Bad Survive! Deserves A Permanent Post In The Hall Of Shame

The worst part of this whole spiral is rereading my posts in the archive from a decade ago where I fangirl’d for Guy and Ellie.
 
Gee that sounds bad in a number of ways...
 
I will say, I'm not surprised a new person or someone who hasn't experienced a bunch of the direct competition to survive would be wow'd. The first time a dude who's carried gas station knives holds an actual well made knife, it's eye opening. I get it.

Now throw the survive knife on the same table an compare them to the competition and you'll see dozens of other companies that cnc their blades are well made and neck and neck for tolerances and finish. Meh.

I'm more impressed with carothers machining ability and designs. Guy didn't make squat, he's not even a machinist. He's literally the assembler 🤣
 
Quiet said:
It's because there are dumb people out there who will collect things like that, believing they will have value some day to other dumb people who collect dumb stuff. What? Don't believe me? Consider this: there are people to this day who spend massive amounts of money collecting Nazi memorabilia. When people tell you who they are, believe them.
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Like
 
lumi said:
Just finished the video from that HST guy out of curiosity. Jotted down some notes as I listened for anybody else who was curious too. (I think this is accurate, but could've heard something wrong.)

$75k for 20-30%, putting $375k valuation on the high end.
Initial check for $30k, got CNC equipment as collateral.
Survive had 0 in business account, negative in personal account.
HST was told by mutiple previous business parters to not do it.
Guy would disappear throughout the day.
$48k to $50k a month in bills, $1k in knives a week going out.
Company debt is in the hundreds of thousands, personal in the tens.
$500-600k worth of unfinished knives in stacks.
3.5k preorders unfinished.
Some people have $5k in outstanding orders.
HST was literally locked out from the shop.
Doesn't think he personally deserves the anger, but he understands it
Trying to make ammends, but wants people to know most people are SOL.
Calls Guy a savant, claims he could spot a 1 thou difference (human hair 3 thou).
Guy is so broke he just gave his dog away, but is taking a backpacking trip through East Asia.
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What costs a business of this size 50k A month?
 
Hypothetically, of course.
 
Quiet said:
I candidly feel you are giving Guy too much credit. There have been plenty of instances in the decade or so of this Scumbag!Knives debacle where it was clear that whenever he didn't want to work on a run of preordered knives, he'd head to the drawing table and come up with a new design to take a million plus in preorders against and make some of those instead. People were lefting waiting on knives he never had any intention of finishing, and as far as I can see, there's nothing to applaud. Perhaps years ago, back in his early days he actually made a sincere effort to try to make good knives, but I think the road to his ultimate downfall he's experiencing now happened the moment he still had unfinished knives on his bench but discovered that his idiot fanbase* would take him at his word and pony up hundreds of thousands more dollars for "preorders" just on his say so and some pics he put together.

Once he realized that all he REALLY had to do in order to keep the scam going was make some of the knives he owed people (so he could spend the huge majority of the cash he took in on his personal bills/purchases/etc.), while continuously running preorder after preorder, and even selling seconds which in actuality were knives that hadn't even been made yet (the purest example of fraud in this whole sordid mess, honestly), and when he realized how few people would actually challenge him for refunds, the grift became super easy for him. I do not feel bad for anyone who got rooked by the guy, sorry I just don't. The word was out about him years ago, and still a lot of people defended him right up until shinyedges shinyedges and a couple of others gathered all of the postings proving the fraud from their own sub here, presented it to Spark, the owner of the site, and got their sub shut down. Even then, in this very thread, we have had defenders still pop up to defend poor ole Guy who's just doing the best that he can, and if you'd just be patient, he's definitely going to get your kni....

LOL JAYKAY, his house of cards has finally burnt down since the fanbase of people he was able to scam effectively dried up. Guy is a fraudster and everything bad that happens to him from this point forward in his life is well deserved. Nothing he's done is worth applauding.

Also, as others have said, plenty of companies make great large fixed blades that can be used hard that don't have the issues Guy had. Guy's issues were because he doesn't know how to make knives. He never did. All he was good at was bolting parts together that were made by actual makers who were contracted to do that work. I mean, if he knew how to actually grind a blade, the whole Magnacut issue his dumb ass had been bleating about would never have been an issue! Hell, so many times he used the excuse of "We're still waiting for the sheathes for the GSO whatevers to come in, please be patient!". So really, Guy didn't have the issues that you describe having, because it sounds like you actually do the work. You're cooking at home, dude was Doordashing McDonalds, huge difference.



