with more value because of it.

More BS!
Every citizen of this nation, civilian or military, has every right to bring complaint to bear against anyone who lies about their military service.
Such liars are a disgrace to the uniform of the fighting men and women of this nation.

I'm amazed that any infantryman, such as you claim to be, would defend a fake like Strider.

 

[John T Wylie Jr]

Calling them friends doesn't make you a bad person John, nobody has every said that. Defending indefensible behavior is another matter. Are you doing that?

I am defending my friendship , and the guys that I know. I have read lots of stuff , yet never in person have I ever heard them talk of anything military related. All of our conversations have been on life , family , knife making and gear. I never asked about their past , because it didn't matter to me.

Nobody who buys a Cold Steel is going to think it's the same quality as a Loveless, or even a Strider knife.

not sure how the quality ways into the equation , a copy of something is a copy , how well it is done is not of importance.

If that is your solid opinion , then by that standard as some here say Mick wasn't 1/2 the MIL guy that they themselves are , that all his past should be ok , because the quality of the person is lower ( in your and others eyes , not in mine ).

I don't condone Cold Steel's behavior, or any other company that does so. The question is where do you draw the line? Locking Liners are ubiquitous throughout the industry, as are frame locks, thumb holes, and other design characteristics that can be directly traced to one maker. If you boycott everything, you have nothing left. The key is to provide an informed choice to the consumer, which is one of the reasons BladeForums.com doesn't edit postings & threads for content (even if it's negative). You'll notice that there are thousands of Strider threads on here where not a peep is mentioned about backgrounds. There are plenty of threads about Cold Steel talking poorly about their products. Please don't tell me I have a double standard when the evidence is pretty clear in that regard.

The double standard I was referring to is , you said you don't condone CS's behavior , yet at 1SKS you still sell their product. So how is that different in you insinuating that someone should not support Strider due to their behavior. That is a double standard. Circumstances are different , principle still the same.

As far as letting threads run their course , good or bad , I am glad that it is allowed to happen here , I will give you kudos for that. I have no beef what so ever with the way you run your forum at all. My posts aren't to challenge you as a person , just your words and your views.

 

[killyourself038]

They are knives.

People have their own opinions.

From reading all the backup you guys provided, it's pretty obvious that both men served in the military. My best friend is in the Marines, he's issued one of their knives. He doesn't care about the makers, his only concern is if he loses the knife, he gets in trouble.

I don't care about them, their military experience, or your personal problems with them. I care about the knives and their performance. I won't pay full price for a Strider, but I did pay way over price for a special one. I get them second hand, it's way better, and I still haven't gotten any duds.

I own a bunch of their knives. I have not had any issues, nor have I had problems with my knives other than blade wiggle that a spanner wrench took care of. I have not dealt with their customer service because;

1. I can sharpen my own knives
2. I can tighten the pivot myself

I have dealt with Josh at a couple of knife shows, and he seems like a very nice guy.

Many people have a problem with the makers claiming they were more than they were in the military, well, all the paperwork doesn't mean a damn thing to me, sorry (including the signed settlement). What I do know is that in two years, my friend made E-5, and recently has made sniper,( his first test he failed cause he ran into a pole), but if he made a knife, I wouldn't christen it the greatest knife ever made until I used it for what it was... I also know that growing up with him, it's not a stretch for him to be busted down to E-1 for doing something incredibly stupid.

Wherever the designers experience came from, it's pretty clear he knew what he was doing when he designed these knives, simple as that, it's about the knives, let the personal BS go, these forums will be much better for it IMO.

 

[3Guardsmen]

Wherever the designers experience came from, it's pretty clear he knew what he was doing when he designed these knives, simple as that, it's about the knives, let the personal BS go, these forums will be much better for it IMO.

Always question what an apologist says, especially when that apologist doesn't know how to get his facts straight and furthermore tries to prevent other people from discussing the facts via obfuscation!

Regards,
3G

 

[flipe8]

Did the OP ever get an answer he was satisified with?

 

[Bastid]

Wherever the designers experience came from, it's pretty clear he knew what he was doing when he designed these knives, simple as that, it's about the knives, let the personal BS go, these forums will be much better for it IMO.

Yes the forums would be better for those who only care about the knives and the forums would be worse for those who care about the person behind the knives.

That is the point. Not hiding information which is something some people want.

The person behind the knives means a lot to a lot of people, your stance is to smother that information and that is not going to happen here.

 

[Gator97]

I served, and I was never lied to by Mick or Duane.

When Mick claimed military service you were lied to, unless you already knew that wasn't the case. it's another thing whether or not you feel "lied to", but logic and facts are very simple, he claimed to be someone he was not, claimed to have served when he never did. That is a lie. What you call that and how do you feel about that it's your personal matter, but that doesnt' mean others have to feel or think the same way.

I served, and I don't go around pointing out the character flaws of others because they don't meet my standards.

Right. You call them princesses, mall ninjas and whatever else.

Anybody who disagress is trashed and attacked.

It is Strider's and their cultists trademark behavior. Observed here and elsewhere on constant basis. Anyone who criticize Strider or questions them, despite of plenty questionable things, gets attacked and trashed by Strider and fans. Complaint about FF is met with name calling and insults. In this vry thread too. And you guys complain about attacks?

Nobody in this thread hired the lawyers, attended the trials, or was the recipient of any "awards" for their grievous suffering.

You're kidding right? Court record is public I think. So, one doesn't have to be there to read the verdict. It's not that complicated.

unless you admit you bought a Strider convinced that the measurable value of military experience could provide a tool with more value because of it.

