Super Steels vs Regular Steels

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May I ask who have done the heat treat? Do you have details about the protocol used?

I don't. It was a special project of Nexus knife that was developed for Lionsteel. But the heat treat was so expensive that Lionsteel couldn't produce it and make a profit. I think about 70 were made. A few were sent to dealers, where the list price was $700.

Somewhere there's a video of Italians chopping rocks in half with this blade. I don't speak Italian, but they were clearly marveling over the lack of edge damage after chopping up rocks.

Here's what I do know:

This Centurione, 180 mm long blade thickness 7 mm has been developed by exploiting (but not limited to) the experience gained with the Caio.
For this reason, some very important construction choices have been made. The thickness in the wire zone was increased by 0.5 mm (0.7 to 1.2), the type of construction is always full tang but the end of the tangle has a different design to favor the reverse socket (useful though In a few cases), to be used to beat and to improve the detachability of the handle.
The latter is monolithic in Miso 1, a glass-based material such as G10, G11, Nema Fr 4 and Nema Fr5, but it has no problems with flaking (which is already very low for the materials mentioned) and is naturally more gripping .
Improved ergonomics, increasing the grip of the grip of the grip, eliminating the groin on the back (held by some, but not all, annoying and unhelpful) and removing the boss of the screws.
Compared to the Caio, the wider blade and the weight reduction of the end of the tails allowed to advance the center of gravity to improve the effectiveness of chopping.
The tip has been modified, rendering it more effective for any punching (even for wood carving).
The steel remained the modified A8, already used on Nexus Caio and Tito. Tempered at 59hrc. For the Centurion, however, more thermal treatments have been made to ensure even greater reliability.
Relaxation treatment performed after the various workings, before the hardening.
The latter, as with the other models, was made in vacuum ovens with forced-off (which, however, ensures a sufficient cooling rate to prevent the precipitation of chromium carbides K1 or K2).
Triple fracture (also in this case as for Nexus Caio and Titus) to exploit the precipitation of secondary carbides, transform all residual austenite into recovered martensites and have optimal eliminations of residual stresses.
The pieces have also been placed in the oven in such a way as to allow homogeneous heating for each specimen.
Particular mention should also be made of the prototype studies to observe the most stressed areas.
The traslation from google traslator, I'm not sure is really perfect...
 
I tested another "conventional" 3V chopper from another maker on the forum and it chipped. It was much worse than D3V from Nathan. Bluntcut did a custom reheat treat on that blade and it turned into a powerhouse performer, exceeding D3V in performance.
This is interesting . . . and someone on this forum named Bluntcut charlatan ?
 
I don't review knives and I don't predict which knife is best for any individual. But we can figure out which steel, heat treatment, edge geometry, sharpening, etc. variables affect different tasks. The better our knowledge becomes the more variables we can understand and the more variables we will add.
In General Knife Maker s Discusion forum you ask for samples of steel for test .You received samples with description of protocol used for HT that samples of steel . How you can be sure that protocol was done exactly like description ? Do you know what equipment was used by the sender of sample ?
 
In General Knife Maker s Discusion forum you ask for samples of steel for test .You received samples with description of protocol used for HT that samples of steel . How you can be sure that protocol was done exactly like description ? Do you know what equipment was used by the sender of sample ?
How can we be sure about anything?
 
Here's a link to the video:

I second the opinion that A8mod is a great steel, maybe the best for a hard use knife, and Fredrik Haakonsen’s choice for his survivals and choppers. Given the access he has to state of the art heat treatment equipment and his vast knowledge about steel and knives, I sincerely doubt anyone heat treats A8mod better than him.
 
well theres another factor, and that is Hon San mai or "real san mai" where the lamination goes soft steel or iron core welded to blade steel and then the sides getting a medium steel. Most alledged san mai is just 1095 and 15n20 sides for etching with a single piece of edge material for looks. this isnt true san mai being the side material is required to be soft or medium material. (for the purposes of increasing toughness, durability and abosrbing shock not ragging on you wonderful artists here just going with the mechanical approach). it is possible to overcome the limitations presented by a steels lack of durability and toughness. Another thing is alloying content will provide its own hardness and abrasion resistance in the case of powder metallurgy where the metal is basically 20% or more alloy and less iron isolated and distributed evenly throughout the material, compared to common steels which has 3% in the form of linked alloy. My conjecture is that it isnt required to go as far as the same 60 rhc, you can get away with a softer quench hardness and rely solely on your vanadium to do the job. Hardned steel has an rhc of 60? vanadium and chrome and tungesten have 70+ by themselves hardened or unhardened in the steel. this can make hardness estimates very confusing to measure. just attempting to offer a different perspective. Everyone is going to promote what they like to use competitively, trying to look at things from the material standpoint and not backing my own team here.

My personal favorite for combat knives is still 3v with its BS toughness while still boasting very reliable edge retention. But that comes from being a soldier and breaking everything I touch.
Despite this comment probably having occurred in some prior reply, the only way I believe a knife blade can "shuffle the cards" and improve toughness/ductility while retaining high HRC value is to use a laminated steel - that is, sandwich a high wear resistance cutting layer between softer steel layers having superior ductility. My experience is with Morseth knives and Cowry X Damascus (in reality, three layers, outer layers being softer decorative Damascus steel) knives built to order by Ichiro. Yes, Cowry X had to be treated more delicately when field dressing and butchering - or dropping - than my Morseths.