* Idiot too harsh a word? Not really sure what else can be said when from the beginning Guy made it clear that these knives were all being made by him personally (due to his incredibly high standards LAWL), and so even a moment of critical thinking being done when he released preorders for new knives would have had smart people wondering "Hmmmm....if dudebro is going to start work on those new model knives....who's making the knife he still owes me?". Folks missing this simple and glaring issue over and over and over again (which so many of his ardent defenders did)...whelp, if the shoe fits., you know?
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Sorry I don't have a 'like' button - this post is 100% spot on. Kudos to BF, Shinyedges & Quiet for not being quiet (yeah I know, you prob get that alot ;)

I don't mind being called an idiot when the shoe fits. Unfortunate timing that I was just gearing up to get back into 'outdoorsy' activity/camping from having been active in my youth when S?K were opening their pre-order GSO's - totally oblivious to the fact that they still had outstanding orders! I know ignorance is not a defence... but OMFG! The fact that 'just enough' knives went out to people who would publically endorse/post/video them, speaks to me as the difference between unfortunate/unexpected business challenges and outright pre-meditated fraud designed to catch people like myself who 'researched' (poorly), without the expertise of this forum.

Guy and Ellie deserve everything bad that is (hopefully) headed their way.
 
The leading edge of knife discussion... not just a clever slogan
 
DRG80N said:
Sorry I don't have a 'like' button - this post is 100% spot on. Kudos to BF, Shinyedges & Quiet for not being quiet (yeah I know, you prob get that alot ;)

I don't mind being called an idiot when the shoe fits. Unfortunate timing that I was just gearing up to get back into 'outdoorsy' activity/camping from having been active in my youth when S?K were opening their pre-order GSO's - totally oblivious to the fact that they still had outstanding orders! I know ignorance is not a defence... but OMFG! The fact that 'just enough' knives went out to people who would publically endorse/post/video them, speaks to me as the difference between unfortunate/unexpected business challenges and outright pre-meditated fraud designed to catch people like myself who 'researched' (poorly), without the expertise of this forum.

Guy and Ellie deserve everything bad that is (hopefully) headed their way.
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A like for your post as well, and yes, I get that part about not exactly living up to my namesake from time to time. 🤣

You know, I was on a roll with that post, but feel that engaging some critical thinking of my own, and realizing a few factors of difference between myself and others; it makes me realize I was doing some inevitable splash damage and perhaps being a bit unkind. I'll retract the statement that I made about not feeling bad about anyone who got rooked, or that they should have been able to see through things immediately. You're a good example of what I'm saying, and I should have remembered and/or been cognizant of that. There are people who join BF every day who know almost nothing about knives, the knife companies, the players, who's in, who's a fraud, and who's reputable, and so on. So, I think that folks like you get a pass. Coming to Bladeforums for the first time is probably overwhelming if you don't know any of this history or follow the industry like many of us do. And hey, I DO remember the early days of my own joining here, when Survive! Knives was still able to sell their story, and people DID get knives and those knives were pretty good for the early days. I do remember all of that. So, if a new member came in around that time, and saw all of the positive threads about them, it would probably be fairly easy to cast threads disparaging them aside, I get that. Hell, people were still talking positively about the knives and making excuses for the company up to as little as a year ago. Insane to me, but it was happening because some people were still getting those "milk along" knives.

What makes me different from some folks is that I'm generally a pragmatic skeptic. Incidentally, I have spent roughly 24 years working in the Cybersecurity industry where this is a good trait to have. Therefore, when I see endless positive gushing about a company, product, good, or service, I'm the one who's immediately Googling "(Insert thing here) issues/controversy/etc.)" to see what I can find that's being lovebomb gaslight glossed over by fans who see it as their duty to go on the defense because they're hoping it will guarantee that they get their knife/item/good/service. When I joined up in 2013(!!) I remember finding my way to the S!K sub before too long, and seeing the same excuses already being given that, over the years, we all came to realize was their go-to canned defense. That's literally how far back it started. I recall seeing even then Ellie making posts talking about how they were "updating processes" and "turning things around" and "going to be getting all backorders quickly delivered due to these new processes, just you wait!". We then continued to see these same excuses so many times over the years. The only real difference (and ultimately what helped get them kicked out of here) is that the "veil" of supporters running cover for them got smaller with every major excuse thread event so that eventually the game was revealed. At that point, the effort was put in, and they were promptly bumrushed outta here.

In any case, I know there's little hope that anyone who was defrauded by these scum shysters will be made whole, but hopefully it makes folks open their eyes a little wider and do some due diligence when they see a company promising the moon for pennies.
 
Until Guy is in jail, I don’t think I’ll celebrate the “demise”. He’s a huckster, shoot it seems that people are actually interested in paying him for his “IP” and lessons learned.

I doubt that he has ever really faced much punishment or repercussions. Restitution and 11/29 would probably do him some good. If only he would’ve thought about selling black cards, instead of doing preorders.
 
