Super Steels vs Regular Steels

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Natlek said:
Science ? Science is changes every day .What yesterday was right today it is not .And here is one proof ..... https://share-ng.sandia.gov/news/resources/news_releases/resistant_alloy/
Another thing about science ...many things are discovered by single one mind/human without science education ...do not underestimate the power of the mind even for illiterate man !
Now , about Bluntcut work and science .... Have you looked at the results he get and the tests he make with steel ? I would like to see someone from Science world to do something and to get the same or better results then Bluntcut ?? Come on Science , offer better or at least the same results in the same steel bluntcut use ??????????????? Come on Science , with the help of the books make something better then Bluntcut ?
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Science is a way to explain observations
If bluntcut or any one else has great results with their heat treat there is a reason behind that. And this can be explained by science

Furthermore his results should be replicated by other sources
 
Revolverrodger said:
Science is a way to explain observations
If bluntcut or any one else has great results with their heat treat there is a reason behind that. And this can be explained by science

Furthermore his results should be replicated by other sources
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And what if science can not explained that ? What if during his HT protocol happens something that science does not know yet ? But result he get are extraordinary ? I think you understand my point ?
For example, Larrin may try to achieve the same results with AEB-L steel ,his father have are lot experience with that steel ? And then he can scientifically tested that steel with HT protocol of Bluntcut and then we all can see what is what .......?
 
Natlek said:
That his father has all the necessary equipment and can replicate HT protocol from Blutncut
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Than I would hope that they try to replicare these results and look at the micrographs of the steel
Would be interesting

Can you link to the post where Bluntcut describes his HT protocol?
 
Ah yes... but if you try to buy a katana 90% of what you see on the market IS basically just pattern welded 15n20 and 1095 or 1095. and if youre going to forge a sword you have to realise that a requirement of the design is to survive blade on blade contact.

so what iv been doing is testing steels versus 1095 to find out whats better and that later with documentation will go with the sword I make.

which if we are talking super steel versus normal steel, Awkwardly the super steel isnt as fragile
 
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Joseph Gardner said:
Ah yes... but if you try to buy a katana 90% of what you see on the market IS basically just pattern welded 15n20 and 1095 or 1095. and if youre going to forge a sword you have to realise that a requirement of the design is to survive blade on blade contact.

so what iv been doing is testing steels versus 1095 to find out whats better and that later with documentation will go with the sword I make.
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Is that right ? So far I thought that they are blocking opponents with spine of katana ? I think I saw somewhere original old japan katana with lot of mark on spine from edge of opponents katana ? So if that is true we have contact of hard edge on soft spine ?
 
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Mo2 said:
I wasn't able to find it but..
Probably in here
https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/heat-treatment-crystal-weaving-foundation.1409721/

Someone ended up telling me elsewhere... They let it heat up enough to let everything come into solution and quench in a modified salt bath then deep cryo in ln2... Or something like that. But I don't really know cause 34 pages of broken English was too hard to read through.
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I think that it was there :thumbsup: Now imagine how I fill when I read that broken English with MY broken English :eek: Main reason why I never don t try that HT is because I never full understand it :(
 
Natlek said:
I think that it was there :thumbsup: Now imagine how I fill when I read that broken English with MY broken English :eek: Main reason why I never don t try that HT is because I never full understand it :(
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I would assume that he could simply describe the steps: temperatures time etc
 
Natlek said:
And what if science can not explained that ? What if during his HT protocol happens something that science does not know yet ? But result he get are extraordinary ? I think you understand my point ?
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If that's the case then I imagine many scientists would love to work on it. New experimental results, with no current explanation? That's something you can really work with! Learning how something works, that nobody else understands? That motivates a lot of scientists. (It's also the kind of thing which can make a reputation. That also motivates a lot of scientists - sometimes the same ones.)

Of course the results would have to be independently verified and, ideally, replicated. Material would have to be available for examination. If the results really are that extraordinary then it might take a while to investigate. There are no guarantees of simple or easy answers when discovering something new. But assuming someone succeeds in understanding exactly how those extraordinary results happen then we'll know something we've never known before! That truly would be wonderful.