So? it was Strider who was promoting at first place that his knives were better because of his alleged military service and experience. That he knew better and blah blah. So, what now, you blame people who bought into those lies?
In short, there is no escape If you expect normal CS from Strider you're foolish. If you bought Strider knife, because you believed his claims about military service and believed him that he knew better because of his service, you're a fool.
Very peculiar company...

at ALL the makers who ride on their "credentials?"

It's very hard to recall any other maker promoting himself and his product by his imaginary military credential as Strider did.

 

[Spark]

not sure how the quality ways into the equation , a copy of something is a copy , how well it is done is not of importance.

Define "copy" - if it's not the same quality, it's not a "copy" but a similar item made by another source of lesser (or greater) materials. AUS8 is not D2 or S30V. Zytel is not Micarta. Thicknesses, grinding, materials, techniques, etc. All of them have some "value added" appeal where some items command a higher price than others. For example, the Becker TacTool has been around for going on 20 years or more, yet this knife shares superficial similarities to it. Is the latter a knock off? For that matter, Ek knives popularized 550 cord wrapping in the 80's, and Dawson knives did it in the 90's, does this mean that their techniques were knocked off? Where do you draw the line?

If that is your solid opinion , then by that standard as some here say Mick wasn't 1/2 the MIL guy that they themselves are , that all his past should be ok , because the quality of the person is lower ( in your and others eyes , not in mine ).

His past is ok? There's nothing wrong with serving as an infantryman. Lying about your past is another matter - just like lying about how knives are made and what they are made of is wrong. Note the difference. Saying you are overseas doing secret squirrel work is one thing, saying you are doing so when you are actually in prison for 5 years for carjacking is something else. Showing your war rig when you are doing special operations work is one thing. Showing a war rig with magazine pouches for rifles & holsters for pistols you can't legally possess makes you a poser. Saying you served and got out with a medical is one thing. Saying you served in combat and "charged gunmen" with knives in the service of the US Government is another. Doing this for years and continuing after you even got sued over it... man, I don't even know what to say. Pathological liar?

The double standard I was referring to is , you said you don't condone CS's behavior , yet at 1SKS you still sell their product. So how is that different in you insinuating that someone should not support Strider due to their behavior. That is a double standard. Circumstances are different , principle still the same.

I don't think you've ever seen me endorsing Lynn Thompson or his practices. I carry his company's products, but then I sold Buck Strider collaborations & SureFire Strider collaborations as well, and I'll probably be selling Zero Tolerance knives at some point. Again, where do you draw the line? I've said over and over again that Strider Knives makes some great designs of high quality materials. That has no bearing on the actions of one or more of their founders; the knives & the personnel are two separate entities. Stop trying to confuse them.

My posts aren't to challenge you as a person , just your words and your views. [/QUOTE]Fortunately my views are pretty consistent - I don't approve of dishonesty & unethical behavior. Apparently you do. Such is life.

 

[killyourself038]

The person behind the knives means a lot to a lot of people, your stance is to smother that information and that is not going to happen here.

That is not my position, make it a sticky, it would be easier for people to read for themselves and not have to search it out like I did because of allusions that people make.

But the OP asked a question about why the knife comes in a plastic bag right?

 

[tjsulli790]

Comparing Mick Strider to Hitler now? Do I even go there?

Where is one court decision comparable to the murder of millions of Jews? Are the two events in the same context? But, to take your point, where did I ever say that lawsuit shouldn't have been brought? And where was your name on it, tjsulli790?

Oh, BTW, what does that anonymous login stand for? I came up with mine because I actually have a titanium rod in my left leg.

.

It's called an analogy, not a direct comparison. You said that because I was not personally affected by what they did I have no right to disagree or ridicule them for their actions. And my analogy takes that logic and shows why it doesn't hold true.

BTW, my so called anonymous login actually contains almost my full name and birth date. No so anonymous is it?

:jerkit:

 

[John T Wylie Jr]

I don't think you've ever seen me endorsing Lynn Thompson or his practices. I carry his company's products

Fortunately my views are pretty consistent - I don't approve of dishonesty & unethical behavior. Apparently you do. Such is life.

I fail to see how that first statement and second statement don't contradict each other , either way you spin it you are supporting. But that's way off topic ( this thread still have a topic ? ).

Another thing we are just going to have to always disagree on. You have no clue who I am or what I am about , my wife and kids do & that's what matters to me , so we will have to leave it at that.

 

[Spark]

I fail to see how that first statement and second statement don't contradict each other , either way you spin it you are supporting. But that's way off topic ( this thread still have a topic ? ).

Another thing we are just going to have to always disagree on. You have no clue who I am or what I am about , my wife and kids do & that's what matters to me , so we will have to leave it at that.

I guess you fail to understand nuance. There's black & white, and shades of grey. Lying is black and white. Repeatedly lying & doing it for years is very black & white. There's no shades of grey when your government military record & the results of a lawsuit contradict the repeated claims you make.

Calling one superficially similar knife a knockoff of another is a shade of grey. Made in China is not the same as Made in the USA (or handmade by a custom maker for that matter). AUS8 is not S30V. Plastic is not Micarta. Making claims that you are offering one, while actually providing the other (or billing that they are the same) would be just as despicable as saying you are a combat vet with special operations experience when in reality you were a buck private AWOL chapter case in prison.

If you think that one equals the other, then you wholeheartedly endorse the actions of Mick Strider & others in their years of deception, dishonesty, etc. Say what you will about Lynn Thompson, but making a superficially similar product is nowhere near as bad as directly lying and continuing to do so after getting busted.

Again, where do you draw the line, John? What knockoffs do you endorse? Have any 1911's that aren't Colts?

 

[John T Wylie Jr]

Have any 1911's that aren't Colts?

Just one ( the other 5 , 6 or 7 are indeed Colts ) , this other one - it's a Para , but the frame is wider , and it's made in Canada , so it's different by your standard