Quiet said:
A like for your post as well, and yes, I get that part about not exactly living up to my namesake from time to time. 🤣

You know, I was on a roll with that post, but feel that engaging some critical thinking of my own, and realizing a few factors of difference between myself and others; it makes me realize I was doing some inevitable splash damage and perhaps being a bit unkind. I'll retract the statement that I made about not feeling bad about anyone who got rooked, or that they should have been able to see through things immediately. You're a good example of what I'm saying, and I should have remembered and/or been cognizant of that. There are people who join BF every day who know almost nothing about knives, the knife companies, the players, who's in, who's a fraud, and who's reputable, and so on. So, I think that folks like you get a pass. Coming to Bladeforums for the first time is probably overwhelming if you don't know any of this history or follow the industry like many of us do. And hey, I DO remember the early days of my own joining here, when Survive! Knives was still able to sell their story, and people DID get knives and those knives were pretty good for the early days. I do remember all of that. So, if a new member came in around that time, and saw all of the positive threads about them, it would probably be fairly easy to cast threads disparaging them aside, I get that. Hell, people were still talking positively about the knives and making excuses for the company up to as little as a year ago. Insane to me, but it was happening because some people were still getting those "milk along" knives.

What makes me different from some folks is that I'm generally a pragmatic skeptic. Incidentally, I have spent roughly 24 years working in the Cybersecurity industry where this is a good trait to have. Therefore, when I see endless positive gushing about a company, product, good, or service, I'm the one who's immediately Googling "(Insert thing here) issues/controversy/etc.)" to see what I can find that's being lovebomb gaslight glossed over by fans who see it as their duty to go on the defense because they're hoping it will guarantee that they get their knife/item/good/service. When I joined up in 2013(!!) I remember finding my way to the S!K sub before too long, and seeing the same excuses already being given that, over the years, we all came to realize was their go-to canned defense. That's literally how far back it started. I recall seeing even then Ellie making posts talking about how they were "updating processes" and "turning things around" and "going to be getting all backorders quickly delivered due to these new processes, just you wait!". We then continued to see these same excuses so many times over the years. The only real difference (and ultimately what helped get them kicked out of here) is that the "veil" of supporters running cover for them got smaller with every major excuse thread event so that eventually the game was revealed. At that point, the effort was put in, and they were promptly bumrushed outta here.

In any case, I know there's little hope that anyone who was defrauded by these scum shysters will be made whole, but hopefully it makes folks open their eyes a little wider and do some due diligence when they see a company promising the moon for pennies.
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Definitely need a Like/Love button.
Totally no offence taken from your original post - It's an enjoyable read when you're 'on a roll'. My dad was a metallurgist so learning about knives, usage, edge retention, carbides and hardness was very much a fun part of my youth - but (showing my age) those were the days when leaf springs from a car were good knife stock and there was a dial tone on the internet. Enter stage left, 20+ years building a 'city life' career in medtech, and you are totally on the money that I now know almost nothing about the knife companies, the players, who's in, who's a fraud, and who's reputable. With the medical industry, I'm probably on the other end of the (gullibility) spectrum believing in innate ethics, transparency, honesty etc.
Oh well, thankfully I've now found a healthy degree of skepticism along with Bladeforums and the people that make it great (The leading edge of knife discussion - not just a slogan: nice one David! :).
Silver-lining that I'm 100% sure building my collection (heirlooms to-be now with a little man whom I hope to impart a passion towards nature/outdoors) from the knifemakers here will result in an infinitely better end-result than chasing up/listening to ScumbagKnives!
 
All that money coming in, and even with the debt he has, you'd think Guy'd be able to afford a new hat.

sMjNoWd.jpeg
 
shinyedges said:
Survive! Knives were good, but not not head and shoulders over their competition.
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I can agree with that. I’ve held one before and thought “well, this is nice, I guess”. I think my point was that makers have their own perspective.

I’m sure Creely and others aren’t mistaken when they say he wasn’t hitting the price point he should have. I’m also sure that’s why preorders were always coming in. S!K was going to undercut competitors with low prices. I think we see how that played out for him.
 
I’m wondering how that fancy lifetime warranty is going to work now, what with S!K going out of business and all that.
 
shinyedges said:
I will say, I'm not surprised a new person or someone who hasn't experienced a bunch of the direct competition to survive would be wow'd. The first time a dude who's carried gas station knives holds an actual well made knife, it's eye opening. I get it.

Now throw the survive knife on the same table an compare them to the competition and you'll see dozens of other companies that cnc their blades are well made and neck and neck for tolerances and finish. Meh.

I'm more impressed with carothers machining ability and designs. Guy didn't make squat, he's not even a machinist. He's literally the assembler 🤣
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Carothers Knives are amazing and from his post they develop custom heat treatments to maximize performance. There’s a lot of time and money that goes into running coupons, making test knives, and breaking things.

Planterz said:
All that money coming in, and even with the debt he has, you'd think Guy'd be able to afford a new hat.

sMjNoWd.jpeg
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Anyone else see the irony in his shirt?
 
Triton said:
What costs a business of this size 50k A month?
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I was confused by that too, and I listened to that part a couple times to make sure I heard it correctly.

If I were to guess, I'd say that was probably the worst month they had, and he acted like it was like that every month. But who knows. Not even they do, apparently, since basic accounting seems to have been lacking.
 
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