...Mike
 
I applaud his efforts, but his methodology and conclusions need a lot of....refinement?
 
Natlek said:
Is that right ? So far I thought that they are blocking opponents with spine of katana ? I think I saw somewhere original old japan katana with lot of mark on spine from edge of opponents katana ? So if that is true we have contact of hard edge on soft spine ?
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Good swordsmanship and practice says block on the spine, gaurd or the lower thicker part of the weapon or slash the bevel of their weapon to deflect it, (part of parrying and countering) but lets be realistic here when people are trying to kill each other with metal weapons that edge will come in contact with hardened metal, not just another blade edge but possibly armor or other metal parts of any other weapon, thats just assuming a sword on sword. Point being a blade must account for metal contact, spring steals do not live up to the match, even with a hamon. just as well If someone is trying to kill you, you will end up with edge on edge contact it just happens. there are alot historical accounts of blades being "clashed". swords with excess damage on the blade edge, and accounts of a blade being used so much it "lost its temper.; the same way a truck axel or spring does.

The creator of a blade is PERSONALLY RESPONSIBLE for getting it right. but a quick google search will give you cheap imitations with 0 features to allow a blade to survive, be it soft core, soft spine, proper tapering along the spine or proper lamination. then there is the argument that modern spring steel aka 1095 is SO much better because of modern metallurgy. These weapons are advertised as high quality and battle ready.

Most people who boast about simple steel simply do not want to get into the difficulty of finishing tool steel or specialized steel which is harder to make, they say things like... "easy to forge, easy to put an edge on it, easy to polish" None of those qualities are found in quality steel but isnt that just another way of saying; "Im to lazy to actually make anything good"?

It gets even worse when trying to price a realistic weapon that has an iron core or properly welded steel. sorry for the rant, just I dont think spring steel makes "the cut". tool steel by all means isnt as bad its ment for drilling or cutting other metal, but you still need to add in the necessary features so the weapon survives. Its an obligation of the weapon maker to do so.
 
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CPM heat treats mechanically do a few things, Ile reference the phase theory here or (phase diagram). most steels dont have one so you have to roughly figure out where your steel phase shifts on your own, some batches have acceptable variants that change those boundaries so you cant always trust what someone else says for a heat treatment, its a good starting place though. they usually recommend a heat treat somewhere at 2k-2300 holding for 50-2.5 hours its not precise referencing?. What this does is bring the metal to the state of carbon dissolution and brings the metal back above the Critical line and holds it long enough that when it drops, it falls through the bottom bainitic and partial martensite area. when tempering austenite reforms into potential bainite. Any carbon chains dissolve in the steel and redistribute themselves as evenly as they can get, often finding homes in the form of bond able material away from any potential carbides, making the metal less brittle.

it's not new either, long heat with carbon dissolution is about 1000 years old and if that doesnt exite you try holding temp in a charcoal forge to get carbon absorption and dissolution for hours and then water quench it. Its suicide for me with a charcoal forge but I could immagine that those of you with your nice heat treat ovens could pack a bag with charcoal powder and keep it at those temps.
 
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danbot said:
I've read through a ****load of his threads and can't make heads or tails of it.
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Agreed.
Some of his HRC readings are crazy high.
Maybe he is a steel wizard and we have yet to understand.
But it's likely hes just baffling us with BS.

CPM S30V at 65+HRC seems completely insane. As well as some other steels and hardness readings. Hopefully someday a better explanation will be brough to light, and some actual science can be done.
 
ShannonSteelLabs said:
Agreed.
Some of his HRC readings are crazy high.
Maybe he is a steel wizard and we have yet to understand.
But it's likely hes just baffling us with BS.

CPM S30V at 65+HRC seems completely insane. As well as some other steels and hardness readings. Hopefully someday a better explanation will be brough to light, and some actual science can be done.
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65+ is obtainable with any steel but really going for hardness of that sort really makes an object fragile. could just be the vanadium throwing readings off, cpm steel is like having marbles in clay, hit one of those marbles even in the soft state and itl throw readings off. did he say what method was used to test hardness?
 
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