My Cowry Xs were gifted to my nephew and his three boys. My Morseths were wedding gifts to my younger step daughter and her husband (along with a Brunton Geo 5010 transit). Were I to begin acquiring outdoorsman's knives again, I would buy three Morseths with laminated steel blades, shaped as I prefer - and stop! They are probably the most useful compromise among, wear resistance, toughness, ductility, and sharpenability of any knife made today. Only two minor problems: maintenance requires more time; and cost. I have Dozier Sisu knives that may be comparably functional while requiring less stringent maintenance, but I'm probably too old to use them enough to confirm either way.


Hope there is something useful in the mishmash.
 
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I think the term "super steel" may have been coined by Mercedes. I remember around 1998 being at a Mercedes test drive event. And they were describing the beams in the doors as a "super steel" being 300% stronger then avg steel. Sorry probably doesn't add to the convo but I think marketers will borrow from other sources.
 
"I think the term "super steel" may have been coined by Mercedes. I remember around 1998"......

It was in use in knife articles before that. I recall 154cm and ATS 34 and then later Spyderco's 440V being called "super steel". I've read some posts on BF that state 440C was the original super steel but I don't recall that term being used for 440C though it was one of the most popular steels with custom makers. The term was more of a name for hyping a steel and not something describing a powder steel as came later. When S30V was introduced it was called "super steel"

Joe
 
As I quoted in the article it’s at least as old as 1978.
 
I have hardness tested only one laminated steel knife, one of the Morseths my newly weds received. The test was done with a portable HRx tester by a friend who ran a tool & die welding shop. Test was run only atop the center layer as that was all that interested me. Test was three cycles along two inches of center lamination just forward of guard. Test results were HRC61, 62, 61 in that order. At the time I was disappointed the number was not in the 63-64 range. After years of use, dissatisfaction disappeared. And I noticed no difference or advantage with the Cowry X damascus knife I used (used one "Safe Queened three") except Cowry X needed resharpening much less often.

This judgment is not precisely accurate because basis thickness for Morseths is slightly less than .187 inch while Cowry X blades were just less than .200 inch. And Morseths had slight double hollow grind while Cowy X blades were flat grinds.

well theres another factor, and that is Hon San mai or "real san mai" where the lamination goes soft steel or iron core welded to blade steel and then the sides getting a medium steel. Most alledged san mai is just 1095 and 15n20 sides for etching with a single piece of edge material for looks. this isnt true san mai being the side material is required to be soft or medium material. (for the purposes of increasing toughness, durability and abosrbing shock not ragging on you wonderful artists here just going with the mechanical approach). it is possible to overcome the limitations presented by a steels lack of durability and toughness. Another thing is alloying content will provide its own hardness and abrasion resistance in the case of powder metallurgy where the metal is basically 20% or more alloy and less iron isolated and distributed evenly throughout the material, compared to common steels which has 3% in the form of linked alloy. My conjecture is that it isnt required to go as far as the same 60 rhc, you can get away with a softer quench hardness and rely solely on your vanadium to do the job. Hardned steel has an rhc of 60? vanadium and chrome and tungesten have 70+ by themselves hardened or unhardened in the steel. this can make hardness estimates very confusing to measure. just attempting to offer a different perspective. Everyone is going to promote what they like to use competitively, trying to look at things from the material standpoint and not backing my own team here.

My personal favorite for combat knives is still 3v with its BS toughness while still boasting very reliable edge retention. But that comes from being a soldier and breaking everything I touch.
 
What’s the science behind his heat treatment process?
Science ? Science is changes every day .What yesterday was right today it is not .And here is one proof ..... https://share-ng.sandia.gov/news/resources/news_releases/resistant_alloy/
Another thing about science ...many things are discovered by single one mind/human without science education ...do not underestimate the power of the mind even for illiterate man !
Now , about Bluntcut work and science .... Have you looked at the results he get and the tests he make with steel ? I would like to see someone from Science world to do something and to get the same or better results then Bluntcut ?? Come on Science , offer better or at least the same results in the same steel bluntcut use ??????????????? Come on Science , with the help of the books make something better then Bluntcut ?
 
What’s the science behind his heat treatment process?
One more thing ..... Science / Larrin says that cobalt/when is present in steel/ have nothing with rust resistance in steel .I say that M2 steel rust twenty times more than M35 HSS steel ....and I can proof that immediately !? And only difference between M2 and M35 is that in M35 was added cobalt .... ????
 
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As a blacksmith I tend to experiment with steels forging laminating ect in the quest for a suitable or better sword steel, a big part of that process is taking 2 foot long stock of material sharpening a 4 inch section on the end of that steel to paper cut standards...

and then taking those edges of the hardened steel against each other, razor edge to razor edge averaging 20 inches of leverage. Most steel sucks at this test.

you dont even want to know what happens to 1095 at all.
 
One more thing ..... Science / Larrin says that cobalt/when is present in steel/ have nothing with rust resistance in steel .I say that M2 steel rust twenty times more than M35 HSS steel ....and I can proof that immediately !? And only difference between M2 and M35 is that M35 was added cobalt .... ????
tungsten, cobalt and vanadium, especially vanadium rust like crazy without a decent amount of molybdenum or chromium, chrome is most common but makes steel brittle.
 
As a blacksmith I tend to experiment with steels forging laminating ect in the quest for a suitable or better sword steel, a big part of that process is taking 2 foot long stock of material sharpening a 4 inch section on the end of that steel to paper cut standards...

and then taking those edges of the hardened steel against each other, razor edge to razor edge averaging 20 inches of leverage. Most steel sucks at this test.

you dont even want to know what happens to 1095 at all.

Well, I can't speak for others, but I can't say I'd want to know, because it's an irrelevant data point for how almost anyone would ever use 1095. I certainly would not use a knife in 1095 to cut down a steel tree, or try to baton another knife.
 
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